Riddle me this Strange Marriage Situation

My wife and I were engaged for about a year and dated for about a year and a half. With that in mind, the engagement lasted as long as it did because we were still in college, and we also planned the wedding a year in advance to get ready, send out invitations, and give people time to plan, put it in their schedules, and save up a little money to fly down to Texas to join us.

While I'm morally against long engagements (might as well just go get married if it is that long), what concerns me is the personality of these two which you described. Hopefully, God willing, they can work over their shortcomings and build a long-lasting relationship together.

Something about marriage and living with someone changes your life. You see the best and worst in your spouse. One of my favorite stories I like to tell people thinking about getting married is one that I heard from a Baptist preacher. Guy and gal got married, were totally in love with one another. Thought the moon and stars shone in their eyes. Each other thought the other utterly flawless. They got married. Hadn't had relations before marriage. Et cetera. The wedding night came and she had to go to the bathroom before sex. And he could hear her in the next room while waiting in bed.

The guy was literally shocked. He told this fellow next week at church and he said, "Well, when you get married, you have to deal with farting."

The point of that gross little story is that we all have to deal with crap and farting in marriage - whether it is physical or mental.

This is why marriages normally break up within the first five years. It is based mostly on sex and it doesn't have a strong basis in anything other than that.

Maybe her parents are wielding their influence? They can't stop her from marrying this guy, but they can convince her to prolong it...maybe hoping for more certainty in their relationship? Just a possiblility. (from a mothers perspective! )

Fear.

Does an "engaged to be married" man "play the field" while engaged? I never thought there was any field playing during an engagement. Call me old fashioned.

This is a classic, textbook example. So much so that it reeks of its obviousness.


Count your blessings that this isnt your problem.

These situations are fairly common and are pretty easy to come by. Your friend is exactly right, (most usually), its the product of the same set of conditioning circumstances. An overwhelming majority of females who find themselves in the classic, archetypal subordinate position have almost always assumed that role as a result of poor father figures and a lack of positive male presence in general. A mother is responsible for establishing the feminine persona in her daughter, while her father establishes the standard for contact, behavior, and relationships with the opposite sex. From what you said alone, several things can be assumed and established about this girl

1) She has no grasp of the concept of independence and self sufficiency. Her parents have carried her emotional and physical needs utterly and completely up until this point, at which she has unloaded her (volatile) emotional needs on the next man in her life
2) She has never been pushed to accomplish anything. Because she has never had to strive to succeed or put effort forth, most likely she will find that she will grow tired of the majority of her relationships and eventually she will fall out of them, just as she falls out of one job after another, and I assume this also accounts for her inability to commit to an education
3) Her parents have obviously permitted this behavior, and by allowing it, they have subconsciously instituted a regime of positive-reinforcement for a behavior that is essentially negative and potentially highly damaging in the long run.
4) She is completely inexperienced. Thus far, she has two models of relationships in her life. The first is her parents, and while I cannot comment on the status and stability of their relationship, it would seem that they must not have a very close one, and respective mother-daughter and father-daughter ties are probably loose and emotionally casual. Her second model is whatever ex-boyfriend she has, and for whatever reason, that relationship failed, most likely do to volatile and impetuous behavior on her part (evidenced by the tattoo of his name on her wrist)

If they get married and stay married long enough to have kids, it will most definitely ruin their relationship and result in divorce, which will subsequently create a damaging environment for child development and potentially sets the stage for this cycle to continue. While I make no judgment call on these people personally, it is obvious that both of these people are highly irresponsible and incredibly lonely, which together is a very dangerous combination. They should have the common sense to put the brakes on whatever it is they are doing before it results in something irreversible, like a child, as that is unfair to the both of them and more importantly, the child itself.

My question to you is this: Why is this an issue that concerns you so much? From your prior posts you seem to be very engrossed in your cynical outlook of relationships in general. I don't condone cheating, and in my eyes, the "other person" is just as much as fault as the person that cheated. You shouldn't hook up with a girl you know has a boyfriend, regardless of how much she is coming onto you. Regardless of whether or not it is your problem, it is a self respect issue. You should never be willing to lower yourself to the level of being the "other person". If you are someone with anything decent to offer, and you have described yourself as a handsome, fit dude, there is no reason that you should not be able to find someone worthwhile as your equal to share your time with.

I think you are looking at this all the wrong way. It has less to do with the idea that love does not exist anymore and more to do with that people nowadays are growing more and more impatient and irresponsible. For most people, marraige is an upgraded, logical step past the relationship phase, which is completely wrong. Marraige is because you have decided you want to spend the rest of your life with this person and feel the need to consummate that vow. One does not (and should not) get married to have children. Children are just the product of a happy and healthy marriage. A marriage held together solely by the fact that you had children with someone is a miserable marriage indeed and will most likely end extremely bitterly with severe emotional fallout for the children. Living in an area as wealthy as orange county, I can't tell you how many of my friends families have twisted and distorted dynamics which have wreaked untold havoc upon the emotional stability and logistics of it's members. Money can only buy entertainment, not happiness.

You should lose the bitter attitude, dude. After a big heartbreak a couple years ago, I had the same exact outlook but I eventually realized that one bad experience is just that, a bad experience, and there is no reason to assume the actions of one person reflect the sentiments of their gender as a whole. It's not an issue of girls being meaner to boys or vice versa, its just that people are completely irresponsible and out of touch with their emotions, which results in self-hurt and the hurt of everyone they become intimate with

Live your life open to the possibility that one day, you will meet a special someone and they will be just as scared of opening up to you as you are to them, and yet you both will want to find the courage to take the plunge.

If I could sum it all up, I would say that Alfred Lord Tennyson was totally right when he said "It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all". Every experience is an opportunity to learn something, grow, and emerge a stronger person from that event.

Life is a great big videogame, my friend, but a high score is meaningless if you achieve it on your own.

Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm playing the SIMS. We still have folding chairs in our living room.

I can't explain others' behavior, but as for myself, my parents were my role models as well. They met and were married within 1 year. No engagement. They've been married over 35 years, now. So, as a result, I don't believe in long engagements either. In fact, I don't think we were ever engaged. We just decided to get married, and did so very similarly to both of our parents. We eloped, much to the consternation of my mother's very large Catholic family who were upset enough that their oldest daughter eloped, only to have their oldest grandchild do the same thing.

But the apples don't fall far from the tree.

Goose is right. If anything you should be a supportive friend to this couple, no matter how their marriage turns out.

And hope for the best.

First off, you've pretty much answered your own question. You've stated this girl has severe psychological issues stemming from her father, physical abuse, possible sexual abuse, complete lack of parenting and guidance, and a host of other factors. This girl is a textbook case and what she needs is a therapist, not a boyfriend (unfortunately, neither is a role you can fill, though its not really any fault of your own).

It's obvious that this girl will sabotage any relationship she finds herself in, assuming that she doesn't end up with someone who will emotionally or physically abuse the hell out of her first. As a result of that, there is no way that you two could have a successful, meaningful, and most importantly, healthy relationship until she has those issues resolved. As far as being a piece of emotional steel, I think she is probably more of a broken record, too busy repeatedly going through her tired motions to hear or respond to anyone.

I don't know how old she is, but she is like a 16 year old on the inside, and that's definitely not serious relationship material. At this point in your life, you should be over playing games, and so should be anyone that you bother to spend your time with. Your reaction to petty "mind games" (they probably arent even deliberate, just a manifestation of subconscious feelings) is solely in the realm of your control, and it's up to you how you react to her. Feeling negative and depressed only makes you feel worse, look immature, and feeds whatever twisted ego/motivations are driving her actions. This girl probably doesn't even know how she feels about herself, so I doubt she is giving much thought about how she feels about anyone else, except maybe in relation to her immediate self. If it is so obvious that she is incapable of sustaining even a friendship, you should be the bigger person, cut your losses, and keep your relationship professional.

Furthermore, regardless of what you think of her behavior or her fiancee, it is not your place to comment on their relationship or attempt to interfere with it, even if it's under the guise of "helping" her (you are not her therapist). If she comes to you one day with a serious question and asks your legitimate advice on her situation, then would be the appropriate time to offer your feelings and opinion. Remember, this girl is a person with legitimate psychological issues as a result of numerous trauma over an extended period of time, and she is not your project. You cannot "save" her.

The world is literally split evenly down the middle with the genders, and there is a whole society out there full of women your age who are smart/funny/successful/talented/whatever it is you are seeking, and furthermore, have the emotional maturity and stability necessary to facilitate a relationship. As good friends as you were with her, this girl is not someone who has some sort of fundamental emotional impact on your life, and you should not consider her problems your own (doing so will get you nowhere). You should simply wish her the best and move on with no hard feelings.

Out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to physically track down her boyfriend more than a year after they had broke up, when you had never even known them when they were together? That''s her past, not yours, and as unfortunate as it is that she was physically abused, wanting to seek out the culprit is highly out of proportion considering that the matter technically did not concern you in any way. From what I can tell, I think you need to maybe take another look at the way you assign gender roles and behaviors. The whole "super macho" thing is really unnecessary, and the only girls you will attract with it will be girls like the one you described, who are physically dependent on some sort of domineering male presence in their lives. I don't know if that's what you are looking for, but that's not what I would want for myself.

All in all, you should just stop worrying about her. Whatever she will do you have no control over. There is no reason to be rude, but there is also definitely no reason to get depressed over her.

I have to agree with the Goose here. Ultimately, if you are her 'rescuer' (aka - 'father figure') you will end up resenting having to do everything for her. You will eventually wonder why she can't do for herself. The same applies to women who are 'mothering'. A woman doesn't need or want to be a mother to her husband. IMO (my husband & I are married 21 years) a marriage must be between 2 adults. I use the word 'adult' to specify not only chronologic age, but mental & emotional maturity. Really it is a partnership. The committment of marriage encompasses the entireity of the individuals...beyond the physical. My marriage has been strengthened by hardships. We share the burdens and the joys, not always equally, but back and forth. Sometimes our greatest happiness comes from conquering an incredible challenge, knowing it did not destroy us. Hopefully this is making sense to you, I don't know how else to describe marriage but for my own experience. My husband is my partner, my friend, lover, confidant, my most ardent supporter. I try my very best to be the same for him. We always play on the same team. Find someone who doesn't NEED you - but WANTS you. Completely.

Important distinction, ubu. And I agree.

If you keep trying to save people, they forget how to save themselves. I learned that the very hard way. Professional relationship is fine, but I'm sorry to say that I agree with DerangedGoose (I agree with a DerangedGoose?!?!?) that she is broken, and will probably not be fixed. By therapy, or anything else.

I used to try to fix people. My ego gets in the way, you see. And always I feel I must fix people.

Then I learned to put aside my ego and say, some broken things just remain broken. And I can be smarter, more beautiful, more nice, more charming, and these people are *still* F-ing broken. And the drama and toxicity they attract in life follows those who try to help them, and brings them down with it. And, after seeing what that kind of toxicity in my life did to my own family (who worried about me immensely during those times), I realized it wasn't worth it. My family (who is stable and non-toxic) was worth more to me than broken losers who refuse help.

I think C.S. Lewis said it best in "The Four Loves": Love is a matter of choice. Where there is true freedom, there is true love. Of course, I'm paraphrasing it.

I think finding someone who doesn't NEED you is the important thing. That's not love. That's infatuation. Today's love songs are littered with elements in this vein. "I need you, baby. I gotta have it," sort of mentality. Also, people tend to think that there is a "perfect person out there for them." A yin to their yang. I tend to disagree. Love isn't a matter of finding a person you have been destined to be with. Love is choice.

My wife asks me at times, "Why do you love me?" I tell her, "Because I chose you."

That's a pretty good one, actually.

Oh, and, welcome to 'The club of men with taller girlfriends / wives'.

I dunno why, but women who can't stick up for themselves annoy me. If a woman has to call her boyfriend to protect her, I consider her a useless wimp. Any woman worth her salt should do her best not to put herself in a position to be abused or used. And if she does somehow find herself in a bad way, she should always know what to do to get revenge. Legally, of course.

"A woman of hot temper, and a man the same, is a less dangerous enemy than one quiet and clever." -- "Medea" by Euripides

I like 'em tall! Probably because I'm 5'2" and shorter than the rest of the average male population.

Not true, I guess it depends on the type of crowd you hang around with. What people do with their relationships is none of my business or yours. All of this analyzing into their personal life is very intrusive and I am getting a red flag, here...

Adding, if you are casually dating someone and you decide to date someone else, that's not "cheating." If you are living with someone or have made declarations of love, loyalty, etc, it is.

Agreed. In my experience, the observations made here about women and relationships are broad generalizations of a particular group of people that share similar emotional baggage and damage. These types of people tend to bind together out of common need (as does any group of people with shared experience or interests), and because the rest of us get tired of having their drama spill over into our lives. These characterizations are not at all representative of my friends and acquaintances.