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Gents, get those frags in the fridge!

post #1 of 44
10/12/07 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
After the thread with the pictures of everyone's enviable refrigerator collections, I was also inspired to put my, in comparison with only 20 some, humble collection in the the refrigerator (who needs food?) as well ... It could be my *complete* imagination but the first blast of fragrance has across the board been more intense and more satisfying than when kept at room temperature. Fragrances which I love but with which I've had longevity issues now seem more intense initially (such as Td'H, Black XS and CdeG Vettiveru) and have seemed to have more staying power on my skin. Perhaps it has something to do with the more dramatic temperature change once applied to warm skin... whatever the case, I'm very happy I moved the cold cuts out of the drawer and crammed my stash in there instead. I highly recommend this as it's made a big difference in the whole experience. The added bonus of the crisp cold initial blast is icing on the cake.
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post #2 of 44
10/12/07 at 10:33pm
I don't know about longevity, but I too find most fragrances smell nicer initially when refrigerated, with the exception of the Orange Vertes. I know it's heresy to Some around here, but that's how I do's it...
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post #3 of 44
10/12/07 at 11:02pm
I would keep them in the fridge but I don't because.....I live on the 3rd floor of my parents home (doing post secondary, trying to save money), and the fridge is on the 2nd floor in the kitchen. When I get out of the bathroom in the morning, I hate going downstairs, into the fridge (moving the watermelon and eggs out of place) just to apply my SOTD then run back up, bit inconvenient.

I could keep a portion in the fridge and have the ones I use more often in my closet, but I have a very tiny collection, I wear them all frequently.
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post #4 of 44
10/12/07 at 11:18pm
Thread Starter 
Well now that GICaesar has mentioned that some find it heresy to do so, I've been looking around to find other opinions. It seems similar to coffee or wine or any "fine" acquisition... the opinions vary a great deal. I was just reading a REALLY long thread on Now Smell This and someone quoted LeLabo (famous for giving their fragrances a one year only shelf life) as saying refrigeration is best for long term storage. I guess I should have titled this thread "Refrigeration... thoughts?" I still stand by my original statement though I wouldn't dream of putting my coffee in the fridge because of moisture. Other opinions welcome I also just read on Sephora's website that, according to their fragrance expert, refrigeration does not extend the life of a fragrance and that it will actually disrupt the delicate balance of oils in perfume and eau de parfum concentrations. They -- also -- say that if stored out of light at room temperature, a fragrance will last 6 months to a year (seems absurd), so who knows? I might be making room for the eggs again after all.
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post #5 of 44
10/13/07 at 12:19am
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I asked a Guerlain manager who told me that putting fragrances in the fridge can actuallly damage the juice and create a sediment. They suggested normal room temperature outside of light as the best storing.
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post #6 of 44
10/13/07 at 5:08am
  • kbe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guerlain View Post

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I asked a Guerlain manager who told me that putting fragrances in the fridge can actuallly damage the juice and create a sediment. They suggested normal room temperature outside of light as the best storing.


We are talking what here...a temperature difference of say, 25F from ambient room temp to refrigerator storage? That assumes a refrigerator constant temp of about 50-55F and not as blastingly cold as it could be set to and an ambient room temp that averages about 75-80F degrees.

My understanding of the volatiles in fragrance is that the colder the temperature, within reason, the less unwanted chemical reaction will take place and less volatility of components such as alcohol, which should only expend itself as a carrier upon spray, splash or roll-on, and not unduly into increasingly larger volumes of captive air in the container of the juice as the fragrance level is lowered with use.

It seems to me that cold storage should enhance quality preservation by slowing down heat induced chemical breakdown of components. And any precipitates from that cold should reenter solution when the juice is warmed/shaken.

Any thoughts?
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post #7 of 44
10/13/07 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guerlain View Post

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I asked a Guerlain manager who told me that putting fragrances in the fridge can actuallly damage the juice and create a sediment. They suggested normal room temperature outside of light as the best storing.

I'm not an expert or chemist, but as kbe said, it's normal when you have something dissolved in something else (ie fragrance oils dissolved in alcohol) that when you lower the temperature, it lowers the amount of solute (the oils) that the solvent (in this case the alcohol) can have dissolved in it - that creates sediment as the undissolved substance solidify. But then, when you raise the temperature again, the alcohol is more capable of dissolving more oil, and the sediment disappears.

I've actually seen this process with some of my lutens. In the fridge a couple of them (particularly the Haute Concentrations) devellop a tiny it of powder on the bottom. Leave it out of the fridge for a few minutes and it's gone.

All I can say is that most of my collection smells great being in the fridge, and since I started doing that I've never had a single fragrance gone bad, whereas before it did used to happen.

I think when you have a zillion fragrances you need a fridge cause you're not using the bottles fast enough. But even if I only had three bottles I'd still refrigerate them I just like them that way
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post #8 of 44
10/13/07 at 6:37am
I think you should put them in a fridge, and set the fridge to 13-15 centigrade - which is not too far from what room temperature in central Europe used to be in the 19th century (17-18). I can't imagine constant 22-24 degrees being good for frags, much less storing them in a bathroom where taking a shower briefly pushes it up to 30 or more.

I read about the half to one year shelf life in a perfume book as well (the otherwise very reliable H&R guide), but from empirical experience this is plain nonsense.
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post #9 of 44
10/13/07 at 7:22am
The Osmotheque House of Perfumes in Versailles (developed by Jean Kerleo - Jean Patou's nose for 30 years) recommends temperatures of approx. 50 f for most fragrances and 40 f for pure citrus. Osmotheque preserves many of the rarest fragrances in the world.
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post #10 of 44
10/13/07 at 8:33am
As a solution composed sometimes of natural oils, good fragrances would seem to 'prefer' to be kept in a cool (10c) environment. I'm of the opinion that a dedicated wine cooler, which typically operates in that perfect 9-11c range, is the way to store fragrances. At a price of around $100 USD, it seems like cheap insurance against valuable colognes going rancid.

As far as storing in a typical fridge (2-5c), when I received my first authentic Creed (GIT) I put it in the fridge overnight because I decided I didn't want my new prized frag to ever go bad.

By morning when I went to wear it, the oils and fats (ambergris?) had congealed too much and wouldn't flow through the sprayer. The juice came out from the tube/nozzle junction and made a wonderful smelling mess all over my hands (which of course, I proceeded to wipe all over my neck and chest, not to waste a drop).

Once I kept that GIT at room temperature the problem didn't repeat. This experience leads me to think that typical refrigeration temperatures are too low for fragrances, at least the top-shelf ones that have significant proportions of natural oils.

I'm moving across country soon, but once I get settled I may invest in the aforementioned wine chiller and see how it works with my collection.

We love our frags too much to let them die prematurely!
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post #11 of 44
10/13/07 at 9:02am
Well, low temp is good to preserve your fragrance because it helps slow down the moleculer proces just like almost in any other things that you want to preserve, but bare in mind that just like a wine or some other foods, if you want to get the real taste of it, you have to bring it to the temperature where it functions best. Just like drinking a cold red wine, applying a cold fragrance doesn't work good. The reaction time of the upper, middle and lower notes does not function as they are synchronised on room temperature. because of sudden temp. difference upper and middle notes react faster because they have the tendancy of reacting faster. On the other hand the lower notes would react slower and because of that it would last longer. My advice would be; if you want to experience the opening and middle note phase of the fragrance, then you should bring the frahranc eto room temperetare before applying it, by taking it out the fridge like one hour before. But if you want that basenotes should last longer then no need to do that. Years ago I was able to test the fridge reaction of some fragrances. I had the time and the supply for that when I was involved in a cosmetic-fragrance shop, but now I don't have the time and supply for it. What I can remember is that some fragrances reacted rapidly on the opening phase but they were slow on the following phases and this made them last longer, but with some fragrances there was a bit gap between the phases and first you assume that it is done, but it was becoming alive again but slowly. I can remember that some fragrances smelt different than when they were kept in the room temperature. Depending on the alcohol and water amount ih the fragrance I don't advice to go lower than 50F/10C That is if you want to keep the fragrance for a very long time. Otherwise I would not advice to go lower than 60F/15C if you intend to use the fragrance time to time.
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post #12 of 44
10/13/07 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytebuster View Post

My advice would be; if you want to experience the opening and middle note phase of the fragrance, then you should bring the frahranc eto room temperetare before applying it, by taking it out the fridge like one hour before.

That would defeat the purpose of keeping it in a fridg. You would be causing the frag to experience frequent and more intense temperature fluctuations which is probably almost as harmful as storing it exposed to light and/or heat. If you're that anal about experiencing the "proper" drydown, get some 3-5 ml atomizers, fill them with your frags, and keep them sitting out at room temperature while storing your full bottles in the fridg.

If you're going to keep your frags in a fridg, keep the temp at 50-55 F, not the 38-45 temps in most food refrigerators. At that temp., I've never had a problem with my Creeds or any other frag having sediment and I've not been able to perceive any noticable change in the drydown.

Keep in mind that any frag industry "expert" has a good reason for telling you that cold will damage the juice. If you're preserving it, it will most likely be longer before you buy more. They don't want that.
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post #13 of 44
10/13/07 at 2:29pm
  • kbe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytebuster View Post

Well, low temp is good to preserve your fragrance because it helps slow down the moleculer proces just like almost in any other things that you want to preserve, but bare in mind that just like a wine or some other foods, if you want to get the real taste of it, you have to bring it to the temperature where it functions best. Just like drinking a cold red wine, applying a cold fragrance doesn't work good. The reaction time of the upper, middle and lower notes does not function as they are synchronised on room temperature. because of sudden temp. difference upper and middle notes react faster because they have the tendancy of reacting faster. On the other hand the lower notes would react slower and because of that it would last longer. My advice would be; if you want to experience the opening and middle note phase of the fragrance, then you should bring the frahranc eto room temperetare before applying it, by taking it out the fridge like one hour before. But if you want that basenotes should last longer then no need to do that. Years ago I was able to test the fridge reaction of some fragrances. I had the time and the supply for that when I was involved in a cosmetic-fragrance shop, but now I don't have the time and supply for it. What I can remember is that some fragrances reacted rapidly on the opening phase but they were slow on the following phases and this made them last longer, but with some fragrances there was a bit gap between the phases and first you assume that it is done, but it was becoming alive again but slowly. I can remember that some fragrances smelt different than when they were kept in the room temperature. Depending on the alcohol and water amount ih the fragrance I don't advice to go lower than 50F/10C That is if you want to keep the fragrance for a very long time. Otherwise I would not advice to go lower than 60F/15C if you intend to use the fragrance time to time.


I agree that frags kept at lower temperatures would tend to 'open up' slower, but once sprayed or rolled on the body/clothes the warmup time has to be almost instant, considering the large surface area of the sprayed juice in particular interacting with ambient room temps and normal body temperature. I would imagine no more than 10-15 seconds at most for it to acheive temperature parity with whatever it is on, discounting evaporative cooling from the alcohol going into vapor phase.
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post #14 of 44
10/13/07 at 2:58pm
I side with the camp that feels it is best to keep fragrances at room temp in a dark place. If the fragrance was meant to be kept at fridge temps, the SA would be pulling it out of the fridge at the counter, place it in a transport styrofoam cooler so you could get it home and into it's proper environment. Also, most solutions are injured if they are cooled, warmed, then cooled and so on. As a long time lurker, I have read some many people rhetorically telling people to get their frags in the fridge. I know this is a huge mistake and therefore will not treat my coveted juices in this mannor. However, feel free to do what you want with yours.
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post #15 of 44
10/13/07 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post

I side with the camp that feels it is best to keep fragrances at room temp in a dark place. If the fragrance was meant to be kept at fridge temps, the SA would be pulling it out of the fridge at the counter, place it in a transport styrofoam cooler so you could get it home and into it's proper environment. Also, most solutions are injured if they are cooled, warmed, then cooled and so on. As a long time lurker, I have read some many people rhetorically telling people to get their frags in the fridge. I know this is a huge mistake and therefore will not treat my coveted juices in this mannor. However, feel free to do what you want with yours.

Well, Frederic Malle keeps their fragrances cooled in a fridge, but I guess that is just plain wrong now.
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post #16 of 44
10/13/07 at 3:25pm
  • kbe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post

I side with the camp that feels it is best to keep fragrances at room temp in a dark place. If the fragrance was meant to be kept at fridge temps, the SA would be pulling it out of the fridge at the counter, place it in a transport styrofoam cooler so you could get it home and into it's proper environment. Also, most solutions are injured if they are cooled, warmed, then cooled and so on. As a long time lurker, I have read some many people rhetorically telling people to get their frags in the fridge. I know this is a huge mistake and therefore will not treat my coveted juices in this mannor. However, feel free to do what you want with yours.


I would bet money that the juice in an average 1/2 full spray bottle of fragrance, if taken from a fridge and used and replaced, would not drop even 5F degrees during that process, unless it was left out for minutes. As for it being a huge mistake to keep frags cold
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post #17 of 44
10/13/07 at 4:22pm
Has Luca Turin said anything about this subject? Being a biophysicist I think he would have a more definitive opinion.
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post #18 of 44
10/14/07 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
Well speaking of the SA's... they often pull the fragrances off of heated lighted display shelving so we can't go on how they are stored in the store.
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post #19 of 44
10/14/07 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pluran View Post

The Osmotheque House of Perfumes in Versailles (developed by Jean Kerleo - Jean Patou's nose for 30 years) recommends temperatures of approx. 50 f for most fragrances and 40 f for pure citrus. Osmotheque preserves many of the rarest fragrances in the world.


A little more carefully reading and deliberate pondering over what is posted is really called for here.

Pluran's point--since it needs to be spelled out--is that those charged with preserving the perfume heritage of the Western world, lead perfumers who would/should know a thing or two about fragrances, specify categorically that fragrances, for optimum shelf life, must be kept at the above mentioned temperatures. Furthermore, Osmotheque reduces the head space in the stored bottles every time some one is given a sample to study by filling the resultant air in the container with nitrogen.

Now that's optimum conditions. It doesn't mean that if you don't store your fragrances under such conditions they'll all go bad. Some of them will, eventually, some of them won't. There are many factors that come into play, like benzophenone, for example, an additive which acts as a sunscreen and protects fragrances from light, but to suggest that storing fragrances in a refrigerator will harm the fragrances or that is not necessary is just plain misinformed. Speaking of just plain misinformed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scentologist View Post

I side with the camp that feels it is best to keep fragrances at room temp in a dark place. If the fragrance was meant to be kept at fridge temps, the SA would be pulling it out of the fridge at the counter, place it in a transport styrofoam cooler so you could get it home and into it's proper environment. Also, most solutions are injured if they are cooled, warmed, then cooled and so on. As a long time lurker, I have read some many people rhetorically telling people to get their frags in the fridge. I know this is a huge mistake and therefore will not treat my coveted juices in this mannor. However, feel free to do what you want with yours.

That's got to be the most naive thing I've read in a long while. Sorry, but your "scientific explanation" isn't far behind. The last people one should turn to for advice or enlightenment are people who sell fragrances. With rare exceptions, they are usually always misinformed or not informed.

There are a number of long threads in which I and a number of other Basenoters cover this very topic in minute, excruciating detail. The search function really needs to be used more regularly before proffering homespun naive "truths" dressed up as a fact. There's a lot of sensible, informed discussion in the Basenotes archives. It's really a matter of looking before you leap.

scentemental

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post #20 of 44
10/14/07 at 9:46am
Hi everyone,
I am worried about the fact of my fragrances decomposing, especially becasue I can't use them up in less than 3 or 4 years, and the wardrobe just keeps on growing. I actually have a little fridge conviniently placed in my room, however the highest temperature it is capable of doing is 4 to 6 degrees C°. Which I think is way to low, at least according to the_good_life, who recommends a temperature of 13 to 15 centigrade.
Therefore my question is if I should put the fragrances in the fridge, or will the low temperatures actually damage my fragrances.
Thanks beforehand for any help
optimus
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post #21 of 44
10/14/07 at 10:23am
My humble opinion...

Most of us actually use our fragrances, and aren't planning on storing rarities for decades, so does it really matter?

If you have something rare, then I'd think you'd want to keep it somewhere dark and cool where it wouldn't be disturbed. Otherwise, if we're talking about stuff you use everyday, I wouldn't get all caught up in worrying about it.

ps - if you do have something truly rare, I would consider donating it to the Osmotheque for proper storage....but I'm sure most of us wouldn't even have the opportunity to own something so precious.
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post #22 of 44
10/14/07 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofresh View Post

My humble opinion...

Most of us actually use our fragrances, and aren't planning on storing rarities for decades, so does it really matter?

If you have something rare, then I'd think you'd want to keep it somewhere dark and cool where it wouldn't be disturbed. Otherwise, if we're talking about stuff you use everyday, I wouldn't get all caught up in worrying about it.

ps - if you do have something truly rare, I would consider donating it to the Osmotheque for proper storage....but I'm sure most of us wouldn't even have the opportunity to own something so precious.

No a bad general philosophy to hold to sofresh, and eminently sensible, but I tend to be a little more careful based on the experience of 30 years of owning fragrances and owning what some would consider far too many of them (over 500 at last count). There are definitely some brands that will deteriorate more quickly than others: Chanel, Annick Goutal, Amouage, Jean Patou are a few that come to mind, so special care needs to given to those fragrances. Fragrances that aren't boxed need special attention. Many niche fragrances that use delicate natural essences and tend not to use preservatives need special care.

Also, chypres tend not to do as well as other fragrances. It's the oakmoss and the patchouli, two ingredients that need special attention and don't hold up well over long periods, especially with exposure to light. Lavender doesn't generally do as well. So while the "don't sweat the small stuff" works for most people, it's a different proposition if you have hundreds of fragrances and are a serious collector and aficiando, and there are many of those kinds of people on the board that need more considered, carefully differentiated information. What's the alternative dumb everything down to general principles? That will help some not others. I like to have all the facts at my disposal when making decisions; that's not a bad expectation to have. I try to post with that in mind also.

scentemental
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post #23 of 44
10/14/07 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nthny View Post

Well speaking of the SA's... they often pull the fragrances off of heated lighted display shelving so we can't go on how they are stored in the store.

Also, its in their interest to make you think it'll only last a short time - that way you use it up really fast and buy a new one!

I haven't read the detailed thread that scentimental is talking about (will search for it, unless someone wants to provide the link first) but I'd tend to agree with him - usually, one would only worry about a solution getting damaged if you were taking it to the freezing point or below. That's when actual structural and chemical changes take place. Cooling above that temperature just slows down the molecules.

Since alcohol freezes at at somewhere around -115 celsius (depending on which kind of alcohol) it doesn't seem like a big worry! Though I guess the oils can freeze, and there's often water mixed in with the alcohol.
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post #24 of 44
10/14/07 at 12:08pm
For additional information:

http://community.basenotes.net/showt...=185261&page=2
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post #25 of 44
10/14/07 at 12:39pm
Phew - life can be complicated...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

No a bad general philosophy to hold to sofresh, and eminently sensible, but I tend to be a little more careful based on the experience of 30 years of owning fragrances and owning what some would consider far too many of them (over 500 at last count). There are definitely some brands that will deteriorate more quickly than others: Chanel, Annick Goutal, Amouage, Jean Patou are a few that come to mind, so special care needs to given to those fragrances. Fragrances that aren't boxed need special attention. Many niche fragrances that use delicate natural essences and tend not to use preservatives need special care.

Also, chypres tend not to do as well as other fragrances. It's the oakmoss and the patchouli, two ingredients that need special attention and don't hold up well over long periods, especially with exposure to light. Lavender doesn't generally do as well. So while the "don't sweat the small stuff" works for most people, it's a different proposition if you have hundreds of fragrances and are a serious collector and aficiando, and there are many of those kinds of people on the board that need more considered, carefully differentiated information. What's the alternative dumb everything down to general principles? That will help some not others. I like to have all the facts at my disposal when making decisions; that's not a bad expectation to have. I try to post with that in mind also.

scentemental
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post #26 of 44
10/14/07 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guerlain View Post

Phew - life can be complicated...

Or it can be simplistic by sticking to one designer and pretending that's all there is to fragrances.

scentemental
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post #27 of 44
10/14/07 at 1:58pm
Stop that idiotic tone, please, Mr. Perfect. My remark was a friendly one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

Or it can be simplistic by sticking to one designer and pretending that's all there is to fragrances.

scentemental
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post #28 of 44
10/14/07 at 2:06pm
I'm a convinced fridge user for five years. I use a big household refridgerater at the lowest setting possible. Even this big fridge I bought for a fraction of the retail price on eBay.
Due to the fact that it's completely full with fragrance bottles, the temperature is not under 10 degrees celsius throughout the year. In the sommer months when the room gets hot I regulate in regard to the conditions.

The only problem is my collection has grown immensly over the last months and there's no chance to store everything the best way possible. I would need one or even two more household refridgeraters at the moment, so I have to choose which fragrances go in and which won't.

I can't confirm about an improvement of longevity of a scent on skin, but it's possible some fragrances need some extra minutes to "awake", but that's nothing important at all, at least not to me.

What I can confirm is a DEFINITE improvement in terms of quality. Yes! Take a bottle that is about to turn, which begins to smell off and rancid right in the fragile topnotes, put it for two weeks in the fridge and ideally leave it there, you won't believe the results. I have seen it dozens of times. Fragrances that smelled just off could be used like there never was a problem. Sure, it can also be that some bad juice has been lurking in the spray mechanism and the whole impression gets mixed up therefor, but I doubt it. My 100ml Yves Rocher bottle of Vanille Bourbon (bought on eBay) was horror, I recall thinking to myself "who can wear this?" horrible! After two weeks in the fridge and twenty sprays later, it's one of the finest vanillas out there and the bottle is still 98% full. I'm sure the seller sold it with the arguement that it has turned and can't be used anymore. This is just one example, I have seen it with dozens of other fragrances mainly bought on eBay: Parfum d'Habit, Ambre Précieux, an old Guerlain (vintage) Vetiver bottle, some citrus fragrances (they are the most fragile IMHO) and some 80's stuff.

Q: Why did they go off in the first place?
A: Wrong storage - wrong storage and wrong storage!
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post #29 of 44
10/14/07 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.creed View Post

I'm a convinced fridge user for five years. I use a big household refridgerater at the lowest setting possible. Even this big fridge I bought for a fraction of the retail price on eBay.
Due to the fact that it's completely full with fragrance bottles, the temperature is not under 10 degrees celsius throughout the year. In the sommer months when the room gets hot I regulate in regard to the conditions.

The only problem is my collection has grown immensly over the last months and there's no chance to store everything the best way possible. I would need one or even two more household refridgeraters at the moment, so I have to choose which fragrances go in and which won't.

I can't confirm about an improvement of longevity of a scent on skin, but it's possible some fragrances need some extra minutes to "awake", but that's nothing important at all, at least not to me.

What I can confirm is a DEFINITE improvement in terms of quality. Yes! Take a bottle that is about to turn, which begins to smell off and rancid right in the fragile topnotes, put it for two weeks in the fridge and ideally leave it there, you won't believe the results. I have seen it dozens of times. Fragrances that smelled just off could be used like there never was a problem. Sure, it can also be that some bad juice has been lurking in the spray mechanism and the whole impression gets mixed up therefor, but I doubt it. My 100ml Yves Rocher bottle of Vanille Bourbon (bought on eBay) was horror, I recall thinking to myself "who can wear this?" horrible! After two weeks in the fridge and twenty sprays later, it's one of the finest vanillas out there and the bottle is still 98% full. I'm sure the seller sold it with the arguement that it has turned and can't be used anymore. This is just one example, I have seen it with dozens of other fragrances mainly bought on eBay: Parfum d'Habit, Ambre Précieux, an old Guerlain (vintage) Vetiver bottle, some citrus fragrances (they are the most fragile IMHO) and some 80's stuff.

Q: Why did they go off in the first place?
A: Wrong storage - wrong storage and wrong storage!

As I said before, I don't claim to be an expert on this subject. According to http://www.fragrance.org/ what you say here is true, but only for cologne-concentration. To quote:

"Is it true that fragrance can be kept in the refrigerator for a refresher pickup?

Yes, but only colognes and toilet waters. Perfumes should not be exposed to extreme cold or heat because either may upset its delicate balance."
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post #30 of 44
10/14/07 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guerlain View Post

As I said before, I don't claim to be an expert on this subject. According to http://www.fragrance.org/ what you say here is true, but only for cologne-concentration. To quote:

"Is it true that fragrance can be kept in the refrigerator for a refresher pickup?

Yes, but only colognes and toilet waters. Perfumes should not be exposed to extreme cold or heat because either may upset its delicate balance."

Yes I can confirm that. Pure perfume, extrait or essential oils don't belong in there. It's all about the alcohol.

Then again I wouldn't mind putting a fragrance bottle with 80% vol. in the freezer as well. It can't freeze because of the high alcohol percentage. Even Vodka can be stored in the freezer and a lot just do so, but actually I think the freezer might be too cold for a EdT or EdC bottle. 10 to 15 degrees celsius or centigrade is ideal. I once asked myself how long would a brand new, fresh bought bottle survive when exposed in an african or american desert. Days? Weeks? There's a big temperature difference from night and day that sure has an immense effect ....
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post #31 of 44
10/14/07 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone I started this post just by saying that it was my experience, by following some of the pics I'd seen here, that my beloved lighter fragrances seemed more intense in spectrum, right out of the bottle. Especially Terre d'Hermes. I think, as I noted in another response, that there are, as with wine, coffee, or even CARS for that matter, a million fans, and a million different storage techniques. I'm always surprised when a guy just writes a simple thing and someone ends up getting mad. Weird. Anyway... So, I'll enjoy my "frags in the fridge" (written like that to conserve space in the title line... what sins I've committed), especially my brand new (bought yesterday) bottle of Sur Le Nil from Hermes. It smells sparkly and refreshes even more with the cold sensation. Sue me.
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post #32 of 44
10/14/07 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.creed View Post

What I can confirm is a DEFINITE improvement in terms of quality. Yes! Take a bottle that is about to turn, which begins to smell off and rancid right in the fragile topnotes, put it for two weeks in the fridge and ideally leave it there, you won't believe the results. I have seen it dozens of times. Fragrances that smelled just off could be used like there never was a problem.

That's really strange - I've noticed that also about two seperate bottles, but I decided that my mind was playing tricks on me because I can't figure out scientifically how putting something in a fridge would reverse the deterioration of top notes going bad! How does that work?
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post #33 of 44
10/14/07 at 4:34pm
Keeping my fragrances on the shelf in the dark is good enough for me. On the one hand, yes, fragrances can be a form of art, but on the other hand, they're only fragrance.
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post #34 of 44
10/14/07 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

No a bad general philosophy to hold to sofresh, and eminently sensible, but I tend to be a little more careful based on the experience of 30 years of owning fragrances and owning what some would consider far too many of them (over 500 at last count). There are definitely some brands that will deteriorate more quickly than others: Chanel, Annick Goutal, Amouage, Jean Patou are a few that come to mind, so special care needs to given to those fragrances. Fragrances that aren't boxed need special attention. Many niche fragrances that use delicate natural essences and tend not to use preservatives need special care.

Also, chypres tend not to do as well as other fragrances. It's the oakmoss and the patchouli, two ingredients that need special attention and don't hold up well over long periods, especially with exposure to light. Lavender doesn't generally do as well. So while the "don't sweat the small stuff" works for most people, it's a different proposition if you have hundreds of fragrances and are a serious collector and aficiando, and there are many of those kinds of people on the board that need more considered, carefully differentiated information. What's the alternative dumb everything down to general principles? That will help some not others. I like to have all the facts at my disposal when making decisions; that's not a bad expectation to have. I try to post with that in mind also.

scentemental

As I said, we should all do what we feel comfortable with. You are not the average consumer and user of fragrances...I'm sure you have an exceptional collection that is for preserving, but for the average guy with a few bottles here and there, there's no reason to get uptight about what's right and what's not.

I'll quote myself by saying "Most of us actually use our fragrances, and aren't planning on storing rarities for decades, so does it really matter?" If you don't fall into that category, then the statement obviously doesn't apply to you. "Most" doesn't mean "all", so you shouldn't think I was placing you in the realm of us common folk who don't have 30 years of experience collecting fine fragrances.
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post #35 of 44
10/14/07 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofresh View Post

As I said, we should all do what we feel comfortable with. You are not the average consumer and user of fragrances...I'm sure you have an exceptional collection that is for preserving, but for the average guy with a few bottles here and there, there's no reason to get uptight about what's right and what's not.

I'll quote myself by saying "Most of us actually use our fragrances, and aren't planning on storing rarities for decades, so does it really matter?" If you don't fall into that category, then the statement obviously doesn't apply to you. "Most" doesn't mean "all", so you shouldn't think I was placing you in the realm of us common folk who don't have 30 years of experience collecting fine fragrances.


I don't care what anyone does or not, but even with 30 fragrances, I know I have some bottles that get used quickly, and others that will take years before they'll be done, and by then they'll be going bad. Plus I buy most of my stuff used, which means it already has years of life taken off of it. And it gets really hot here in the summer 30-35 celsius, and I don't have (or want) air conditioning, and there are no cooler rooms than others.

I already had a couple of things start to go bad, and especially now that I have all these Lutens and Montales and Creeds, I just really feel like they should be refrigerated. If they go bad, it'll be a while before I can afford to replace them since my income is so patchy.

By now I prefer them refrigerated because the feel and smell is different too.
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post #36 of 44
10/14/07 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post

I don't care what anyone does or not, but even with 30 fragrances, I know I have some bottles that get used quickly, and others that will take years before they'll be done, and by then they'll be going bad. Plus I buy most of my stuff used, which means it already has years of life taken off of it. And it gets really hot here in the summer 30-35 celsius, and I don't have (or want) air conditioning, and there are no cooler rooms than others.

I already had a couple of things start to go bad, and especially now that I have all these Lutens and Montales and Creeds, I just really feel like they should be refrigerated. If they go bad, it'll be a while before I can afford to replace them since my income is so patchy.

By now I prefer them refrigerated because the feel and smell is different too.

Hey Caesar,

I definitely think keeping Creeds in the refrigerator is an excellent idea, especially if they come in the flacons, none of which I am convinced is air tight. In fact, yesterday I picked up a brand new 8.5 oz flacon of Santal Impérial from Neiman Marcus. It took them 5 weeks to get it in, but it finally came from the Paris store, no less, and it was in the new clear glass Creed bottle with the coat of arms everywhere. Brand spanking new, and unlike the one I ordered from Parfumsraffy and returned to Parfumsraffy two months ago it did not leak, but you could still smell the fragrance. If you can smell it, it must be coming from the bottle right? So much for air tight. BTW, the folks at Parfumsraffy confirmed, that according to their experience Creed flacons leaked more often than not.

My solution is to transfer all my Creeds from their flacons into 8 oz aluminum bottles--the ones that have the non-reactive coating; you can pick them up quite cheaply online, around a dollar a piece--and the half ounce that's left over into an atomizer for personal use. I had more trouble with Creeds and instability than any other house, except for perhaps the older bottles of Chanel men's fragrances, but once I started keeping them refrigerated, no problems at all.

I haven't had much experience with Montales or Lutens--that is I have never really kept them anywhere but inside my fridge--but I would imagine that they would certainly benefit from refrigeration, especially the Montales, which are based predominantly on more volatile natural essences.

I have to say, while I don't personally notice a significant difference with the way fragrances smell straight out of the fridge--I think kbe's account of how quickly they readjust is an eminently sensible one--I do like the feel of the cold spray on the skin. Very refreshing, especially right after a shower.

scentemental
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post #37 of 44
10/14/07 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post

I don't care what anyone does or not, but even with 30 fragrances, I know I have some bottles that get used quickly, and others that will take years before they'll be done, and by then they'll be going bad. Plus I buy most of my stuff used, which means it already has years of life taken off of it. And it gets really hot here in the summer 30-35 celsius, and I don't have (or want) air conditioning, and there are no cooler rooms than others.

I already had a couple of things start to go bad, and especially now that I have all these Lutens and Montales and Creeds, I just really feel like they should be refrigerated. If they go bad, it'll be a while before I can afford to replace them since my income is so patchy.

By now I prefer them refrigerated because the feel and smell is different too.

That's understandable if you've had things go bad...that's never actually happened to me. Like I said, to each their own...and if you like the way they feel & smell when cooled, then that's great.
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post #38 of 44
10/14/07 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentemental View Post

I have to say, while I don't personally notice a significant difference with the way fragrances smell straight out of the fridge--I think kbe's account of how quickly they readjust is an eminently sensible one--I do like the feel of the cold spray on the skin. Very refreshing, especially right after a shower.

scentemental

Actually I should clarify about refrigeration changing the smell - I just mean how it smells in the bottle, and as it's being sprayed. Once it's on, as kbe said it goes straight to body temperature in 5 seconds. It's just that if you smell the bottle in the fridge, the topnotes get very pronounced which makes sniffing the bottles more fun. Chypre Rouge is heaven out of the fridge.

Certain fragrances like Orange Verte smell worse out of the fridge - they get too sharp and lose their "living" feel. But again, once it's on the skin it's the same things. Other fragrances get muted when they're cold, like Ambre Sultan - I can barely smell it in the bottle at all when it's refrigerated, but my little 15mL vial that I cary around is really pungent in the bottle.
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post #39 of 44
10/14/07 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR View Post

Actually I should clarify about refrigeration changing the smell - I just mean how it smells in the bottle, and as it's being sprayed. Once it's on, as kbe said it goes straight to body temperature in 5 seconds. It's just that if you smell the bottle in the fridge, the topnotes get very pronounced which makes sniffing the bottles more fun. Chypre Rouge is heaven out of the fridge.

Certain fragrances like Orange Verte smell worse out of the fridge - they get too sharp and lose their "living" feel. But again, once it's on the skin it's the same things. Other fragrances get muted when they're cold, like Ambre Sultan - I can barely smell it in the bottle at all when it's refrigerated, but my little 15mL vial that I cary around is really pungent in the bottle.

Caesar,

You're a man after my own heart. Love the attention to detail. In your honor, I am going to sit down over the next few days and smell a bunch of my scents straight out of the bottle straight out of the fridge. It looks like I'll be in for a few surprises.

scentemental
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post #40 of 44
10/19/07 at 6:31pm
Ok some dumb questions but do you guys take the bottle out of the box when you put it in the fridge? Doesn't this expose it to more light? Also I can't have a fridge dedicated to perfumes so is it ok to put them in my regular fridge with my stinky foods? I've never tried putting my fragrances in the fridge but it seems to be that the majority think this is the way to go. Any advice would be helpful.
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post #41 of 44
10/19/07 at 8:42pm
I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure it's UV rays from the sun that damage your perfumes, not light from a bulb. Also, remember that your fridge light turns off when you close the fridge! I actually keep mine in a food fridge, but I make sure it's clean and have several arm and hammer baking sodas.

I did have some food get a little stinky once or twice, and I got scared about the fragrances (particularly ones that have to caps), but it really doesn't seem to affect them at all. I took a couple out to smell the next day to see if there was any food smell that I might not have noticed before, but there wasn't.

This is my experience anyhow.
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post #42 of 44
10/19/07 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azsmells View Post

Ok some dumb questions but do you guys take the bottle out of the box when you put it in the fridge? Doesn't this expose it to more light?

A few seconds of light periodically when you take food or the bottle out is not going to hurt the juice. I think keeping your frequent goto-s in the box in an enclosed area like a drawer, fridg, etc. is overkill. I only keep my backups in a box, the rest I just let stand naked in my fridg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azsmells View Post

Also I can't have a fridge dedicated to perfumes so is it ok to put them in my regular fridge with my stinky foods?

You may want to keep a box of baking soda in there to soak up the odors. I doubt you'll have to worry about the frags picking up any food smells but you may have to worry about your food picking up frag smells/taste. Food smells aren't going to get into sealed spray bottles but it could be a problem for stopper-type bottles - best to put them into an additional container (tupperware, etc.) or leave them out of the fridg.

I keep my frags in a mini-fridg with no food. Before making a few mods to the fridg, it would smell heavily of perfume whenever I'd open the door. Being in an enclosed area, the frag scents would just accumulate - which really isn't a problem if you're not storing food along side. Later I added a small 5v computer fan inside the fridg to circulate the air (to keep the temp more uniform throughout) and I also added a moisture absorber (damp rid) to keep the humidity low. I did this because I have a good stock of backups that I keep in their boxes and I don't want the boxes deteriorating due to moisture (refrigerator interiors are very humid). A pleasant side effect of the moisture absorber was that it also completely removed the scent buildup. My frag fridg now has no scent whatsoever when I open the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azsmells View Post

I've never tried putting my fragrances in the fridge but it seems to be that the majority think this is the way to go.

Normal fridges are too cold judging from the consensus here on BN and cited experts' recommendations. They probably won't damage your juice but may cause some temporary adverse affects like sediment or particle-separation. Maybe some other members have experienced good results (or at least not bad results) using a standard food fridg to store their frags.
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post #43 of 44
10/20/07 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOfTheSoul View Post

Has Luca Turin said anything about this subject? Being a biophysicist I think he would have a more definitive opinion.

As stated in an earlier posts, the Osmothèque is Versailles (directed by Jean Kerléo) maintains many of the world's rarest perfumes. The approximate temperatures they use are 10 degrees celsius (50 fahrenheit) for most fragrances, and 4 degrees celsius (39.2 degrees fahrenheit) for pure citrus.

I received this information directly from the people who manage the storage facility at the Osmothèque.

Regarding Luca Turin, all I could find is something from his 2005 blog. He's responding to someone about whether or not she should keep her citrus fragrance in the refrigerator:

"Tania, the Osmothèque in Versailles keeps them at 4 degrees C, and if that's good enough for Jean Kerléo, it's OK for me.
Posted by: luca turin | September 30, 2005 at 04:47 PM"
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post #44 of 44
10/21/07 at 1:41am
I don't keep my frags in a fridge nor do I intend to because its not important to me to do so. However, it is really hard to argue with the methods from the folks at Osmothèque.

TNMA
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