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Is amber ambergris?

post #1 of 19
9/28/07 at 10:33pm
Thread Starter 
I know that ambergris is a by product of a sperm whales vomit, but when colognes contain amber notes are they referring to ambergris or is this some other olfactory variation?
Thanks for the help
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post #2 of 19
9/28/07 at 10:35pm
I am 99% sure that amber is a natural mineral that is found within the earth itself.


From Wikipedia.org:
Amber is the common name for fossil resin or tree sap that is appreciated for its inherent and interesting mixture of colours and it is widely used for the manufacture of ornamental objects. Although not mineralized, it is sometimes considered and used as a gemstone. Most of the world's amber is in the range of 30–90 million years old. Semi-fossilized resin or sub-fossil amber is called copal.
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post #3 of 19
9/28/07 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnba View Post

I know that ambergris is a by product of a sperm whales vomit

are u serious?

Where does Creed get all its Ambergis from?

gupts
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post #4 of 19
9/28/07 at 10:48pm
A lot of perfumes with ambergris notes do not contain actual ambergris. Amber and Ambergris notes are completely different.
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post #5 of 19
9/28/07 at 10:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupts View Post

are u serious?

Where does Creed get all its Ambergis from?

gupts

Yes i am serious...ambergris is a very precious substance and apparently extremely expensive...i dont know where creed getstheirs from.

I understand that amber is fossilized tree sap, but i didnt think it had a smell! I mean...diamond does not have a smell, but then again i have seen "ebony" listed as a note...i dont understnd how minerals(other than maybe sulfur) have smells....i am not a chemistry major, but i didnt relize that stones and rocks had scents. So what exactly is AMBER then as far as scent is concerned...i know that prada pour homme is also called amber so i will asume that it has that as a major note, but idont like it.
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Ambergris occurs as a biliary secretion of the intestines of the sperm whale, and can be found floating upon the sea, or in the sand near the coast. Because giant squids' beaks have been found embedded within lumps of ambergris, scientists have theorized that the whale's intestine produces the substance as a means of facilitating the passage of hard, sharp objects that the whale might have inadvertently eaten. Ambergris can be found in the Atlantic Ocean; on the coasts of Brazil and Madagascar; also on the coast of Africa, of the East Indies, The Maldives, mainland China, Japan, India, Australia, New Zealand and the Molucca islands. However, most commercially collected ambergris came from the Bahama Islands, Providence Island, etc. It is also sometimes found in the abdomens of whales.

This is from wikipedia

According to osmoz.com amber does refer to various olfactory variations including ambergris, ambrette, and clary sage...i guess i answered my own question. ha ha
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post #6 of 19
9/28/07 at 11:34pm
Amber is a very hard wood resin, so it does have a smell. Like pine resin or maple syrup - just much more refined.

Ambergris ("grey amber") used to be valued as an alternative source of amber-like scent. It's a bit more marine and animalic though.

Ebony is a hardwood, not a mineral.
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post #7 of 19
9/29/07 at 12:25am
Thread Starter 
thanks alkman...i was wondering what ebony was. Sometimes i see notes that just confuse the hell out of me and i consider myself fairly well educated in the world of fragrance...though i still have a lot to learn and am very curious about the chemistry and ingredients that make cologne and all the wonderful variations that exist...i think that is why i got into frags in the first place....thanks for the posts everyone
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post #8 of 19
9/29/07 at 12:32am
Ambergris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambergris
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post #9 of 19
9/29/07 at 12:32am
Ambergris can fetch around $10,000 per KILO! This in part will account for the cost of fragrances, particularly when considering the cost of the raw material and the refining process involved.
Its found along the tidelines (usually just above the line where the seaweed has been deposited after a storm).
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post #10 of 19
9/29/07 at 1:11am
Here's some good discussion on ambergris with comments by Luca Turin:

http://www.profumo.it/perfume/natura...ambergris.html
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I haven't smelled natural ambergris myself, but those who have say that mature high grade ambergris smells "sweet and tart/anise-like".
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post #11 of 19
9/29/07 at 4:05am
...I hope this does not add to the confusion. Amber, myrrh and frankincense are different tree resins, and somehow related to year zero of our time (if I remember that properly).

(1) Amber (aged tree sap,resin, hardened) is not a mineral, and also found on beaches, particularly on the sandy shores of the Baltic sea (jewelry).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber

(2) Ambergris is commonly referred as "amber" in perfumery and should not be confused with yellow amber, which is used in jewelry." ... n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfume - 121k Perfume - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(3) Wholesale Amber Oil, Organic Amber Oil, Amber Essence Oil, Amber ...
"Due to its unpleasant aroma, it is not used in aromatherapy or perfumery". Amber Resin. Is Eden Botanicals' Amber Essence Oil pure? Amber Essence Oil made by ..." www.edenbotanicals.com/about_amber_oil.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
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post #12 of 19
9/29/07 at 4:09am
Many perfumes get their amber notes from synthetics or from natural ingredients other than ambergris. Two of the most common natural sources are ambrette seeds, which have a vanilla-like odor, and labdanum, also called gum cistus or rockrose, which is the closest other natural ingredient to the scent derived from sperm whale ambergris.

The whale product is fetid in the natural state, and like other animal notes, must be greatly diluted before it acquires a pleasant aroma.

Also, amber from trees has no resemblance in odor to ambergris.
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post #13 of 19
5/28/08 at 8:04pm
so when a scent is noted as very ambery or an amber scent does it refer to more the labdanum ambergris type note or is the amber fragrance usually based more on the tree resin type amber scent. I understand the difference between the two terms but when somebody says oh that is an amber fragrance is it closer to one or the other type of "amber" that being the animalistic amber or the plant resin "amber"
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post #14 of 19
5/28/08 at 8:58pm
When I say "ambery," I think I mean the tree resin, prominent in frags like Gucci Envy, Jovan Sex Appeal, KL Lagerfeld, and Prada (all men's versions). Am I wrong? A strong ambergris frag does not sound too appealing to me. The chemist on the web page zztop mentioned described it as "humid, earthy, fecal, marine, algoid, tobacco-like, sandalwood-like, sweet, animal, musky and radiant.” I don't know if this is somewhat similar to what I get from Horizon, which is humid, earthy, and marine, but I can do without the fecal, animal, and tobacco (I'll go with Bogart PH when I want tobacco), so I'm not too jealous.

;-)
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post #15 of 19
5/28/08 at 9:34pm
Well, Gucci envy has an incense note in it, I'd say frankincense, and Prada's predominant note is Myrrh, so I think you are misusing the term ambery for 'incensey', Bigsly. Not sure about the Jovan or Lagerfeld though.
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post #16 of 19
5/29/08 at 2:38am
I think the majority of the time, in perfumery, a reference to amber means ambergris, be it real or synthetic. I find little reference to tree sap / amber being used extensively in perfumery, while ambergris holds a place of huge significance, right along with civet/musk. As you probably know, civet has an even less savory origen (anal glands of cats), and certainly smells somewhat offensive until diluted, just like ambergris.

Again, I'm sure most is synthetic in most applications, but the smell is meant to be ambergris, which is often referred to simply as amber in historical perfumery.
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post #17 of 19
5/29/08 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupts View Post

are u serious?

Where does Creed get all its Ambergis from?

gupts

It's true.
When I gave my wife her bottle of Royal Water, I explained to her how it had been made in honour of Princess Diana, and I said to her that I hoped she enjoyed the great smell of whale spew.
Renato
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post #18 of 19
5/29/08 at 8:18am
Quote:
so when a scent is noted as very ambery or an amber scent does it refer to more the labdanum ambergris type note or is the amber fragrance usually based more on the tree resin type amber scent.

The petrified pine tree resin that is called amber is not used in fragrances. So when the term amber is used in a fragrance description it can mean many things none of which have anything to do with petrified tree resin.

Amber in perfumery could refer to ambergris or it could refer to various accords of other gums, resins, spices and vanilla.

Here is one vendors take on the term:
http://www.edenbotanicals.com/essentials1.html#amber
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post #19 of 19
5/29/08 at 8:22am
I noticed that in orientals the note 'amber' is usually NOT of the ambergris type.

I doubt this is of any help of course...
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