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Closest natural civet substitute?

post #1 of 19
10/15/08 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Just curious what I could use as a natural civet substitute. Right now the closest things I have that I think could emulate some characteristics of the note either alone or combined are:

Valerian Root SC02
Patchouli (various)
Jasmine (various)
Niaouli Nerolidol type (this has a very fresh/harsh medicinal opening but has a distinct poo note in its middle, unfortunately it doens't last that long and would require too much of itself in the composition to really make a noticable civet-like note)
Spikenard

I'm going to experiment with some combinations of the above, but am looking for a potent all natural civet alternative.

One of the few animal products that is environmentally friendly is Hyraceum or African Stone from the Cape Hyrax. Wiki says this: "The material hardens and ages until it becomes a fairly sterile, rock-like material (also referred to as "Africa Stone") that contains compounds giving it an animalic, deeply complex fermented scent that combines the elements of musk, castoreum, civet, tobacco and agarwood."

Anyone out there have experience with Hyraceum? Which of the above notes seems to stick out most?

Any other recommendations for a natural civet substitute?
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post #2 of 19
10/15/08 at 2:38pm
What about Ambrette Seeds ?
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post #3 of 19
10/15/08 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Ah, good point. I actually don't have them in my palette yet as many places were having stocking issues with them. I'll be ordering some ASAP though.

I've heard of people cutting natural civet with things like baby poo. I suppose that would work but uh.. yeah, I'm not going there!
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post #4 of 19
10/16/08 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post

I've heard of people cutting natural civet with things like baby poo. I suppose that would work but uh.. yeah, I'm not going there!

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post #5 of 19
10/16/08 at 11:35am
I'm not familiar with Hyraceum except by description, so I can't say how well it resembles civet.

To me, civet is strongly indolic, so jasmine would probably come closest.. but it's not really very similar. You could certainly not replace one with the other.

Honestly, artificial civet is probably your best bet, unless you find the Hyraceum to be both suitable and readily available.
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post #6 of 19
10/17/08 at 10:51am
Firmenich has a great Civet CNC base. And it smells super animalic and civetty.
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post #7 of 19
10/17/08 at 11:46am
I might be wrong but I thing he prefers naturals ...

Scentophile, are you referring to the one used in MKK and Kiehl's musk ?
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post #8 of 19
10/17/08 at 6:51pm
Sculpture of Soul, in the archives of the natural perfumery yahoo group I belong to, I read a couple of posts that talk about africa stone. Apparently it depends on the source and the extraction method, but it can smell like castoreum and civet.
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post #9 of 19
10/17/08 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone. I'm going to be ordering some african stone soon, I'll report back on how it smells.
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post #10 of 19
10/29/08 at 1:48am
I think Ambrette is not going to do the job, since it smells like a white and clean musk type and in my opinion it doesn't have any animalic aspect. Givaudan has a great civet reconstruction which is like the real deal. But it's, of course, not natural.
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post #11 of 19
11/5/08 at 9:50am
In case you consider synthetic:

http://store.perfumersapprentice.com/bebaco.html
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post #12 of 19
11/5/08 at 10:36am
I haven't smelled it in isolation... but I've smelled it in some of Ayala Moriel's fragrance line, and it's definitely a pronounced animal note.

The easiest way to describe it is this: if civet is feces, stone tincture is urine. It's more complex - and more pleasant in the context of a fragrance - but I find the easiest way to describe it is that.
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post #13 of 19
1/8/10 at 8:49pm
African Stone Tincture smells a lot like civet AND castoreum combined. The neat thing about it is that it's absolutely cruelty free. So you get that deep leathery quirkiness and at the same time also the dirty indole without torturing a soul. Both aspects - the leathery and the fecal - really deepen florals tremendously and complement them.
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post #14 of 19
1/8/10 at 9:13pm
Maybe you could adopt a Civet, they actually are similar to cats; if you adopt one young enough it will be very kind natured. When it decides to drag its hind quarters around to clean/mark its area, instead of saying "bad-kitty" you could just use a scraper to scrape it up and utilize it in a tincture. They are popular pets in the Philippines and other areas.

I knew someone from the Philippines and she had one as a pet and it had this yummy deep smell to its fur. She did not use it secretions for fragrance though. It was actually nicer than the family dog. Quite a bit strange looking though.

**Well, now might not be a good time for adopting one; i just read how they have been found to pass SARS onto humans. I guess the tables have turned.
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post #15 of 19
1/8/10 at 9:52pm
You could try Costus EO (Saussurea lappa). It is more like a musk, softer than civet, but it is a very potent fixative with some very animalic undertones. Only small amounts are necessary, as it can overwhelm a blend. Valerian and Spikenard, while pungent, tend to sour the mix, and I am never happy with them in any perfume blend. Birch Tar, Tobacco, Oud or Cepes (Mushroom) blended with Yarrow or perhaps Spike Lavender could give you a sharply animalic twist. But really nothing replaces synthetic civet (I would never use the real thing, as the synthetic is an extremely close duplicate and completely ethical to use, even in natural blends, as so very little is necessary with extreme dilution.
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post #16 of 19
1/8/10 at 10:00pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. Turns out that since the original post I've decided that I do not intend to stick to all naturals any longer. Actually, I've not had the time for any perfumery in quite some time but when I do get the time to start working on it seriously again I plan to investigate synthetics and start incorporating them into my mixes.

I will definitely be picking up some african stone tincture though, when the time comes. I had intended to order some a long time ago but I found I hadn't the time to invest to really get into and continue learning the art and craft of perfumery seriously and so never ended up getting any.
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post #17 of 19
1/12/10 at 1:16pm
http://www.profumo.it/perfume/prodotti.asp?cat=22
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post #18 of 19
1/19/10 at 1:16am
http://kishelscents.com/

All the natural animalic scents you need!
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post #19 of 19
7/20/10 at 5:28pm
Not sure how close it is to natural civet, but I've come across the African Stone at Enfleurage in NYC, and it's a lovely animal note. To me it smells old, dusty, warm and rich. I've smelled civet reconstructions (you can get one at a wicca shop in the East Village called Enhantments, if you're in NYC--it smells just like the civet someone at Symrise let me smell), and to me they smell a bit like rotting teeth. The African Stone is a bit "browner," more velvety. If you want to go artificial, you could try lactoscaton or Civet CNC. I've also got some costausol on order--can't wait to see what that smells like. Some places also sell natural ambergris, but it runs very expensive, and I'm not able to judge its quality.
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