Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

...one raised by a rich uncle while the other was sent to the worst orphanage in the country?

After sampling both now, the similarities are remarkable. Both are powerful, last a long time, and don't develop. Brut was like flavoring for a new, oddball candy that needs to be diluted for use. Kouros was like a concentrated disinfectant that needs to be diluted before using. The effect on the people around me (if I were to spray myself at least a few times) would be the same; they would hold their noses, leave the room, and tell me never to use either one again.

Seriously, in terms of olfactory experiences, what is the major difference? A candy-like scent that is overwhelming versus a disinfectant scent that is overwhelming? That's all I can detect, and after sampling around 100 frags over the last several months, I can say that I've yet to come across similar frags. Vermeil has the clean/dirty thing going on that Kouros does, but it's much more interesting, and settles down like most strong frags do. I've also tried Ungaro II, which is much more subtle and engaging (also clean/dirty). I like gourmands, and don't mind the syrupy, nearly medicinal start to Jacomo Rouge, but Brut is a brutal chemical candy.

Obviously, it's a matter of taste, but my point here is that these two frags are so similar, yet regarded as total opposites; Brut is for the thoughtless, Neanderthal "masses," while Kouros is for the frag aficionado who understand the most intricate, esoteric details of men's fragrances. If you like Kouros, why are you not rotating it with Brut? If I liked Kouros, I can't imagine not liking Brut. Or is there some justification for loving Kouros and hating Brut? If so, I'd really like to hear the explanation (assuming it's not just snobbery).

If you read the Perfumed: The Guide book reviews of these two frags, I think you'll be surprised. I do agree with everso in that if you used a very small amount of Brut (perhaps even diluted it first with perfumer's alcohol) it might be mildly pleasant as a change of pace. For those who don't understand my point, I ask you to take a step back and consider why you think this is a strange comparison. Is it that smelling like a urinal cake is "avant garde," whereas smelling like strange candy is too common? I'm just trying to understand frags as best I can. I have no horse in any race.

Well, whatever is "powering" these 2 frags is very similar. They are both one-dimensional, powerful, long-lasting, and can clear out a room (if the people I hang around with are any indication). One is a sickly, chemical candy smell and the other is a sickly, chemical disinfectant smell. That is the only difference !

I'll just add that I realize that some components might be different, of course, but that if there is a very strong, sickly smell that overpowers you, it's not really that important whether it's a weird candy smell or a disinfectant smell. If some people have a higher threshold for tolerating such strong smells, then I can see why he would consider there to be a significant difference. However, if you are being blinded with light, you really don't care if it's got one tint or another to it, do you? In this case, both of the scents have a sickly, chemical smell to me that is incredibly strong. Eight hours later and there is no development into anything more tolerable, different, or interesting. Perhaps these frags are for guys who sweat a lot (or perhaps the tolerability threshold varies tremendously from one person to another, though as I said, I will still wear Vermeil, Carlo Corinto, Francesco Smalto, Ungaro II, etc. once in a while, but I'll never go near Kouros again).

After thinking this over quite bit (admittedly, more than I probably should have), I wrote up a review of Kouros for BN, and since it will take a while for approval, I'll post it on this thread now:

"I envision a futuristic world, like the bubble-domed one in Logan's Run, where Kouros is sold in a novelty store, situated between the rubber chicken and the fake vomit. Or perhaps it will be in a museum, and visitors will be able to actually get a whiff of it, if they dare! By that time, public restrooms will smell much better than they do now (in most nations).

Kouros is a powerful, long-lasting, sickly chemical scent that features no subtlety and no development (on my skin, at least). Keep in mind that I'm not some twenty-something aquatic guy. I like Vermeil, actually, which I'd recommend to anyone who likes this kind of frag over Kouros (it's got powerful animalic notes and also that "fake clean" quality). Or Ungaro II, if you can find it at a reasonable price. I also like Carlo Corinto once in a while, which features strong leather and dark amber notes.

I recently tried Brut (before trying Kouros) and that is similar, in that you get a strong, long-lasting sickly chemical scent that has no subtlety and doesn't develop. It's amazing that these two fragrances are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, in terms of price and prestige. I can only image that if you sweat profusely, somehow Kouros will develop into something that is remotely tolerable. I'd also warn you that this kind of fragrance can cause your sense of smell to change, as Sung Homme did to me. Now I have such sensitivity that I usually can only stand one spray of an EDT, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it saves me a lot of money, though I don't appreciate the stronger fragrances the way I used to (when I really liked Vermeil and had to wear it once a week)."

Well, people do notice the EDTs I'm wearing now, so I don't think I'm that hypersensitive. It's really an interesting issue, one that I don't think Turin or any other expert has discussed in depth. As I said, I can still appreciate the "clean/dirty" Vermeil, which has nice blending (compared to Kouros), as well as an interesting tangyness, and does develop over time (unlike Kouros). Now one issue could be that I hardly sweat at all and frags develop on me (or just linger) in a similar way to when I spray on paper, and Kouros might not be designed for this. However, in my view, fragrances as "works or art" need to develop over time. "Foetidus" pointed out in one of his many, many reviews that when he writes up a review, he considers development for ratings purposes, yet it doesn't affect his enjoyment of the frag (if it doesn't develop over time). Thus, talking about Kouros as a "masterpiece" is puzzling to me, not because of the urinal cake thing, but because by any "artistic" standard I can think (in the world of frags) of the cheapo Vermeil is so much better (if we put the clean/dirty thing aside).

Could one say that some of the notes in these two frags are presented with a lot of boldness or articulation (as compared to well-blended but high-quality designer frags)?

Just trying to learn. I never said I was some sort of frag expert, and I don't really trust such "experts" after reading "Perfumes: The Guide," to be honest. I sprayed Kouros once below the knee and it was like some sort of poison gas, so don't expect me to go near this stuff ever again. Not sure what the point about Vermeil is. I've said more than once that I experienced some sort of chemical sensitivity issue several weeks ago, so some frags are just too strong for me now. On the bright side, I seem to have developed much better olfactory sensitivity, so now I only need one spray for most frags (saving me money!).

I don't know why that's an absurd question, but I'll try to explain what I was getting at. My thought was that the perfumer may have put more of a certain ingredient in frags like Kouros, making it "jump out" at first, more so than what one finds with the top notes of most frags. Or are you arguing that Kouros is basically like other designer frags, but it's just got some unusual notes? Again, I'm just trying to learn, so I'm definitely not very "sharp" at this point in my frag understanding. I hope fellow BNers will be patient with me, as I pursue my investigation. I know that at times I'll ask some "stupid questions," but that's the way I learn. Don't babies make some mistakes? And don't we find those mistakes adorable?

"Bigsley, your main issue is with Luca Turin..."

I've said in other threads that I'm glad his book is in my hands, but of course there are issues a reasonable person can raise with it. I've also said that his review of Kouros is excellent, unlike some of the other reviews in the book. After reading his review, and having sampled the kind of frag he mentioned in that review, I had enough information to know that it was probably not for me, but since I could try it for free, I felt I owed it to myself and the BN community to do so. If I owned the rights to Kouros, and could sell it, I would do so, but I still wouldn't wear it because it is so offensive to my sense of smell. I thought the title of this thread was funny, but as I said, I realize how emotionally hurtful such titles can be now, and I do promise to try to be extremely clinical in my posts from now on.

If some want to question my intelligence, I will not object, but I won't do that to anyone else, because I am not that kind of person. As many say, "hate the sin but love the sinner." I don't hate LT or his book, and have learned a great deal from both his books, actually. However, I was trained to subject texts to intense scrutiny, and that is the way I am. I have made a pledge to the moderator to refrain from writing any posts that in any way might be considered provocative, and I intend to keep that pledge. I am trying to discuss the actual fragrance itself, as well as how others perceive it. I find it very interesting that many enjoy Kouros, even if I don't like it, and my questions are just an attempt to figure out what makes it (or any) fragrance appealing, or not, though because we are not face to face, it's certainly possible that some will "take things the wrong way." Interestingly, this is a criticism of LT too. Some people read things into his commentary, and of course it's impossible to know for sure if he meant things the way it sounded to those people.

I didn't mean to suggest that Kouros was low quality. Rather, I wanted someone to compare it to something like Polo Double Black, which I perceive as high quality, well blended, and without any one note or accord being very strong. I am surprised to hear that Kouros is well blended. I suspected that one note or accord was given great prominence. Is it that Kouros uses a lot more aldehydes than something like Polo Double Black?