He's Just Not That Into You: Niche

In my collection of about 50 bottles, I own only one niche scent which I bought at a substantial discount. All the rest are mainstream designer products which I enjoy very much and among them are favorites that I intend to use and buy over and over again for many years. These are quality fragrances in my opinion. Designer houses have the substantial resources needed to produce excellent products at lower prices than niche firms. I do agree that there is a lot of junk coming from mainstream sources, but I don't buy those things. So the bottom line is that I feel no compulsion to explore the more expensive niche fragrances because I feel I've only scratched the surface with the excellent mainstream designer scents.

I believe prices are the biggest factor for a sudden surge in niche sales. A lot of us always evaluate everything in terms of "most bang for your buck". $200 might be a big jump for someone used to buying desginer scents from a department store. But its a pretty easy jump for the ones that cost $110-$120 considering most of the desginer scents cost $75-80 now.

Financially speaking, with any budget there is always the choice of buying only one or a few of the more expensive items or a larger number of less expensive ones. As long as you are within your budget I don't think you are being selfish to buy the expensive item. But we all buy what we like, and I own several fragrances that I truly love which are very cheap in price but not in quality. It is a fact of life that no matter what we like there will always be a whole spectrum of people which will range from those who agree and like it also to those who hate it and can't understand why anyone would like it. In between are those with the less extreme opinions. In his perfume guide book Luca Turin has strongly criticized a few of my all-time favorite fragrances. Of course, when it comes to me and my enjoyment of life I value my own opinions more than those of others, so I don't let that sort of thing bother me. I'm sure you will make the choices that are right for yourself.

I think that the niche houses are creating perfume as an art, and not trying creating scents that are designed to have mass appeal and to sell in droves. As such niche houses do try to create scents that are different and challenging.

Apparently, many men buy niche fragrances because they are convinced that those are higher in quality and because they don't want to smell like most of the other men that they come in contact with in their daily lives. But I find myself wondering how many of those men buy them just because they want to jump on the status bandwagon. Higher costs have usually been equated with higher status here in our U.S. culture.

I personally think many of the niche scents are over rated, over priced and many have extreme longevity problems. Kilian, for example has some very beautiful scents but I would have a problem buying most of them at even half the price ($225 for a nice, well made fragrance? I don't think so). I have yet to smell a Bond fragrance that I would be willing to purchase; I can't even bring myself to not wash them off my skin when wearing any of the 20 samples the kind Bond sales assistant from Saks gave to me.

That being said, there are many niche fragrances that I am willing to pay good money to wear; Frederic Malle has several (i.e. Musk Ravageur, French Lover), Amouage (XXV), Parfums de Nicolai (New York, Pour Homme, Cologne Sologne, Vie de Provence, Baladin), Ormonde Jane (Ormonde Man). There are others as well.

It's a real mixed bag, and I think it's worth it for you to keep up the sampling process and realize that you have to smell a lot of "empty oysters" before you find the pearls.

Well, there are quite a few niche scents that are ethereal and not so potent. Some of the ones you can try at Saks 5th/Nieman Marcus here in Houston are Creed Epicea, The Different Company Bois d'Iris, The Different Company Bergamote, Geir Ness, Bond No. 9 Eau de NY. I believe most of the BN'ers will agree with me if I say I want it to pack a punch if I am spending $185 on it, and hence something not so potent will not get too many ravings.

I understand what you are saying but people that one comes in contact with (unless they themselves are into niche fragrances) and that will smell these frags won't be able to tell if a frag cost $20 or $200. So I don't think it is primarily about status.

In a nutshell, there's a LOT of crap in niche, just as there are a LOT of crap in designer releases.

One misconception in perfumery, is that "niche" equates "quality". This is not necessarily the case at all. If people keep looking at niche releases as something to "aspire to", then they're perhaps going about things the wrong way.

Just follow your nose, and don't try and think too hard. If you judge each fragrance on a scent by scent basis (and less as a "genre"), then you will amass a collection of favourite smells that appeal to you, regardless of their name or level of distribution.

Let me keep it short'n'sweet.

I started out very much like you my friend. The day I discovered CDG, L'Artisan & PG, I was a convert.

YMMV. One day you will jump ship.

im freinds with almost all SA's in Malls around here...reached a point where it is embarassing for me to go again and again and...again to samples so called designer scents. i love many of them, hate many of them...same goes for Niche

Price is a very subjective topic to dwell on...today, i cant afford many of the scents out there, That doesnt mean a thing, what really matters is, whether i like it or not, when i do get a chance to test it.

i fail to understand why only creed receives this flak. by no means i find SMW, Himalaya etal to be ordinary releases. of what i have tested so far in all malls, none of it could possibly match it in it's genre. so, do i bash it if i cant afford it? i'd bite the bullet and move on.

There are many a houses that release unconventional scents...theres parfumerie generale, L'artisan Parfumer etal...what they release is definitely Unique and yes i love them. at the same time, they also release scents which i might not like...no one is perfect, leave alone a fragrance house.

Going "niche" is the inevitable next stage of our hobby, whether it is all a matter of conception of quality, is another matter.

The only reason I like Niche frags is that it's almost guaranteed that noone else is going to be wearing it if I go out...

There are plenty of designer frags that I like, but the odds of someone smelling just like me are higher and the odds that some pretty thing is going to catch a whiff of me and think "he smells just like my ex" is higher.

and with things like LDDM, Duro and Rose 31, the odds of the same girl thinking "hey! that's different! are WAY higher. The first time I wore LDDM to supper with my family, my mother, sister and sister-in-law all raved about it and they are not shy about telling me when something about me is off. I've had several dates tell me how much they loved it and that they'd never smelled anything like it. (except one who apparently dates a lot of stoners and said I smelled like hashish, vanilla and incense, but hey it totally worked for her!)

Niche is like anything else that's marketed as exclusive, a lot of it is hype. I've had good fortune to have met generous people here who have been free with thier stock and sent samples to hlep me navigate the waters and discover my own faves. That certainly helps.

Just be sure you don't go and drop a couple of bills on a bottle just because it's got good reviews or so-and-so said it's great. Sample and test carefully.

EDITED Due to odd double-post thingy. Sorry.

Mmm, I'd say there's probably a niche line for everyone. I think a lot of people on perfume forms seems to favor the aesthetic of classic perfumery, and favor niche lines that create along that line - rich, thick, opaque perfumes.
For the most part, I don't favor classic perfumery, I like/insist on transparency. I like being able to discern notes, I don't like perfumes that are "well blended", to my nose it smells muddled. My guess is that you've tried a lot of Serge Lutens and Montale, who tend to create thicker scents - I know I haven't really cared for any that I've tried from either line.
However, I do count a couple from L'Artisan amoung my favorites of all time, it's a compatible aesthetic. I also like a couple from CdG- although they are designers, so is it really considered niche?
Yet, if you've tried a ton, and still don't care for the niche lines...it will only save you money.

see! it's easy! lets detach our nose from our wallet and enjoy the scent

TC i follow your thread and i really admire your taste. Keep it up and let us know your thoughts! thnx my freind!

This. I tend to favour niche for the opposite reason that the OP cites for disfavouring it - the niche scents I've sampled (which have obviously been chosen for this very reason) tend to seem quieter, closer and subtler to me. This is something I look for, and like Lefleur, I seem to have a kind of inbuilt dislike of many of the richer 'classic' scents. I'm making efforts to try more of them, and give them more of a chance, but so far my favourites are all niche. The only non-niche perfume I like tends to come from Gucci, for some reason - men's and women's frags.

Also, as others have mentioned, I like the little kick I get from knowing I'm the only one wearing a certain scent - a bit like a secret, no?

I've posted many times here that on average I will like three quarters to 80% of the designer scents I try at random, whereas that ratio is reversed for niche scents.

Too many of them are unisex, more often on the feminine side of unisex. The only innovation being that instead of using gender neutral components as designer scents do, they tend to mix typically masculine and feminine components in roughly equal amounts, and declare the result as unisex.

Too few of the niche ones in general would make the statement of "I'm here", much less "there's a man here".

Also, I often get bemused here when people condemn some designer scents as being linear, but in nearly the same breath praise various niche scents which pretty much have only one dominant note from start to finish to my nose.

I've got a pretty big niche collection, but an awful lot I got very cheaply at closing down sales - and I could have bought far, far more of them(Diptyque, SMN, Miller Harris, numerous other Etros etc) but I just passed on them - they either weren't masculine enough or had severe longevity issues.
Renato

Trying niche and then rejecting them for designer is a great feeling. Hang onto that for as long as you can!

Despite trying so many niche, I own a few L'Artisan scents and CC X for Women, and that's it for the niche part of my collection.

As far as price, my most expensive frags are Guerlains - not niche.

I bet the 800 dollar one was Clive Christian. It's cool, I don't like those either. They smell pretty boring for such a high price.

I used to be in the same boat as you. The house that started me on the niche journey was Creed, which I found at the local Mario's.

I'm going mostly niche now because I cannot stand highly synthetic colognes anymore. After smelling some real-deal perfumes it's just like.. it's like trying to wear American Eagle jeans after owning a pair of Rock and Republics. You just can't do it.

Now there are some designer scents which are of higher quality which I love. Bvlgari Black, Aqva de Bvlgari, Chanel Allure Sport - those are the ones I own and plan on keeping.

It's also interesting because there is a place nearby called The Perfume House that is supposed to carry only perfumes with a certain degree of natural oils in them or something, and those three are there amongst them. It's an easy way to look for quality.

Anyway. Serge Lutens is a nice line to make the switch with. Particularly the scents: Gris Clair and Ambre Sultan. Creed too.

You do not need to smell niche scents, to be a lover of fragrance (or a Basenoter, for that matter). However, if you close yourself off to trying niche scents, you'll IMO be doing yourself a disservice.

Very well put. Be true to thyself.

Of the about 80 scents I've discovered from L'Artisan, The Different Company, Creed, Serge Lutens, Villoresi, Parfums de Nicolai and Acqua di Parma there is only one single scent I say I have always found spotless, never cloying be it winter or summer, there was no time when I thougt it to be crap, which is well done, mysterious yet wearable, with very good longevity: Serge Lutens Fumerie Turque. The other 79 is (was) not worth the price. Not a good ratio.

Another L'Artisan lover here, although I tend to sample whatever catches my attention regardless of house or genre. Nearly everything I've tried from L'Artisan has landed on my wishlist -- something about their overall style of composition just suits me, while other niche houses have been hit or miss.

It's the Guerlains, Carons, and Chanels that I don't get, and I feel as though I should.

Ah yes, that would be Clive Christian No. 1, I believe --- going for a cool $865 now. Pricey. Not worth it, in my opinion.

This whole question of niche fragrances is an interesting one. Personally, I think the best thing to do is to not even try to classify fragrances as niche or non-niche. Just evaluate them on their own merits and decide whether they are worth the money. One of the things that has happened in this industry is that a small (but obviously valued) subset of consumers has demonstrated by its buying habits that it can be manipulated into spending large amounts on money on products just for the perception that they are special or unique. It's not just true for fragrances. It's also true for sports cars, clothing, even private schools. As long as this aspect of human nature is active, the market it creates will be exploited, since the profit margin on such items is probably quite high. You cannot do anything to change aggregate human nature, but you can ensure that you yourself are still making informed, non-emotion-driven purchases.

The argument that buying niche is worth it in order to make sure one smells differently from others is a bit specious. There are so many non-niche fragrances out there, it's pretty easy to smell differently without dropping $200 on a bottle of juice. The only reason to spend a lot on a bottle is if it makes you proportionately happier than less expensive fragrances. I have found that the vast majority of niche fragrances are not worth the extra money, but there are a few that I really treasure.

For example, I have not yet smelled a more authentic oceanic fragrance than Profumum Acqua di Sale. Some others have come close, but none has attained its level of excellence. So I bought a bottle of it, even though it was $240 for 100ml. I greatly enjoy it, since it reminds me of going to the beach when I was younger, and it lasts forever.

There are other niche fragrance houses that I really like because no other house is doing what they do (e.g. Diptyque). And in some others, they have a small handful of fragrances that are better than any others I have tried (e.g. Andy Tauer L'Air du Desert Marocain, Serge Lutens Arabie, Editions de Parfums Frédéric Malle Vétiver Extraordinaire). I evaluate each of the fragrances individually, and decide accordingly. But I will admit that there are many niche fragrances that I have tried and eventually said, "Why would I spend so much on this when I can just buy Polo Blue for $50 and put the rest of that money into a really nice dinner for two somewhere?"

Like a lot of posters before me, I think there's great niche and crap niche. I also believe you can like houses. For example, I love just about everything Creed, Lorenzo Villoresi and Serge Lutens. At the same time, I'm indifferent to Artisan Parfumeur and I hate everything MPG. I actually have a big envelope of 30 different MPG samples and I dislike every single one of them. Only one I can tolerate is Parfum d'Habit.

ToughCool, here's a link to a blog posting of mine where I weigh niche against designer, just in case you're interested...

http://sorceryofscent.blogspot.com/2...-vs-niche.html

I dont know much about niche house frags actually. But to me, designer brands and niche house fragrances are just like Prada and Loro Piana. Both use good stuff to create something that we could wear, while one is fashionable and the other with traditional craftsmanship. Theres no comparison, its all depends what kind of life style that we like

I think the primary difference between designer and niche is that designers, for the most part, must tailor their releases for the mass market. This means market testing, refining, and - ultimately - not taking risks that may be market flops. It's pretty rare to find a modern designer fragrance that is radically different from the others (which is why I like Prada Amber... to my nose it's not like anything else in the mall).

Niche houses are making fragrances for a specialty market and can therefore be more creative. This is probably why some can come off as really 'far out' and unwearable to some people.

ToughCool, I think the problem is that you've found this website too soon into your hobby! It sounds funny, but my thinking is that you're probably overwhelmed with suggestions. It took me many months to 'train' my nose (a process that is always evolving) and appreciate notes and accords. For the first few months I was getting into fragrances as a hobby I only knew and tested designer fragrances. It wasn't until I found this site that the larger niche world opened up. If I had stumbled onto this site before I had a grasp on the designer world my head would have exploded.

Perhaps you need a strategy for getting into niches. What I've been doing is buying/collecting samples containing notes I particularly like. 'Bois', leather, iris, amber and gourmand are the notes/accords I've been into lately, so I've been focusing on finding those types of fragrances from different niche houses. I'll also order a 'popular' fragrance I see mentioned on BN here and there. Through this process (of about 125 samples) I've experienced and learned a lot about what I like and what different lines have to offer This is just what's worked for me.

As for the clear 'preference' for niche among some, I just ignore it. We should all like what we like and no need to be ashamed of anything. So what if I like Allure Homme Sport and can't stand PdN New York (see my sale thread)? It is what it is.

In general (of course), I agree with the OP's opinion, based upon my experience. I'd go further and say that "niche fragrance" is the right phrase to use in most cases, whereas a well-blended, refined fragrance can get to the level of "perfume" or "fragrance art."

It's not like you "go niche" or anything.

I haven't read past Dimitri's comment so I can't comment on what else has been said but this is "spot on" as we often say on the boards here. For instance, this summer I became familiar with many Serge Lutens that didn't "do it" for me (THOUGH, a couple REALLY REALLY REALLY DO!!!), and I always thought I'd "aspire" to these fragrances. It's always about what you like. That's really the bottom line I have to add though, that most of the fragrances that inspire the greatest amount of heart palpitations in me are niche. I think it's best to leave all judgment behind and smell everything you can get your greedy hands on

Hey, TGIF! (Or maybe TGIS...)

All we are saying, is give niche a chance. [hic]

Hey, I'm mostly into designer, too. I agree with Renato's 80:20 thing. That's why I treat niche as mostly samples and a few bottles, and designer as mostly bottles and a few samples.

Don't worry. Niche can deal...

***********************************

Niche: I don't know what to do, Red! ToughCool said he "needs some space." (sniffle, cry) Is it me? C'mon - you can tell me the truth. I something wrong with me?

RP: No, it's cool. I know lots of guys who are just dying to go out with you. Some of 'em think you're way better than Designer.

Niche: (sniffle) Really?

***********************************
PS - "poopoo platter"? LMAO Oh, yeah. Niche does have some bad hair days.

ToughCool,
Thank you for the Friday discussion
I believe that family is far more important, than scents. And if the question is - to spend 100-200 bucks on scent or on something family really needs - I believe everyone would choose family values.

As for niche-designer scents, just follow your nose. All those descriptions are made for easy understanding and defining. Anyway, there`s the same syndrome with scents as with the same two dresses on the party - nobody wants to wear the same.

If someone does feel that 5 scents is enough for him/her - congratulations! If he/she wants more, - let it be that way. The same with prices - the rule is in everyone.

for me it`s interesting to know more about fragrances, ingredients, notes-accords, concepts, history, perfumers. It`s great hobby about the great perfumery world! And I like to know more and more? to find something new and uncommon.
Though someone could think it`s weird to be so interested by perfumery, spending so much money and time.

I just wanted to add quickly, that it's really about the adventure with niche fragrances... For instance, I went on a big hunt for the most compelling sea-smelling scent... and now i'm on a patchouli fixation, and niche houses often lead you around like that, really opening your eyes to new fragrant sensations. It's not always about love at first sniff.. But this is a really great discussion for me and something I've thought about a lot recently. I went out a lot this summer, either just hanging out at outdoor bars or occasionally going to a club, during my vacation and the guys usually smelled really good... standard fresh scents, occasionally a little different like a Bond I'd notice or perhaps Creed but usually the standard D&G Light Blue style... and they REALLY smelled good in that context. I, wearing who knows what, actually craved something more ordinary and friendly smelling.

To summarize, I honestly think most things smell kind of good. I can find something to appreciate in almost everything that passes my nose. But niche is often about the sense of adventure, about sniffing those unheard of accords or unlikely scent combinations that are not as readily available in the mass market as, well, they are difficult to market to the masses. That said, niche doesn't always mean weird... there's a lot of simplicity and beauty out there, too. Blah blah now I've gone on and on for far too long... And why is Rive Gauche my wardrobe icon??? hahaha... weird...

I am eight months and several hundred samples into my perfume testing habit, and though I am commenting from a women's perspective, I have been grappling with this niche vs designer (or lower!) issue along the way. Like Dmitri and others who have agreed with him, I think there is good and bad in each segment and there is not a single house of whom I like all or even the majority of the line. I tend to cherry pick the ones that appeal here, there and everywhere, and as a result my collection is an extremely motley mix of high and low end. The only area where I think niche consistently delivers better products over designer is in scents featuring a rose note. Give me niche rose any day over the Parises of this world!!

Excellent point.

Status is usually associated with mainstream fragrances that are more recognizable in both name and smell: "Oh! You're wearing Gucci Pour Homme!" That's far more likely to impress someone as a status symbol than telling someone you're wearing Il Profumo Patchouli Noir. The response to that would likely be a very unimpressed "What and Huh?"

My particular affinity for niche is that I find wonderfully experimental scents in the world of niche that would never emanate from a big mainstream company -- scents that the mainstream market would probably reject in a heartbeat.

I think we are, however, seeing designers like Chanel and Armani move into high-end niche-type offerings, such as Les Exclusifs and Armani Prive, because they've seen that consumers are willing to spend big bucks on a fragrance, and a number of those consumers want a recognizable "status" name to go along with it. They want to be able to say, "I'm wearing Armani" to an appreciative nod rather than toss off some name that's met with a blank stare.

As Surreality said above, very few people beyond yourself are going to know how much you spent on that niche bottle (which is not the case when you're sporting Gucci, Chanel, Versace, Bulgari, etc.), so niche perfumes seem a poor choice for signaling financial/social status.

Glad to see you at Basenotes, Nathan! Enjoy your blog and will look forward to reading your comments here.