How do you explain to people 'all fragrances are unisex'

You could just wear what you like without explaining. As for other people, they'll probably either find their way out of the gender box on their own or not on their own.

Probably not a good answer. It was just what occurred to me.

Have them try it without telling them that it's not specifically for their gender?

You should lie to them until they can handle the truth.

That's hysterical!!

I'm guilty of the same prejudices, though. I may love a smell, but if it doesn't feel like "me" (too masculine) then I can't enjoying wearing it.

Lol at the conversation between debbborra and Stereotomy... Nice one.

1 way is to explain that fragrances are not unisex, instead, they have no gender. The former says it is Ok for men a women to wear the same juice, the latter says 'I do not care'.

Fragrance usage requires certain degree of arrogance, an arrgance that says

1. I do not care what you think of me.
2. YOu do not know jack about perfumes,
3. I wear what I like.
4. Yeah, it is a femenine juice, so it requires a real man to pull it off.
5. I am not a slave of preconcieve notions formulated by the greedy marketing of a perfume.
6. All of the above.

Irish: Well said and bravo!

Being a BNer in a non-frag world requires a bit of standing up for oneself and belief in the fact we know that we're wearing.

I do not always feel to introduce the subject of frags in almost all conversations. But if it veers to that, I'll make it clear that we BNers are better educated than the general populace on the history of perfumes, on perfume-making, and that collectively we probably know about perfumes more than the perfume companies' PR & Marketing drones and dept. store SAs combined.

In general, i tend to not explain anything to anybody, people do not like that unless they ask for it.

If they do ask, however, i change the subject in a very subtle way, and let them revel in their ignorance.

I also don't care. I don't live my life worrying about what sales people think. If an item is there to try, I will try it regardless whether others approve or not.

I have already come to the conclusion that members of this board are far more knowledgeable than the SA's they are encountering, so why let someone who knows less than you dictate what you try or don't try? I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Love that...the mysterious approach.

#1 I don't explain, although I suppose you could say that "It's a gift". #2 I was hoping that this new generation is beyond this. #3 I just purchased Lolita Lempicka and Dune and I know that I will need to keep my husband away from both. (Or, on second thought, maybe not...both are really yummy!)

I've seen from experience that it's
much easier for a women to
go up to an SA and ask to try a
men's scent than it is for a man
to ask to try a women's scent?

My sister wouldn't wear my Dior Homme even though she adores it, and even though it's quite a feminine scent. I always try to explain to her that there's no such thing as a fragrance for men or a fragrance for women, but she just can't believe that for some reason.

So there you go, this is my not very successful way of explaining that all fragrances are unisex:
"There is no such thing as a women's fragrance"
"There is no such thing as a men's fragrance"

One word answer...
Decants

Unlabeled decants but that may be two words.

I don't explain - I wear womens frags, and have had no problems.

If someone said something I wore smelled feminine I'd say "It works for me".

If someone recognized the fragrance as a woman's fragrance I'd say "It's a soup of chemicals put in a bottle - it doesn't have a gender."

If someone wanted something a little more in depth, I'd probably say something like what I said here.

If someone questions why I'm wearing my "femme" SotD (Beyond Paradise - the original), I'd say, "Look, I don't care about the gender of my fragrance. I only want to wear it, not f___k it!"

I'm with Aromi on this one. My wife dislikes Creed's Bulgarian Flowers. Now she doesn't abhor it. She just doesn't understand why I like it. It happens to be one of my favorite fragrances. I wear it. She on the other hand wears what she likes.

Scent for me is an extension of my personality. I also do it because it is a way for me to glorify the beauty that is in this world.

I'm must too busy to convince others that I'm attractive. :-)

You just write an episode of "Two and a Half Men" where the gay ones pose straight and vice versa.

As a man in my profession, just wearing fragrances seems to put me in a weird category. (I'm not even sure most of my co-workers shower regularly.) I would agree that fragrances do not have any gender, but there are still prevailing cultural associations between gender and particular odors. Heavy florals and powdery fragrances are certainly worn more by women than by men, so those associations empirically end up acquiring strength. I agree with Galamb_Borong, however, that these associations are purely cultural.

I'm not really keen to push up against those associations too vigorously, since the social price one can pay for doing so is often not realized until it's too late. There are a few fragrances marketed to women that I really like (e.g. Il Profumo Macadam, Parfum d'Empire Cuir Ottoman, Parfums DelRae Bois de Paradis), but there are only a few that I would consider wearing around anyone but my girlfriend. I might think differently about it if I were gay, however. I think gay men are fortunate in that they seem to have more flexibility in these matters.

Actually if you search the BN board I remember a thread where a gay male BNer here who posted about gay males and fragrances... I think he was a North American, and if I recall the conclusion of that discussion was, "teh gheys don't like men who wear frags."

In which case, I applaud that gay male BNer for still liking frags despite the peer pressure.

The bottom line is that we live in an imperfect world populated with many people who make decisions for bad reasons, and sometimes those people make decisions which impact us. I'd love to believe that my ability to sell my software would not be negatively impacted by walking into a meeting smelling like Tinkerbell in heat. But I know that's not the case, especially when dealing with stodgy, conservative defense contractors. Maybe I'm just a whore for cash, but it's more important to me that I get the contract than that I take every opportunity to push the limits of ignorant peoples' comfort zones in order to make a statement about the true meaning of gender. Hats off to everyone else, though, who decides to wade into these deep waters.

That sentiment was at a particular nightclub if I'm not mistaken - not a general sentiment of gay males.

I wear Dior Homme on occasion -- it seems unisex to me. Although I've seen reviews on BN with men (primarily) complaining that it was too sweet.

I would actually prefer if men wore more women's/unisex scents; some of the men's scents are just too "manly" to my nose. :-)

I usually like to time my showers with each major release of our software.
Besides Q4 isn't so far away now..

Would it be too flippant to comment this topic, saying: "it's impossible to explain something that is NOT" ?

Gender in perfumes is not just 'marketed'. It starts much earlier. Gender in perfumes is 'composed' as part of the creative process. I honestly believe that perfumers either need a vision, or a brief. That vision or brief often has to do with an imagined person who will wear the creation, maybe even a person in a specific situation, time of the year, etc. I trust that perfumers know very well what notes to combine in order to create 'masculine' or 'feminine' impressions in our minds when we smell such accords. Vol de Nuit - the woman in a pilots life, more than the pilot himself, I speculate. L'Heure Bleue: slow sunset in a city, the attraction of togetherness, the sadness of loneliness; and yet, a woman clearly involved in whatever I see (rename both, and I will still call them feminine in a blind test.)

Then of course, there are perfumes where gender differences are not obvious, as is the case with certain denims - the wearer gives them shape and final destination. Ok, you have the Malles and Lutens which are often not gender labeled. Still, 70% of these have either been created for men or women, but NOT to be neutral enough that they could be worn by both.

And then there are things like Avignon or Rose Poivrée, and those landscapes (Jardin du..., sur..., en ...) which are perhaps perceived as simply human and not gender specific, or not even sexy. I think these can be explained. But to explain these things to a majority for whom perfume is merely an attribute of their own vanity ? I wouldn't even bother to try !

I really think it depends on the person. If you have a strong, individual person crossing the gender specific line, it may raise a few eyebrows but others will let it pass as quirky. If you let it bother you and therefore try to hide it, well then you'll have a problem making it work. Some people brazenly flaunt it and it works for them in that instance. If you have fear, it will never work. Simply ask others outright if they'd try it. If they reply in the negative, be bland in your reply that so many people do it that it's nothing to be ashamed of. You're more shocked by people who DON'T. And that they can reference Basenotes to see what you mean if they don't believe you. That makes it safe for them to try it later after giving that some consideration. Now they have permission to be free in their choices. If others are doing the same thing...well then why not? And if it's you you're worrying about most, that maybe someone will notice and comment-then smile brazenly as I mentioned before and fearlessly throw it in their face. Smile and rave about how much you love this one, that your chemistry makes it manly on you.

err.

I'll be the first to admit that playing the "brazen card" very often is effective. Hell, I've used it myself. And I see people all the time in my work who are as dumb as a cement block, and still manage to swagger into meetings as if they were just handed stone tablets by God himself. But this technique only works on certain people: people who are completely unaware of the technique, people who are blissfully indifferent to office politics, people who are very unsure of themselves, etc. But I've also seen plenty of people get their heads handed to them while they're dishing it out. It doesn't just depend upon who is delivering; it also depends upon who is in the audience receiving.

I just say that by definition their is no such thing as a man or woman fragrance, that anybody can where whatever they want.
That usually shuts'em up

That is why you always make sure your confidence level is higher than your opposing audience. Even if they are higher in rank and can get you fired.

I do my best at work as it is my ethos, but deep down I think "Yeah whatever. So what if you can get me fired. I don't need this job even during these hard economic times - and I know it and most importantly - I know you know I know it."

Next time I have a big important meeting day at work, I'm going to wear Beyond Paradise for women. There will be no mistake that the guy in the immaculately fitted conservative clothes is the one emitting the prim white flowers smell. :P

Well, here's an idea then, if brazen doesn't work with your audience...just don't give a sh*t. Hehehe.

I think it's also much easier for a woman to pull off men's fragrances than the other way around.

Hi sweetie

I think that men smell sublime in a wonderful floral based scent, even better sometimes than the heavy masculines. It seems to work wonders with their chemistry.
It is funny how a century ago men wore floral based scents, it was common-place, it was the norm. Well I think more men should, especially rose and lilac based scents. MMMM delicious.

As you are so certain about this, dear Brielle, and as I have a profound interest in masculine perfuming habits in history, please take me by the hand and guide me to some of your sources for this.

Simple. Buy them a bottle of Creed Chèvrefeuille Original.
Expensive but simple.

----------------------------

" So I said to my girlfriend; ' That's OK I'm secure in my masculinity! '
She said: ' You shouldn't be.' "

-- Bobby Pollock.
--------------------------------

Cheers,

Mario

If I were to attempt to describe it, I'd say that it's exactly the same as with men and women's handbags.
Men have those solid leathery ones, or black cases, whereas women have all those expensive colourful designer bags.
They all have exactly the same function - to carry things around in. They can be used interchangeably, there's no effective difference between them. As evidence, consider that some women like to use the "men's" bags. And presumably, some men like using the women's handbags.
Renato

Well, maybe men and women's jeans might be a better example?
I only used handbags as the example as I've become a bit of an expert at buying them for my wife.
Renato

Jeans are as good an example as handbags. The difference of the M/F versions of denims are rather small, but our radar will definitely notice them. I could also pair perfumes where the gender difference is technically small but sufficiently obvious to sensitive noses. I find that jewelry and many of the wrist watches share the beautifying (ornamental) function with perfumes, and both are rather gender specific too. I never saw a pair of wedding rings (the plain bands) where the man's version was made to look smaller and more delicate than the woman's. It's derived from nature.

Yes, there are fragrances that are gender neutral, but most of what people buy is not. And it is not marketers who are responsible for that! People near the zenith of their sexual existence seem to love celebrating their own bodies and body mergers. They often use perfumes which support the celebration of self and support being attractive to others. In this particular period, perfumes applied are then perceived as being gender specific, I am convinced. Some may get a kick out of exchanging plus and minus poles, but the principle remains still the same !

Well, I tend to agree with you Narcus but what about all those fragrances labeled "unisex? "
Is it a marketing ploy? Is it a natural (or unnatural) trend ? A fad? Or is it simply that the marketers are too confused themselves?

Granted, I find some obviously silly, e.g; Pink Sugar (?)

But what of the others in our wardrobe? Are they truly 'gender neutral ' or has something gone awry in how they've been marketed?

Cheers,

Mario

Interesting how you as the Swiss bring up watches.

As for watches, my fave watch is my sleek black Citizen Eco-Drive that a woman could wear too (it's got a small 34mm face, black leather band). To the guys who believe in the masculine/fem divide, I bet they all only wear big f-off 45mm "manly" Chronograph/Chronometer stainless steel watches with 500 different functions, and probably would classify that Citizen watch or anything slim and under 35mm as too "feminine".

Interestingly enough, that 34mm face Citizen watch is marketed as "men's watch" - there's an even smaller "women's" version. But the reason I did not buy the women's version is that it's so small, I'll have to squint and bring my wrist really close to read the f-ing dial.

But hey, wearing that 34mm "feminine" watch will not interfere with my ability to still place an accurately-placed hit against an aggro guy in a pub who calls me a "Oy mate, you're wearing a girls' watch!" To me, perfume or watch doesn't make a man "manly" or "less manly." But things like flooring an aggro guy in a fight, however, is a universal definition of manliness acknowledged from the cold of the Siberian tundra all the way to the heat of the Sahara.

Some Citizens are beautiful, I think. And what you say confirms the general principle I had been trying to find examples for. Products are mostly gender specific in their design because people, as a whole, are happier with that, and producers sell more when they follow such desires. The frequent marketers bashing in fragrance discussions of the past ignored the fact that marketing people are serious professionals that need to justify the money they cost, not ideologists with the obsession to dictate styles and habits. It would be cheaper to have a wide variety of gender neutral products, of course: neutral perfumes in gender neutral bottles! In a world like that I would want to be the odd one out producing feminine perfumes in light pink. Some might want to demolish my shop windows, but most of the others would help me being a billionaire within no time.

Some of us certainly remember communist uniformity and how colorful things have become after the walls and curtains had tumbled. Diamond studded golden Rolexes are now favored by a new generation of wealthy Russians and new leaders in other growing economies, I heard. I don't know if that is true. But I know for sure that I wouldn't want to own a Rolex. I love slim, plain faced watches of the late 20th, preferably from Geneva. They usually come in gold, gold plated or chrome with a plain leather strap. But the style of my watch is mainly determined by the functions I want it to have. So, what do I wear? A no-name (Swiss) chrome watch with integrated steel band, date and day, fluorescent digits and arms, water and shock proof enough for the lake and in the snow. I need to be able to read it at night time occasionally. With an outdoor temperature well below freezing I must take care that it doesn’t freeze off my forearm. So it goes into a pocket sometimes. It is 40mmm in diameter, which is quite modest for a tall man. It is not too expensive in case it gets stolen. I don’t know if this model has a feminine twin. Most likely It does because the partner look is still en vogue. And talking of that: it’s the women who usually make all the compromises to match their male partner's appearance.

The first wrist watches, by the way, had been designed for women. Their dresses didn't have those handy pockets men are blessed with. Some men proudly presented a beautiful watch chain fixed to their gilet (vest). It and the cigar have been status attributes of the boss . At least that's how movie makers use these accessories now. I keep to the habit of wearing a handkerchief in my trousers. It's usually perfumed. However when I go perfume testing I need two in virginal state. :-)


You gave me a lot to ponder on, and it took a while. I think it is more than a fad. I see it as a fast spreading trend since about 1980. We might as well call it an explosion. Now we are in it too deep to ask ourselves whether or not this is healthy and natural. Confusing as it still is to me, I accept it as a concept which may need some sorting out but promises a widening of our fragrant realms.

I think this thread here would have been worth discussing at the center of topics on either the male or the industry board. Should I be ready to formulate my personal dilemma with uniscents (shared fragrances) it will be on a different forum.

I was just thinking about this today, aren't all fragrances unisex?

If you're wearing a frag and the women like it then obliviously it's targeting the women crowd so why couldn't they wear it as well? Although I do see how certain women's frags might smell nice but may make a guy feel self conscious about wearing it, but there's a very thin line though.

Ascribing a gender to a scent is, to me, on par with and as silly as ascribing gender to flavors of food. We cannot choose how we respond sensually. We can choose what we wish to smell like. I like the smell of Yatagan, for instance, but I do not wish to smell like it. (Not usually, anyway..) There are other things I'd rather smell like, because I connect more with those scents and I like the way they make me feel.

That being said, Narcus, I agree with you about the vision of a given perfume being gender-specific. The vision may be, but the actual scent is not. The trend you spoke of, uniscents and their marketing, maybe it is as simple as shifting paradigms in society?

All I know is that my natural instinct, and personality, initially lead me to women's fragrance counters and fragrances marketed towards women. As I try 'masculines' and 'unis', I notice that I just like, by chance or no, fragrances marketed towards women better than the other. Whatever this means in conjunction with my place in the world right now, I know not. I do know that essentially, every single one of us will wear what we connect with.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.

Simple, some fragrances are so brilliant, that they exceed the narrow confines of gender.

I have stopped trying to explain to people. I just say if you like it, wear it.

mostly it doesn't matter except for having to deal with the SA's looks when you want to try on a fragrance that isn't marketed to your gender. Jeez you'd think they would be used to letting whoever wants try on the fragrance rather than being a sentinal trying to keep people from trying it.

I simply don't.

I refer them to Basenotes, a site full of knowledgable people, perhaps also mentioning the expert Luca Turin, who is definitely married to a woman.

I normally start at the male section with a SA then go to the female section with the same SA following the scent by perfumer! I also get the SA involved in sniffing and asking for her opinions! This goes quite along way as you end up educating them discretly.

I think what SunnyFunny said makes the most sense. Smell can't have a gender, it's like taste. There aren't man foods and woman foods, really. It isn't like jeans, if I wear jeans they have to be sewn to fit a woman, and I am not even a very curvy lady. Jeans for men and women are different because we are built different.

Do agree that this is easier socially for females, at least where I live, it is always acceptable for women to wear items that were originally "menswear" and so on. Like I *could* wear boy jeans and get away with it, they would just squash my butt and be too big in the waist, but it is less likely that a man my age could wear women's jeans without attracting negative attention.

I don't actually run into any questions about girl/boy smells except when selling perfumes. Then I do get people asking specifically for men's or women's scents, and actively rejecting the idea of crossing over that line. I do think it helps with the marketing, and that is what it is for, and that is all it is for. So many people are more comfortable with something that is gender-labeled, it makes perfumes easier to sell to most people.

Some women's scents are blatantly "manlier" than some man scents.
I don't think it is just marketing that men and women chose different scents. It probably boils down to what image one has of oneself/wants to show to the world. Just like many men probably would not sit together and eat little pink cakes and have a cup of camomile tea, just like many women perhaps wouldn't sit around with pints of bitter, burping. Some women want to appear neat, cute, pretty and thus are eager to smell this way, flowery, sweet, but of course there will also be women who want to appear tougher, some men want to appear tough and strong, hence try to smell that way, woody, leathery, outdoorsy. Only chocolate gourmands unite them all as everybody loves chocolate (and it drops panties, apparently)

I dont even bother. They either get it or miss out.

Good point. Women can get away with a lot of things that men usually can't, without being perceived in a 'negative' way.

Extending on the above example, I find many men's tops too baggy for my slim frame. A few years ago, I discovered a couple of brands that I really like that produce exactly the same tops in both men's and women's sizes. So, to solve my problem, I've resorted to purchasing the women's sizes because they fit me better (small or medium usually suits me best).

Because there's nothing tellingly 'feminine' about these tops, no-one asks any questions. However, if I said they were 'women's tops', just imagine the reactions! If ever in that situation, I'd tell simply them: "There's a big difference between wearing women's tops and wearing unisex tops in a woman's size".

Whether it's clothes or fragrances, there are too many brainwashed / insecure numskulls out there who need to start thinking for themselves...