Orange is Safer than Lemon?

I don't agree with your analysis or conclusions.

I see what you mean though Lucius. To me its more of a ...Lemon is perceived as "just another citrus scent" where orange gets away with it a bit more. Just an opinion obviously.

I didn't know this. Why wasn't I told sooner!!!!????

The association of lemon and industrial cleaners (even car cleaners use lemon) is most unfortunate for perfume lovers. It's very likely that your baby ass and mine were cleaned with an oil that had a lemon scent. And that's where it all started. The smell of lemon oils is omnipresent and popular even though it may stink in combination with soap or terpentine. But what can we do? The use of orange oil is spreading, too. Environment people found out that it's good for treating wood. I worked with that in my hobby carpenter school. That took part of the magic out of orangey colognes, but I managed to not let that kill my joy completely. Lavender oil is a deluxe thinner for oil painting. That usually smells so good it even added to my delight over pleasant lavender colognes. Narcisso Rodriguez for him has a rather new note that irritated me from the beginning. Just the other day I discovered that same note in a textile softener - grrrr! If I hadn't disliked NR from the start, I might now.

Try and immunize yourself at least against the nasty talk. Let your nose decide! The longer you hang around BN more cliché associations will come under your eyes. I can only advise you not to trust them, and rely on what you smell only. As the music lover you are, has it never disturbed you when Italian pizza commercials use the beginning of a Verdi Aria? It's about as brutal!

Lemon/lime done the wrong way ends up smelling like floor cleaner. But witness the lemon in Monsieur Balmain, GFT Trumpers, Bois de Cedrat, or even Armani eau pour homme. Or the lime in GFT West Indian Limes, Virgin Island Water. Or the tangy spicy understones of Crowns Spiced Limes. These all will keep you away from the household cleaner aura..

I don't perceive this, but citrus isn't one of my favorite frag types so maybe I just haven't been paying attention.


Lime and lemon do seem to be very popular in cleaners, air fresheners, etc. Maybe because they are sharp, strong scents that can cover other odors easily? Lemon and lime are commonly used scents in everything; orange, not so much, therefore, I would say yes, maybe orange is a tad safer for a frag note.

I don't know. I suspect I have no idea what i'm talking about.

I can sort of see how you'd come to form that opinion. We're somewhat fickle as a group around here.

There is a near perpetual praise of a scent I own which I consider woefully short lasting - Eau d'Orange Verte by Hermes.

By way of contrast, many of the older lemony woody scents like Homme de Gres and Boucheron Homme are often labelled "old man smell" here, rather than "classic". Although YSL PH usually fairs somewhat better.

And more modern ones like D&G Masculine are just dismissed out of hand, for nebulous reasons I can't fathom.

However, if it's a niche lemon scent like ADP Colonia Assoluta or Etro's Lemon Sorbet, the praise from here is often difficult to contain.

But again, if it's something that smells almost akin to Colonia Assoluta, but doesn't have the ADP name - like Art of Shaving Lemon Essential Oil - the silence is somewhat deafening.
Renato

I disagree with your analysis....Its hard to generalyze.....I think both are very good and safe, it depends on each fragance in particular.

Disagree. Unless the orange is really well done, I automatically think household cleaners.

I actually don't care for the smell of orange at all. I would take lemon or lime almost any day over orange, even if the orange is done well.

It is true that traditionally lemon is used a lot in laundry detergents and cleaning solvents, but by the same tolken, orange was used a lot in flavouring medications (vitamin tabs, cough syrups and lozenges), so one could argue that both have a long history being used in household products that we have all grown up with.

To the statement that many people believe that lemon used in perfumery denotes a scent that is of an inferior quality, I tend to agree with DustB on this one - absolute rubbish.

I don't agree. It all depends on how the fragrance is made. There definitely are some very good lemon fragrances, and some not as good. Just like there are some very good orange fragrances, and some that are not as good.

I happen to think one of the most "first class" scents on the market is Nina Ricci Signoricci (lemon).

I must be oblivious, I have never formed that impression of basenoters. I don't recall reading any statements reflecting those views.

I think any note (lemon, orange, cedar, praline, pink pepper, etc) is open to be interpreted by Basenoters (who write reviews) and others as a 'bad association' with some other strong smelling product.

There is no 'safe' note.

Here on Basenotes, I am reminded every day, that many people strongly disagree with my assessment and enjoyment of the fragrances in my wardrobe. This does not impact my enjoyment of them at all.

Man alive, I sure agree with everything here.

Safer? As in etiquette wise? As in avoiding a social faux pas?

Naaaa, don't think you're right about lemon lime orange or any other citrus this way. Don't think you're right.

Same thing. Readers understand what's going on here.

Well members have answered your question and there's a plain obvious response to it present here before you on this thread. Need I say "mumbo jumbo" with regard to your throwing comparisons to scientific mind and corporate research?

If there's a faux pas in your mind associated with certain citrus scents (oooo, guys, which will be safer for me to wear? I'm so concerned with what's safer!) then it's a faux pas that originates in your head.

I think Lucius, that when making statements such as this:

"Many people, including basenoters, seem to think that citruses, specially those that have lemon or lime notes, are cheap smelling and inferior fragrances."

... they are totally unfounded. It appears to me as if you are attempting to promote your own opinions by presenting them as those shared by "many people". The answers in this thread may also only represent a small sample of members, but the "pattern" we see emerging here is that you're a bit off the mark. Agree?

Accepted!

Now get out of yourself and get involved in threads started by other people.

Cleaning product smelling fragrance would be perfect in places like Europe where they don't clean anything.

what about allure blanche ie?sure many maybe dislike it but noone can say its actually cheap smelling.
take i as a challenge-u only gotta find the real good lemon ones, if they work with ur chemistry heads will turn and thats cos of all the other positive attributes of lemony scents that u have listed in the beginning.

haha, or my subjective oppinion about that is cos of sirslartys point^^

I think Lemon can get a bad rap due to the amount of "lemon fresh" cleaners out there. But I think Rose gets it even worse, since there are so many really cheap rose scents out there that aren't even cleaners..

One could probably find what one is looking for.

I love Terre d' Hermes, but I notice in the reviews the negatives savage the 'rotten orange' smell.

Looking around my house, I have probably 8 or 9 different cleaners with a lemon scent. None of them smell particularly pleasant. I have only 1 orange scented cleaner. My guess is that the acidic nature of the smell of lemon would mask the harsh cleaner smell more easily than an orange smell.

If I smell a badly done lemon scent, I might associate it with cleaners, since this is where I have previously smelled a bad version of lemon. If I smell an orange scent that leaves much to be desired, I would not get the "cleaner" association simply because orange scented cleaning products are not as common. That doesn't mean I would be more pleased with the orange scent than the lemon.

As to some notes being safer than others, I would say that they are. Lavender is safer than many notes. Ever smelled a lavender that turned your stomach? Worst case scenario that I have found is it might be a bit sharp and unpleasant. As long as you don't hate the smell of lavender to begin with, it is a relatively safe bet. For a less safe note, I don't have to think very hard to conjure up a nauseating vanilla or sneeze inducing pepper.

I can see what you were going for here, and unlike other members I do not see it as a personal attack to try to classify basenoters as a group. Yes, patterns do exist. I think you just discovered that some basenoters are quite afraid of them. It is sad to see people jumping down your throat without attempting to really understand what you are getting at. Some people like to think that they exist outside the pattern, which they do not. Sociology will account for us all in the end, my friends.

I also do not agree with your conclusion, however, as I think I am just as skeptical about orange notes as lemon. If you wish to prove something to this group of individualists (irony intended) then I suggest concrete examples and numbers.

Big_Scooter is right... this group of individualists eagerly anticipates your exposition Lucius, demonstrating concrete examples and numbers. Until then, we will keep on being individuals, setting traps for weak little gazelles to walk into whilst poo-pooing the very existence of anything that might even remotely connect us in some way.
What a big, mean mob we individualists are!

There's a town called Europe in Pennsylvania?

Lucius:

Jut to give you another perspective in the lemon vs orange debate,

I don't like Armani PH, and many other lemon scents that I consider overrated snoozefests.

But here's the problem for me: If I want a great lemon/ lime scent I can have my choice with

(in no patrticular order)

1. Signoricci
2. Lowe para Hombre
3. Versace L'Homme
4. Cerruti 1881
5. Bowling Green
6. Habit Rouge
7. Eau de Rochas Homme

That's just off the top of my head.

I don't care for Eau Sauvage and many others that are well-crafted but just not for me.

Now when it comes to oranges . . .

Well, what?

Clinique Happy is simply not in the same category as the above mentioned frags. Eau d'Orange Verte by Hermes is, but it lasts about 30 min tops on my skin.
*sigh*
I guess my best bet so far is Cuir d'Oranger by Miller Harris--an excellent orange/leather scent.

But I missed out on L'Occitane now discontinued orange blossom frag, and I'm still waiting for le petit grain aka sweet orange by Miller Harris to come out--perhaps I could score a decant to see-- or rather smell if it's as good as I imagine it to be.

Cheers,

Mario

Wow! I finally peek into this thread with the seemingly innocent title and find a bare-knuckle brawl more befitting of the WWF! Count me in!

I usually take the side of the underdog (that would be you, Lucius). When reading theads or reviews about citrus frags, one routinely runs across at least one comment that compares said frag to Pledge or some other cleaner. Poor Lucius has some issues with hyperbole, so he may have pushed the argument a bit harder than it deserved, but the point is valid.

The difference of course, is that cleaners are comprised of just one or two cheap fragrance components diluted with several bad smelling solvents, surfactants, and other crud, whereas perfumes are composed of scores of expensive, rare, and heavenly smelling ingredients. Only a brain-dead anosmic cretin would confuse the two. So don't fear your vast horde of citrus scents, Lucius. Wear them proudly, and if anyone comes at you with a polishing cloth, give 'em a swift kick in the kumquats.


I find that very, very hard to believe.

No but there's a

Mars, PA
Venus, PA
East Texas, PA
Berlin, PA
Dallas, PA
Moscow, PA

And if you're really adventurous you can travel to these cities in this order:

Virginville to Blue Ball to Bird-in-Hand to Beaverdale to Bangor to Intercourse to Hop Bottom to Hellertown

Speaking only for myself, I am not afraid of patterns.

The weekly/monthly/quarterly summaries of the SotD threads disclose patterns in the behavior of the Basenotes community. I post my SotD every day and I look forward to each installment of SMM's analysis.

Patterns based upon fact do not bother me, patterns based upon speculation do concern me.

I think there is a pattern of many people associating citrus/lemon/lime with cleaning products. personally, I like the smell of most cleaning products, soap, detergents, etc. The majority of my fave frags have a prominent citrus note. I'm complimented on those the most, though.

There have been some references to those "urinal cakes" as well, and, I must admit, I have worn the very frags that are identified in this manner and enjoyed them.

Orange tends to be slightly boring to me - not lively enough compared with the lemon lime zestiness. And most orange scents are VERY short lived on my skin - like 15 minutes and they're gone.

That there are lemon and lime EDTs smelling like cleanning products? yes.
That all lemon and lime EDTs smell bad? No.

IMO. Citrus EDTs can be some of the most elegant and classy edts. To say that Lemon is inferior to orange (or incence, amber, sandalwood, oud, etc)* is more a mater of individual taste, or at least it should be discussed on a case-by-case basis.

FWIW http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=202296
opinion.

*With the exception of bergamote. That note whoops lemon and orange butt any time, any day.

On a somewhat related note: some people think that citrus frags/EDCs, because of their heavy use of light notes, are less complex than sugary dripping orientals, when its actually the EDCs which are harder to competently compose. See this article by Burr:

http://www.chandlerburr.com/articles/sundaytimes.htm

I totally agree. These matters should be decided on a case-by-case basis. I do find myself enjoying many citrus-based toiletries containing lemon. However I've found that, in general, I don't like household cleaning products that are orange-scented.