Old Lady?

For the past few years of reading perfume blogs and forums, and only surfacing to post quite recently, I have become more and more irritated by certain reviewers and posters who use old lady as an adjective to describe scents they dont like, coupled with other equally uncomplimentary terms like musty and stinky. Whether they are consciously or unwittingly ageist, Id like to issue a protest against, and make an appeal to those who throw these terms around so loosely.

In defense of my age group, those 60 and above, it is ironic that also used are terms like classic to describe those fragrances that have withstood the test of time. So why not use equal terms to describe those wearers of same?

I certainly dont refer to scents as teenaged body odor or pre-pubescent locker room funk or insipid teen if a particular perfume seems youthful, or too youthful for my tastes.

There are quite a few reviewers here at basenotes that do this but Im not just finger pointing here there are even more at MUA. It might be helpful if the reviewers posted their ages and signed themselves callow youth. No one here would accept blatant racism or homophobia they would be trounced quite quickly I believe, but the offensive language inextricably linked to those of us who are mature in age goes unchallenged. I had a classy mom who died in her 80s and a beautiful grandmother, who was close to 90 when she passed on and lots of other elder role models as a child and they set the standards for me in elegance and style. I couldnt wait to get older and be more sophisticated.

So now I am older. And yes, I like scents not necessarily designed for ingénues. But the over application of scent is a crime that has no age limits it is done by all and sundry from a wide range of age sets. Poor taste in perfume is also not age specific; neither is bad hygiene.

Perhaps it might be nicer if one just says I found the perfume to be too sophisticated or complex for my current stage of development Or it evoked a maturity I have not yet achieved perhaps Ill revisit it in 40 years, should I be fortunate enough to live so long.

I wish I could be here 50 years from now to read these boards, but that is unlikely. A gentle reminder that those of you who are younger will one day grow older, and hopefully others will be gentler with you.

Thank you Paul - the previous threads did not come up in my search.

Thanks folks. Am very heartened by your replies.

One of the things that attracted me to basenotes was the wonderful prose/poetry used to evoke scents - even those that some reviewers may eschew. Not just basenotes - I read now Smell This and Bois de Jasmin regularly - and those reviewers are masters of their craft - describing scents.

I am not arguing for censorship - I spent too many years as a radical broadcaster on Pacifica radio to ever condone the limiting of expression; fought for George Carlin to say certain 7 words on the radio; but as the foremost site on the web where those of us - old, young and middle - come to read, learn, and share about a mutual love of the art of perfume, we should I think attempt to expand our palette of adjectives. Particularly if some choices we make are more apt - and less hurtful. Am in accord with Beachroses - a thesaurus is not a bad tool to have.

I never realized how difficult it was to describe scents until I made an attempt on a rose forum a few years back to put into words the differences between and among various aromatic roses - which are described simply in certain catalogues as "fragrant" "moderately fragrant" or " little scent". I doubt any rosarians (the perfumistas of the rose world) would ever use "old lady" to describe the perfume of certain classic roses, which for whatever reason may not be the current fashion. Especially since many of us are well over 60 Many dowager roses have titles like "Empress" or "Duchess" or "Queen".

I applaud the time and efforts of those of you who have put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard to fill the database here with marvelous flights of wordplay to capture what is so elusive and subjective.

Write on!

Purplebird - your son rocks - in my estimation.

Kyra, we will have to see some pics of you doin' the tango - hmmmm - what scent will you wear?

I truly appreciate the welcome and comraderie here (though my checkbook is slimming as a result)

I laughed at your reference to Great Aunt Agatha - we all have/have known one of those, or the male equivalent, I think.

But what you stated was so on point- if there are personal associations - then describe them...we have such a love/hate relationship with scents, sounds...perhaps that is why perfume evokes music so often; the floodgates of memory open when triggered by a particular smell - or chord. I know for myself that I can only describe certain scents by referencing a jazz tune or a Bach cantata. Others stir darker emotions of despair, or lost loves, and regrets. As a young woman I would curl up in bed, apply a certain scent and play Billie Holliday's Gloomy Sunday over and over again, mourning a love affair gone sour. I still recoil when I catch a whiff of a man passing by wearing his signature, and that was 40 years ago.

BTW - I like that - "sizzling salsera" . I'll have to remember that when my arthritis has me predicting rain.

Too many responses over night to respond to specifically, point by point and this thread is moving towards closure probably, but I will stick to my original premise which is when coupled with adjectives like stinky, urine, mouldy (and a long list of other pejoratives I found last night when I googled old lady perfume), it is ageist. I stick to my guns on this one.

This society is ageist. The fact that older people use ageist terms about and in reference to themselves ( symptomatic of cultural constructions of what is or is not estimable) does not absolve us of the intelligent responsibility to be more careful when using certain terms. I am not trying to please everybody (the Bill Cosby quote will not respond more since that will take me way off topic)

I am pleasing myself by speaking up. I live by the slogan Silence = Death.

I love being 60. I love myself, my gray hair, my experiences and my perfumes most of which fall into the old-lady category according to my web surfing collection of comments and reviews Guerlains, Caron's, Patou's, Rochas, Myurgias. I choose to call them classics. Those of you who are content to use old lady as your limited descriptors so be it. Hopefully, some folks will think twice, and dip into longhand rather than shorthand catch-phrases in future discussions and reviews.

I dont use sexist terms or racist ones having born the brunt of them my whole life. I have educated myself about ageism, and have thankfully lived in other cultures where there is a completely different perspective on what old is or isnt. I love being considered an elder in my religious community and ethnic groups. I try to act accordingly it was pointed out by Leffleur that there are old fools. Hopefully, I am not one of them. People refer to young fools also. Perhaps fools without an age tag would be more appropriate.

PaulSC pointed out that this discussion has cropped up here on basenotes before, quite a few times, and MadScientist added links. Thank you again. I apologized for not having used the search function correctly, and spent sometime last night reading past comments, including those that were closed. One particularly interesting thread was:
Hurt Old Lady initiated by TDDanae
http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=187870

The fact that this crops up quite frequently, in some ways proves my point it does hurt or distress some members/readers, and is indicative of a rather laissez faire callousness for those who either ignore or dismiss the frequent plaints.

In the real, not cyber world, I am an applied medical cultural anthropologist specializing in HIV/AIDS, who happens to be currently teaching Womens Studies and Cultural Anthropology. Sociolinguistics - language its meaning, and the way we use words in a cultural context tells us a lot about people and how they view and treat or interact with others. I mention this because my academic discipline affects how I process what I read. Yes I love perfumes. Hence, Ive dived into basenotes. It would be quite easy to simply sit here and discuss what fragrance Im sampling, or wearing today without any sidebar comments at all. But would I feel comfortable about remaining mum? No.

This is an extraordinarily articulate online community, with a diverse demographic membership and few threads here limit themselves to simple discussions of top, middle and basenotes. Tastes in scents, clothing, literature, quotations, music, cars, shopping, dating, sexuality and sexual preference come into play here regularly since all are part of cultural constructions of identity. Is that not the essence of the quest for a scent that becomes a signature? Or one that expresses how one feels about oneself and beauty, nature subjective yes, personal yes, but clearly a commentary.


Off now to explore other threads and to enjoy my latest arrivals of classics or hopefully soon to become classics.

BTW Ezho love that quote Age is something that doesn't matter -- unless you are a cheese. ~ Billie Burke

Touché TaoLady

I hope I smell half as wonderful as you always do when I'm 78!
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And dancin' round the room to awesome Chaka Khan and Whitney - thanks for the link Beachroses