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Anyone working from home?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
I've read a few times on this board people saying their homes are their workplaces, and now I should be starting my (first) job as a software developer and I'll be working from home too.

I know working from home has a lot of bright sides, but on the other hand social interaction has always been important for me, and now that I'll be spending 8 hours every morning alone on my computer, I think I need some advice from people who had done it for long. What have you been doing to keep going? I've always noticed that the more I stay in front of a computer screen working, the less fun (and more boring) I become when interacting with people, and the more my social skills get rusty.

So what do you guys and gals do to keep sane and balanced? Any help from people with such experience is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
post #2 of 30
I work from home as a graphic/web designer with a registered business.

Mostapha, the best advice I can give you is to try not to give in too much, to distractions.
At home (particularly in the beginning) it can sometimes be all too easy to take extended lunch breaks, water plants, flitter from room to room, or get caught up in "oh... i must fix that..."

This being said, working from home allows me the freedom to enjoy working in an environment Im familiar with, at my own pace, and with all my personal possessions (books, materials, music, sources of inspiration etc) at my disposal.
If I feel a need to take a break, I jump onto BN or Facebook and shoot off a few posts, and always try and get outside for at least a brief walk each day. I dont think your social skills are likely to get "rusty" working alone at home, but you can be sure you'll get to know yourself a whole lot better.

All in all, its the best thing i could have ever done. Good luck!
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Wow, Dimitri, thanks for the prompt response.
Do you work to schedule or do you let it vary from day to day according to how you feel? Both options are allowable for me at the moment. You see, the flexibility in work hours also brings along some confusion. I started asking myself, should I wake up really early and finish all my work before noon and have the rest of the day for myself? Should I work from 9 am to 5 pm like everybody else does? Should I work nights? It's really hard to decide. My starting date is this Tuesday. Do you think I'll just have to try out a few schemes before I settle for the one that suits me best?
post #4 of 30
I work from home too (although I am also required to travel fairly extensively - but the frequency of my trips ebbs and flows with various schedules, so there can be weeks when I only make one trip and some weeks when I'm not home at all).

My best advice would be to coordinate your working schedule to the day of your "office" (or if freelance, to the office hours of your clients) - with some exceptions for things like doctor's appointments or unusual projects with tight deadlines, I find this is the best way to stop myself from working 15-hour days, or the opposite - to stop procrastination from taking hold. I tend to set myself an alarm call (mercifully more than an hour later if I had to commute!), get up, have breakfast and get ready just as if I was going to work. I take a lunch break and try to clock off at a reasonable hour. Occasionally I will work well into the night if there's a deadline or a good idea I can't let go of, but I rarely then "slack" the next day to "make up" for it - I find that the ordinary activities of things like cooking, food shopping and like I mentioned earlier, stuff like doctor's appointments - which are much harder to do properly when you're commuting and imprisoned in an office - take up enough of my time to allow for the extra hours I often put in. Plus, if I'm honest, I'm a workaholic and love my job so much that the lines between work and obsessive interest have long since blurred out of sight.

Make sure you do some face-to-face catching up with colleagues at least once every couple of weeks (if you're freelance, getting together with a group of people in the same line of work regularly really helps).

And make sure to create a "work area" and to keep your home space and work space separate as much as possible.

Some people find that a walk around the block in the morning and then again in the evening is a good cut-off between private time and work time. I sometimes do this too.

It's difficult not to make yourself available all the time (internet, mobile phones, blackberries...), so value your own time and set some boundaries - but it's got to work the other way too. Don't treat working time as "your time with some work in it" - good advice from a colleague who has worked from home for years was: "Imagine your working day is being filmed for a TV documentary."

To help organise yourself and clear your head, I strongly recommend finishing each day by writing down what you've got to do the next day (and any things that are ongoing from the present day). It's a way to empty your head and provides a good starting point for the next morning!

There are many benefits - no expensive travel costs, being able to say "no" to horrible ready made sandwiches and canteen food, not having to interrupt what you're doing when a colleague wants to tell you about what they did on Saturday night - but I think I'd struggle to work from home full time and must admit I enjoy the fact that I work in our office and lab locations with other people from the company too. It provides much needed balance and I always get my best ideas after having spent some time chatting with people and bouncing things around that way. That's one of the most important reasons I recommended setting up some kind of regular face-to-face catch up; for your sanity and for the quality of your output, I feel this balance is really important.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your experience!
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostapha View Post

Wow, Dimitri, thanks for the prompt response.
Do you work to schedule or do you let it vary from day to day according to how you feel? Both options are allowable for me at the moment. You see, the flexibility in work hours also brings along some confusion. I started asking myself, should I wake up really early and finish all my work before noon and have the rest of the day for myself? Should I work from 9 am to 5 pm like everybody else does? Should I work nights? It's really hard to decide. My starting date is this Tuesday. Do you think I'll just have to try out a few schemes before I settle for the one that suits me best?

Mostapha, I tend to follow a pretty regimented schedule.

I am at my desk at 8am each morning, and work solidly throughout the day until I feel satisfied with the results, and with the quantity of work I have executed. Some days I will work hard at it (even into the evening and night if a huge task is due on a tight deadline), which also will allow me some flexibility on other days if I need to leave the house and go to the bank, PO or just shop for groceries.
I find if I manage my time well, I can enjoy days both at my desk, and far away from it.
I tend to use an 8am - 4 or 5pm schedule as a loose rule (very important in the beginning whilst forming new habits), and then allow myself to change with the varied rhythms and natural ebb and flow of work. This will ultimately dictate how much time is spent "at work" on any given day.
I love my boss! He's very understanding! Now I work for myself, I doubt I could ever go back.

EDITED TO ADD:

Nukapai also gives some very sound advice above.
I agree that its a very good idea to create a very well defined workspace. If you make an area that is full of all your supplies, literature and resources at hand, it will prevent you from wandering aimlessly through the house looking for a paper stapler or digging in drawers for address books.
I also concur that writing yourself notes at the end of the day in preparation for the following day's work is good professional practice. It will help you focus first thing in the morning on the tasks at hand, and you'll get through them in no time.

Also, if you feel the urge to sit at the desk and do a few hours on the weekend or "after hours", I would allow yourself the opportunity to do so, so long as it is not interfering with your personal life too much. If the urge takes you, its best to belt out the work when you have the appetite, rather than slog and slave over it when you do not particularly feel inspired. But dont make a habit out of it though. Eventually you'll be able to identify what times of the day you work best (for me, its from 8am to 11am, and then again from 1-3pm), and you'll be able to take full advantage of it.

May I ask if youre self-employed and working from home, or if youre paid to work at home?
If you're a business owner, be sure to collect receipts for every work-related expense no matter how big or small. Im not sure about the tax proceedure in Egypt, but you are likely to be able to claim on those expenses.
post #6 of 30
I get three days a week virtual office. There is some excellent advice in these posts. The only thing I could really add is that you should spend some money to make your workspace as livable and comfortable as possible.

When I first moved here to take this job, I worked full time, went to school full time and had my social life on top of that, so I never came home except to sleep. I never really gave decor much thought.

Once I started working from home, all I could think of was "man, these walls are WHITE. I live in white boxes."

I had to go out and get some artwork and paint and fill up the empty with something that created a more comfortable space.

and totally upgraded my office furniture to the best I could afford.

Good luck with your new job!
post #7 of 30
Thread Starter 
Nukapai, what you describe is a very nice work environment. Working from home, but also getting to travel and have a bit of interaction. My work environment differs slightly from yours. There is no office, but rather a scattered team of developers, with minimal interaction. Again more flexibility for me, but a bit more confusion as well.

You make some excellent points too about staying home. I've been really looking forward to the bright side of things. Traffic in the morning and crowded transportation in the summer heat are hopefully things I would not have to endure very often now.

Dimitri, I work for a company that I do not own, I am an employee that works from home. I think my policy at first will be working from 7 am to 3 pm, I like waking up early anyway, and then maybe slowly start varying the working hours, to find out what works best. I think it'll come in a few weeks.

Let me sum up what you guys said:

1. Don't give in to distractions.
2. Focus in the beginning till you get the hang of it.
2. Take walks and go out. I had this mind actually. Dinner outside with friends every few days, and a big night out once or twice a month.
3. Create a work area, and separate home space and work space.
4. Write notes on on progress made (I reckon this is very useful).
5. Do not let the lines between your time and work time "blur out of sight."
6. When you feel inspired, don't stop yourself from working just because you're not in "work time." I think this will come naturally too, since my working hours are quite flexible.

Nukapai and Dimitri, your posts had extremely invaluable information, I cannot thank you enough
post #8 of 30
Great summary! Sounds like you'll be off to a good start!

If your organisation doesn't have a natural way for you to interact face-to-face with colleagues, one possibility (usually explored by freelancers), is to join a common-interest group with professional overtones. Try to see if there is any way (even if it's just on IRC, Second Life or MSN) for you to have some scheduled meet-ups and chats about what's going on in your industry, what sorts of problems you're working on, or just to have a laugh and a moan about some work-related stuff. Some other things to try are trade events or even training courses - anything to bring the important element of variety and human contact to your work. It doesn't have to be forced, daily, or even particularly "meaningful", but I do believe that it makes for better frame of mind and helps produce better standard of output.

One more thing! To add to the bit about separating work time and your time & about setting boundaries - don't allow yourself or other people who live with you to start treating you like a live-in housekeeper. Just because you work from HOME doesn't mean you're now available to do more than your fair share and at everyone's disposal to do the chores they don't have time for. You still WORK, just like they do! On the other hand, there is nothing more satisfying than being able to clock off work and get down to something like cooking dinner long before other members of your household have a chance of reaching home. It's nice to treat the poor souls who have had to commute to something nice when they get back once in a while

My personal difficulty with working from home is two-fold: my current job role is quite materials-heavy (mostly books, magazines, reports and other paper products - but also some oils, raw materials and equipment)... yet I live in a studio flat with my husband and our already huge collection of STUFF. Creating a separate work space for me, in the current circumstances has been more than a little challenging! I did used to live in a 3 bedroom house with an office; much easier! I'm hoping to return to larger accommodation later this year though. What a big relief that'll be! Necessity has forced me to become fiercely organised about my work materials because I often have to pack things away and take them out again every day.
post #9 of 30
Thread Starter 
thaifighter,
7. Invest in making your environment as comfortable as possible - I appreciate that. I was thinking of putting a good amount of money in one of those incredibly comfortable chairs.

I guess I'll never know what does "office fragrance" really mean after all..

Thanks, I feel a little bit more confident (and comfortable) now that everyone says they're enjoying the experience.
post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukapai View Post

One more thing! To add to the bit about separating work time and your time & about setting boundaries - don't allow yourself or other people who live with you to start treating you like a live-in housekeeper. Just because you work from HOME doesn't mean you're now available to do more than your fair share and at everyone's disposal to do the chores they don't have time for. You still WORK, just like they do!

I second that - I'm a student so I don't really "work" from home; but I do spend a lot of time researching and working on stuff at home - particularly now that I'm doing my dissertation. Make it very clear that you're at work and that you're not to be disturbed. Its difficult to do that with family, but its important that you do.

Also, you mentioned "office" fragrances. I usually set apart some clothes which are comfortable, but different from what I'd wear at home to relax with. There's no need for you not to have an office fragrance
post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlt.perfume View Post

I usually set apart some clothes which are comfortable, but different from what I'd wear at home to relax with.

Agree. Despite only having to walk from the bedroom through the dining room and kitchen to reach my office space, I "dress" for work each day as well (you just never know when a client or auditor will knock on your door) So, no pyjama parties at your work station!
post #12 of 30
Hi Mostapha,

I also work from home, part of that time being software development. I will not contradict any of the above good advice on scheduling and other things because I have unusual habits that would not be good for most people (I code best immediately after waking, so I take lots of power naps and work at really odd hours. I also don't sleep very much sometimes). Do not do this unless you discover that it is magic for you. Otherwise, it will be your downfall.

It is important, as stated, to stay focused and not get sidetracked. If you are writing code, you need to stick with it when you have to, and finish things. When the brain says code, then hit it hard. One thing you will find from this is that you can be highly productive. You can code when you are at your hottest, and the code poetry is flowing. People working somebody else's hours may not be coding at their best time, or at their best. You have the privilege to code at your best time, but now you have the duty to write your best code.

You can use some solitary recreation time to solve problems such as sticky points in algorithms and whatnot. Running, walking, cycling, and other activities are extremely satisfying ways to get the time you need to solve problems. When things aren't working, work them out. Also, keeping multiple parallel coding projects in the mix helps keep things interesting and allows you to problem-solve one and plan another while coding still something else.

In addition to making your environment comfortable, consider working from multiple locations in your house when you need diversion. I have written good code on the patio, in the den, at the dinner table, on the coffee table sitting Japanese-style, and in my bedroom. But I always make sure that the task matches what I have at hand. If you need something, bring it - don't wing it. Don't leave the favored work area if you know you shouldn't.

Most important, use the proper equipment. People often force a too-small laptop to do the work of a desktop. There is no reason not to use your "perfect" mouse and keyboard with your laptop when you move it around. Adding a second monitor on a laptop works nicely, and with a raised laptop and keyboard, mouse, etc., you have mobile double monitors anywhere in the house.

Make sure you have backup, or at least a backup plan. An old Windows machine, a linux box, whatever will get you back up and running - fast. Be prepared for other people's "emergencies", too. Nobody ever tells you about that part. But while you are running around in your bedclothes from early morning through lunch solving the crisis problem, bear in mind that you are being valued by your coworkers. Try to keep smiling. You will come out ahead, and the afternoon break will be all the sweeter.

Make sure you have a good headphone or speaker setup that allows you to converse while typing fast with both hands. I always direct people to my cell so I can type while they are talking to me through my headphones. Don't let people drag you into slow email exchanges when IM is better, and don't use IM when a phonecall is better. Don't be afraid to ring them when you get frustrated with slow responses to questions by IM or email.

What Nukapai said about not letting people turn you from a home worker to a house servant is important. That even goes for visitors. You need to be careful about people taking up your time when you don't want them to. This applies on the phone as well. Learn how to quickly disengage by thanking people.

On the plus side, working at home gets the house in order fast. Receiving packages is a godsend. Things that were painful distractions become easy to deal with.

When you are onsite, make the most of it. Take people to lunch, visit their offices, and give them a friendly face to remember. People who I supported offsite did this for me, and I remember them because of it. I learned this one from them.

Finally, a personal note. Don't let it turn you into a slob like it did me. I laughed at the Dilbert cartoon when Dilbert got work-at-home and degenerated into a bum. I should not have been so proud. You are one of the sharper dressers on the board. Make a point of fighting back against "bathrobe programming"! I wish I had done so, but it's too late.... On my good days, I look like I'm on vacation. At other times... don't even think about it!
post #13 of 30
I'm a software architect and have been doing some combination of at-home and on-site working for years now. Most of my work habits were acquired while working on my PhD, both for better and for worse. The "better" here is that I am a self-starter and work well by myself. The "worse" is that I am often unstructured and unconventional, and this makes the bean counters and stuffed shirts in management nervous, sometimes to the point of some of them thinking that I am more of a liability than an asset.

Currently, I do about 60% of my hours at a physical location outside my home at a large IT company here in Los Angeles, and 40% remotely for a financial firm in New York. Probably about 50% of my work effort is actual coding, 30% algorithm design, and 20% management of people reporting to me. The people reporting to me are dispersed between Los Angeles, New York, and Bangalore (India). I occasionally need to travel, but I have thus far kept it to a bare minimum. This means I do lots of teleconferencing, sometimes with a video link, sometimes not. Much of my work is done via VPN (virtual private network).

Working two different contracts at the same time means that time management is crucial. This is because the field of software development has always rested on the implicit truth that the company usually reserves for itself the option of making you work for 80 hours per week for short periods of time, and these periods often arrive on your doorstep with very little forewarning. So you need to anticipate them, and if you're working more than one contract make sure you can handle coinciding deadlines occurring near the end of financial quarters. If you don't, you'll regret it.

Those lessons also apply if you are only working for a single firm. The best advice I can give you is to not procrastinate and assume that you will be able to get something done at the 11th hour. You might get other demands placed on you at the last minute when you mistakenly think you can allocate 10 hours per day to a task, and then you'll be screwed. Companies do not care about your excuses; they just want working product delivered in conformity with deadlines.

Aside from the office I have available for the 60% contract work here in Los Angeles, I have no fixed work location. Lots of my work is done lying on my couch, for example. My girlfriend and I have an understanding that if I tell her I cannot be disturbed during a particular period of time, she respects that. I also do a lot of work at her apartment. You should, as much as humanly possible, dissociate your physical location from your internal evaluation of whether you are "working" or "not working". Your mode should be purely a function of internal mental switching, not of your surroundings. This is hard to do, at first, but it is a skill worth cultivating.

Another issue that has not been addressed yet: money. I'm not sure what it's like in Egypt, but here in the United States you can lose your job very easily with very little notice. I always plan for that, by living debt-free and not spending more than 70% of what I earn (not very American of me, oh well ). I also make sure the people I work for know this, so that they never think that I need their work. Taking this attitude will put you in a stronger negotiating position when trying to raise your pay rate in the future. As a corollary to this, always have your resume/CV circulating to take advantage of better work arriving on your doorstep. It also helps you make a meaningful evaluation as to whether you are being paid enough.

Finally, don't become a shut-in, dominated by your work. Get out occasionally and have a good time. Otherwise you'll go crazy. If it's not necessary, do not adhere to the same time-based work ethic of your 9-to-5 friends. Take advantage of your flexibility. You may not have it forever.
post #14 of 30
Wonderful read so far, I've been toying with the idea of freelance web and graphic design for local businesses and this is just making it all the more tempting.
post #15 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post

... and with all my personal possessions (books, materials, music, sources of inspiration etc) at my disposal.

I just noticed how important this is to me. My music collection at my disposal is a great thing. Something you can't really do in the office.

Redneck Perfumisto, your post was very nice to read. I am worried about my social life, and will definitely put much thought and effort so that work won't mess it up. Exercise and sleep are very important to me, I don't think I'm ready to give those up no matter how interesting work gets.

My equipment is not bad I guess. I'll be using two laptops (so yeah, I guess I'll have backup), my personal laptop is an HP with 15 inch monitor, I like its keyboard but use a proper mouse. I have yet to receive the second. Will be adding more equipment for comfort and efficiency as work progresses.

And about working from multiple locations inside the house, that's not an option for me, since I live with my family. I can, however, work on locations outside the house. Cafes and restaurants are usually empty and quiet n the mornings on work days. That's always an option.. Good idea I guess.

Thanks for the advice, and I bet you're a sharper dresser than I am

Astaroth, mind switching and detaching yourself from your physical location are interesting ideas, I guess they'll come with practice. I wish my family would be as understanding as your girlfriend, I'm sure they won't be though, so I have to be a bit strict in the beginning to make them understand that I'm actually at work.
post #16 of 30
Very very Informative posts above

I'm in a similar profession (Networking, Infrastructure/Asset Management) and the only times I've worked from home were emergency scenarios that required me to VPN into the Corporate Network.
post #17 of 30
Thread Starter 
I just want to say thank you again for the "take notes everyday" advice.
I find it very helpful now that I can look at the things I've done in the past days and measure the progress.
post #18 of 30
Working from home isn't for everyone - I tried it, and knew in the second week of it that it wasn't for me. I'm glad I did it, if only to know this going forward. I lasted two months in that job before I had to give my notice to quit.

It was the total lack of social interaction that really got to me. I was on the phone and on webex all the time interacting with coworkers and clients, but the impossibility of just a spontaneous conversation was really wearing on me.

More power to you if you can do it, though.
post #19 of 30
I work from home 3 days a week working on my site, otherwise, id be helping my aunt with deliveries, she's into airline interior hygiene cleaners.
post #20 of 30
Damn, I think I just bombed my first interview to work from home as an SQL programmer. Unfortunately my background is in MySQL, not MSSQL. Maybe I shoulda lied more.

Ah well, gotta be one out there somewhere.
post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
"I have not worked with this specific technology before (MSSQL), but I find that I can learn this type of things very quickly" - Something similar to this should always work.
But MSSQL is a bitch anyway. At one point during my graduation project I actually considered moving to MySQL, even though I'm on a Windows platform, programming in C#.

Update:
I've started my third week this Monday, and it's going very well so far. I have averaged 41 hours per week which is pretty nice. Again, the note-taking is proving to be an extremely useful thing to do. Since day one I kept a very well organized log of what I do each day, and it's proven to be a very nice way of tracking your progress, and even when submitting reports. Work hours are adjusting themselves naturally, they haven't been a problem like I expected them to be. All in all this turned out very good. Only problem is my mom, who is used to a more conventional type of work, and is somehow not convinced someone can actually work from home. She keeps urging me to get a "real job."
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostapha View Post

Only problem is my mom, who is used to a more conventional type of work, and is somehow not convinced someone can actually work from home. She keeps urging me to get a "real job."

Lol! This doesn't surprise me either!
Despite my full-time hours and 100% dedication to building my brand, Im constantly being told "you'll find something else soon".

Mostapha, Im very pleased you're slipping into a rhythm with your work and hours. "Balance" is key. Enjoy your freedom - for it is not everybody who is awarded this great opportunity!
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostapha View Post

"I have not worked with this specific technology before (MSSQL), but I find that I can learn this type of things very quickly" - Something similar to this should always work.

"If you end up with need for MySQL and PHP absolutely let me know, or I'm sure I could pick up the varations between the languages in a pretty short amount of time." was my quote verbatim (I was already being shown the door), I'm a little bummed but I really don't know MSSQL so not too sad.
post #24 of 30
Bluesoul, best of luck getting the kind of work you want. I think working at home, at least part of the time, sounds wonderful!
post #25 of 30
I had to revive this old thread.. Why? Because it finally happened, I'm working from home. And in an amazing flash of irony, doing exactly what I'd been rejected for the last time I posted on here, programming in PHP and MSSQL. I'm actually the office manager for a domain name registrar that just happens to be based two floors up from me. I'm also making about 70% more money than I was at my previous job, with none of the stress that comes with a sales position. I can honestly say I've never had it as good as I've got it right now. Life is good.

Incidentally this has a lot to do with why I've not been around nearly as much over the past few weeks, quitting the old job and picking up this new one sucked up most of my free time.
post #26 of 30
Great to hear bluesoul!

Another BN'er who has come to enjoy the freedoms that working from home will allow!
Im pleased the change is a rewarding one, both mentally and financially!
post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Congratulations on your new job man Skimming through this thread again, I realized how it's been of enormous help to me when I started work months ago.

Let me repeat the note-taking advice. Write down progress notes everyday. I stopped taking notes three months after starting work when I felt they were no longer needed, but when I was starting out, they were very important. I've also learned to adapt my hours very nicely. One problem though is that I no longer do more than 5 or 6 hours a day, so I have to work through the weekend. But that's not bothering me at the moment.
post #28 of 30
Next excuse for boss:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

Hi Mostapha,

(I code best immediately after waking, so I take lots of power naps and work at really odd hours. I also don't sleep very much sometimes). Do not do this unless you discover that it is magic for you. Otherwise, it will be your downfall.

Now, I know I am not organized enough to work at home. I would not like it at this point of my life. I have the option of staying home a couple of days a week but I never do it.
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish View Post

Next excuse for boss:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

(I code best immediately after waking, so I take lots of power naps and work at really odd hours. I also don't sleep very much sometimes). Do not do this unless you discover that it is magic for you. Otherwise, it will be your downfall.

Now, I know I am not organized enough to work at home. I would not like it at this point of my life. I have the option of staying home a couple of days a week but I never do it.

I'm the opposite of Red, extremely nocturnal. I'm virtually useless before 11:00am, and I frequently schedule conference calls with my Indian developers between 1:00 and 3:00am PT. I occasionally include non-technical people on the invitation list (out of courtesy), and usually get reply emails declining the invitations with rather colorful responses.
post #30 of 30
Although this is not my main job, I take care of two news websites and I get pretty nice money for this. "Taking care" means selecting pieces of news and translating other information which I place on the sites. It's quite easy and the most important, I do it at home. The only negative part is that I have to do this at night, and sometimes I must waste precious time waiting for the newspapers to be updated. Plus, if there is a large amount of 'material', the whole work takes longer, and in such a case I might be a zombie the next day at my other job. lol
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