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“I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender.” Mainstreams that coulda been Niche

post #1 of 40
9/13/08 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 
What mainstream male scents coulda been a contender for a great "niche" fragrance..
Kouros maybe, or Gucci ph?






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post #2 of 40
9/13/08 at 10:48pm
I loved the reference to the movie.
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post #3 of 40
9/13/08 at 10:50pm
I agree with Kouros being a decent niche. I also wonder the other way - which niche could have been "mainstream designer"?

Kenzo is almost niche, IMO. I think that Kenzo Tokyo is a bit strange for a woody, in the same way that Hinoki is, and "coulda been niche". Kenzo Power also sounds like it coulda been a contender, but I still haven't sniffed it.
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post #4 of 40
9/13/08 at 10:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

I agree with Kouros being a decent niche. I also wonder the other way - which niche could have been "mainstream designer"?
.

The other way: maybe New York Nicolai?
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post #5 of 40
9/13/08 at 10:55pm
Givenchy Incense & Vetiver
Guerlain Heritage & Vetiver
Chanel Egoiste & Antaeus
Piguet Fracas & Bandit

I believe that legendary mainstreams could easily be a niches
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post #6 of 40
9/13/08 at 11:06pm
By today's standards, Givenchy Gentleman is niche-like.
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post #7 of 40
9/13/08 at 11:25pm
First of all, what is wrong with being mainstream? Does the status of being niche supierior to a designer status?

Who needs niche when you have

All YSL scents.
All Guerlains (except the last one)
All pre-Allure chanels
All Guccis.
The edible fig on Varvatos and Marc Jacobs has something quite L'Artisaneque.
Signoricci
Tumulte
Yang
The Dreamer.

Coversely all Comptoir Sud Pacifique could have been mainstream. CdG could have been a designer brand... wait, it is! Some of their scents are actually quite ordinary and not all that special.
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post #8 of 40
9/13/08 at 11:34pm
I think Terre D Hermes could be niche.

Some of the classics in some sense were niche. Marketed to an a small group, daring for their day, not too common, etc. By that I mean Knize 10, Tabac Blonde, Bandit, etc
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post #9 of 40
9/13/08 at 11:40pm
BTW Guerlain is niche
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post #10 of 40
9/14/08 at 2:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rompip View Post

BTW Guerlain is niche

It depends on which definition you are using. I can think of two criteria

1. Company that exclusively makes perfumes.
2. Dedicated company with limited distribution.

Guerlain does not have limited distribution (I just have the bad luck of living in a town that sells no Guerlain in a 150km radius). Unless you are talking about the special collection of scents only sold at their stores.
If you only consider the first criterion then Coty (Aspen, Stetson, Vanilla Fields) is niche too.
Is Acqua di Parma niche? it's owned by LVMH just like Guerlain.


I shall continue. Who needs niche when you can have:
The Carons.
Boucheron
CK Be (the mainstream anti perfume)
The Vintage Ungaros I, II, III
Grey Flannel
Fahrenheit is pretty "out there" too.
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post #11 of 40
9/14/08 at 2:07am
Oscar Pour Lui
Van Cleef & Arpels
Giorgio
Cacharel PH
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post #12 of 40
9/14/08 at 3:02am
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Lalique Encre Noir. And I agree on the Gucci PH.
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post #13 of 40
9/14/08 at 3:12am
Kenzo Air (Ouzo + hay, weak lasting strength)
Paul Smith London
Fleur du Male (maybe)
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post #14 of 40
9/14/08 at 3:32am
BTW - A recent thread entitled "Which designer fragrances are good enough to be niche?"

http://community.basenotes.net/showt...designer+niche
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post #15 of 40
9/14/08 at 4:41am
Kouros 4 LIFE !
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post #16 of 40
9/14/08 at 4:57am
None. Although many "niche" ones should be declared "designer quality".
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post #17 of 40
9/14/08 at 6:23am
I understand niche to refer to houses that consider artistry as well as mass market sales. The boundary tends to be blurry. Such magnificent mainstreams as Antaeus, Egoiste! Such appealing niches as PdN New York, Ambre Russe,! It is too hard for me to sort out!
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post #18 of 40
9/14/08 at 7:00am
Azzaro Pour Homme
Armand Basi Homme
YSL M7
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post #19 of 40
9/14/08 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by javagreen View Post

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Lalique Encre Noir. And I agree on the Gucci PH.

Ditto on Encre Noir, and add Dior Homme.
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post #20 of 40
9/15/08 at 11:29am
Yes, Encre Noir is an excellent choice.
And I suggest the following: Armani (original). It is so widely available, and yet it is not the current style. IMO it is the classiest of the 70-80's fougeres. The lemon gives a lift and lightness to the otherwise powerful elements. In today's marketplace, it really stands out.
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post #21 of 40
9/15/08 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitrios View Post

Oscar Pour Lui
Van Cleef & Arpels
Giorgio
Cacharel PH

Yep. He said it.
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post #22 of 40
9/15/08 at 11:55am
I think Bulgari Black can be thrown into the mix.

I'd like to second YSL M7 as anything with oud seems out of the mainstream designer safe zone.
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post #23 of 40
9/15/08 at 12:06pm
We have a few blurry definitions of the term "niche fragrance," but what exactly is the proper definition? I think our analysis will be very blurry unless we nail down a proper definition and then go from there.

The formal definition of the term "niche" is the following: a submarket that emerges to provide a product that the mainstream market is not addressing. Now, by definition a "niche" can outgrow itself once it influences the mainstream market, as it will not longer be considered "niche" because it is part of the mainstream market. I think an interesting question is what fragrances were "niche" but have evolved and become part of the mainstream market thus losing their "niche" status?
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post #24 of 40
9/15/08 at 1:23pm
Ohh the classic conundrum...

Frankly speaking - in this world of globalization- if a perfume is available on internet- its no longer NICHE in my books.. WHY !! because it can be bought at a click of a button...

I concur with the person who said about blurry definitions...it behooves us that we define what Niche is...

Niche to me bespeaks of an "UNCOMMON SCENT of good quality WHICH IS HARD TO OBTAIN- and not found on many people" -perhaps Custom Blended perfume which a person sits with the perfumer and makes a perfume conformal to his/ her's preferences...

I wouldnt call CDG or Montale Niche because its available on the net...but at an exhorbitant price...
Frederic Malle- yes perhaps. An attar blended for me in the by lanes of Istanbul or Bahrain or Bombay is niche for me- because- it was made right before me and just for me- to suit my skin chemistry and my temperament..etc.

So you see sirs, Niche is a very subjective thing...what niche is for me - might be plebian for you...


from my personal collection ,me thinks- M7 , Bulgari Black, YSL Nu Guerlain vetiver...fit the bill. but...the questions till looms over us

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post #25 of 40
9/15/08 at 1:25pm
I'll third M7 - it feels very nichey to me.
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post #26 of 40
9/15/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephyr16 View Post

Ohh the classic conundrum...

Frankly speaking - in this world of globalization- if a perfume is available on internet- its no longer NICHE in my books.. WHY !! because it can be bought at a click of a button...

I concur with the person who said about blurry definitions...it behooves us that we define what Niche is...

Niche to me bespeaks of an "UNCOMMON SCENT of good quality WHICH IS HARD TO OBTAIN- and not found on many people" -perhaps Custom Blended perfume which a person sits with the perfumer and makes a perfume conformal to his/ her's preferences...

I wouldnt call CDG or Montale Niche because its available on the net...but at an exhorbitant price...
Frederic Malle- yes perhaps. An attar blended for me in the by lanes of Istanbul or Bahrain or Bombay is niche for me- because- it was made right before me and just for me- to suit my skin chemistry and my temperament..etc.

So you see sirs, Niche is a very subjective thing...what niche is for me - might be plebian for you...


from my personal collection ,me thinks- M7 , Bulgari Black, YSL Nu Guerlain vetiver...fit the bill. but...the questions till looms over us


Isn't CDG ( Comme des Garcons ) under the company Coty ( mass market group) ? Would that not in itself make it non-niche ? I suppose it depends on who the perfumers are as well.

PS : M7 is really niche to me. It also apparently flopped on the market, so I suppose that is evidence that it is good enough to be niche.
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post #27 of 40
9/15/08 at 3:44pm
I like the quote, but I agree that the distinction implies a hierarchy that perhaps was only meaningful for a few years in the 90s, when niche brands were in a way continuing a tradition of quality while the designer market was taking a nosedive in terms of ingredient quality and originality. Today niche is often merely a marketing gimmick to justify high prices for the same half-baked designs stuffed with cheap synths the mass market offers. I think pretty much every good perfume could be repackaged as luxurious niche. Certainly the male Carons and Guerlains and Patous and Desprez, as well as Aramis JHL, Cacharel ph, even Burberry Brit, so many many others.
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post #28 of 40
9/15/08 at 5:59pm
Yang.
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post #29 of 40
9/15/08 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

We have a few blurry definitions of the term "niche fragrance," but what exactly is the proper definition?

Nietzche: "All things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

Niche-y: "Egoiste is the very essence of a noble soul."

Nichey-isms: "I still live, I still stink: I still have to live, for I still have to stink."
"L'Artisan raises its head where Creeds relax."
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post #30 of 40
9/15/08 at 7:39pm
I'll agree with the great choices of;

Burberry London

Jacques Fath Yang

I'll add;

Rochas Man

Ungaro III
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post #31 of 40
9/15/08 at 8:23pm
Sometimes I think of making a thread called "Niches that could have been YSL products."

Speaking very casually, and thus blurring the lines defining niche and designer, I think niche means some kind of unusualness that at an extreme can be outrageous or statement making in some different way. I think YSL Pour Homme would easily fit under the L'Artisan roof, Kouros under the lean-to canopy of Etat Libre d'Orange maybe, and M7 under the MPG roof, for example. There are some more I can't think of right away. Nu edp would be made by one of those very small houses with a nifty name that were just incorporated yesterday. The ones that sell very expensive scents with nifty names for bourgeois fantasies of bohemianism.
--Chris
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post #32 of 40
9/15/08 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

We have a few blurry definitions of the term "niche fragrance," but what exactly is the proper definition? I think our analysis will be very blurry unless we nail down a proper definition and then go from there.

The formal definition of the term "niche" is the following: a submarket that emerges to provide a product that the mainstream market is not addressing. Now, by definition a "niche" can outgrow itself once it influences the mainstream market, as it will not longer be considered "niche" because it is part of the mainstream market. I think an interesting question is what fragrances were "niche" but have evolved and become part of the mainstream market thus losing their "niche" status?

BTW, the definition of "niche" that I submitted was from the Webster's Dictionary sitting in the library in my office so I did not just make that up, it is the actual definition. I just figured if we had a definition then it would further this discussion.
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post #33 of 40
9/16/08 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

BTW, the definition of "niche" that I submitted was from the Webster's Dictionary sitting in the library in my office so I did not just make that up, it is the actual definition. I just figured if we had a definition then it would further this discussion.

Since Guerlain is now part of the LVMH empire perhaps only their pre-1994 work would be niche?
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post #34 of 40
9/16/08 at 12:00pm
I've said before (so many members will please forgive me for repeating myself) that ownership or not, Guerlain and Caron fill a grey area. They are huge market suppliers in most department stores just like designer stuff, but they're only makers of things for the nose, just like niche houses.

Also they're very old houses, and who could blame them for building themselves up into the master powerhouses of manufacturing and worldwide supply they've made themselves into since the industrial revolution? They're houses who have made things just for the nose, and made themselves to top of their games through one hundred years of marketplace life.

I evaluate their products against niche houses when I mentally process them though, because like niche houses they make things only for the nose.

Just my way of working with the words, the hazy definitions, and the times.
--Chris
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post #35 of 40
9/16/08 at 4:25pm
HELMUT LANG CUIRON

as good as ANY niche scent i've ever smelled. It was so limited in production that some could argue it almost was a niche scent.
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post #36 of 40
9/16/08 at 4:33pm
Ed Hardy Man, Yatagan, 3rd Man, L'Anarchist, New West.
Renato
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post #37 of 40
9/16/08 at 6:46pm
  • KMF
  • offline
  • Gender:
Why make the distinction? Enjoy them for what they are!
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post #38 of 40
9/16/08 at 7:57pm
Personal taste as we all know is across the board so "niche" as in a product that smells better than the rest isn't a viable category. Niche in terms of quality of craftsmanship and oils used is another story. Chanel, Rochas, Estee Lauder/Aramis, Bulgari, Cartier Dior, Guerlain, YSL, Hermes, Boucheron and some others are houses that construct their fragrances with more attention than other outlets/houses. Each have at least one fragrance that can hold its own against the niche labels. Before the monster that is LVMH spawned and ate up the world 3 of the aformentioned houses where in a better place.

Many of the older fragrances (pre-1990) are of niche caliber. Today's industry juggernaut, demanding a new scent every month doesn't allow for fine classics to be put out. Perhaps Montale and Lutens should offer a word regarding the rapid production of niche fragrances.

An alternative question that is of interest is which niche fragrances should hang up the gloves, lower their prices and step into the department store weight class where they belong?

Cheers,
Al
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post #39 of 40
9/16/08 at 9:25pm
I know few will agree, but I think that had Prada Amber been released by a niche company it would be heralded as a fantastic, unique entity.

I wore L'Occitane Eau des Baux yesterday. Not only was it as high quality and rich as any niche I've worn, it lasted 18 hours on my skin.

Depending on whether you consider the Chanel Exclusifs 'niche' or not, they could nearly all be included (I consider them niche because of the low availability, low distribution, and high cost).

Everso mentioned Cuiron, I agree with him and add in Helmut Lang EDC/EDP.

and oh yes, Dior Homme... beauty in a bottle. I realized when I wore it last week that I go through a substantial amount (5ml+) every day I wear it because of over-applying and re-applying. There's nothing I love to have eminating from myself more than this.
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post #40 of 40
10/1/08 at 7:38am
Prada Amber gets my vote, so does Gucci PH. Love both of those just as much as any of the niche I've got.
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