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Has C&S No. 88 Gone Through Another Reformulation?

post #1 of 22
3/12/09 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 
I received a sample of No. 88 through their sites recent sign-up giveaway. I'm not entirely sure, but I think it went through another reformulation. It smells a lot different than the sample I had prior, not from the vintage bottle that came with the grey cylinder tube.

There's something very odd and citrusy in the topnotes that smells like spearmint bubblegum and then it dries down into a very linear concentrated spicy incense base mixed with something else I can't detect. The cloves seem to be brought up a lot and the rose (or rose otto) is almost non-existing.

It also seems to have lost a lot. Non-soapy, no lavender, no vapor aura, etc...

I'm I crazy or has it changed a little?
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post #2 of 22
3/13/09 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsamadi View Post

the rose (or rose otto) is almost non-existing

Like you, nsamadi, I only recently received my wonderful samples from C&S. Unlike you, however, I have no past experiences upon which to draw. I was blown away by 88. After about ten minutes of confusion after the initial blast, the rose, that black brooding rose, came through loud and clear, taking me completely by surprise! And it stayed around for hours.
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post #3 of 22
3/13/09 at 1:34am
As I said already if y our previous sample was one with an atomizer this might be it. When you have to dab it it looks often different, specially a bit weaker.

My new bottle has arrived today (with a Neroli as well ) . I ll tell you how I feel it after having tried the "new" juice tonight.
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post #4 of 22
3/13/09 at 2:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsamadi View Post

There's something very odd and citrusy in the topnotes +
It also seems to have lost a lot. Non-soapy, no lavender, no vapor aura, etc...
I'm I crazy or has it changed a little?


you said it. it feels a lot thinner and fresher and is stripped down of it dense, powdery soapy aura. and where is the sandalwood? it's a shame.

btw, it's not changed a little, but a lot.
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post #5 of 22
3/13/09 at 3:46am
I tested it yesterday from the sample I received from C&S too and I have the same feelings of you guys. No more strong rose otto liqueur but just a not so comfy rose incense cheap stick burning there.
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post #6 of 22
3/13/09 at 3:55am
Such sad news. Everytime I think I've found a "holy grail", something to wear like a "signature scent" - it get's reformulated. Now I'll have to keep my old bottle for special occasions. Shit.
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post #7 of 22
3/13/09 at 4:10am
An inferior reformulation of an already inferior reformulation? Where will it end?
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post #8 of 22
3/13/09 at 4:43am
Yeah.
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post #9 of 22
3/13/09 at 9:34am
I have done a side by side test of No. 88 with a sample from the recently disbursed samples and the recent reformulation of No. 88, and I DO NOT detect any differences. Furthermore, the IFRA list of ingredients on the No. 88 sample card is identitical to that on the box of the recently reformulated No. 88.

The confusion and panic has arisen in this instance, I suspect, with how people apply samples. When applying from a sample vial, most people don't actually apply enough fragrance on the skin for it to develop fully. Hence judgments made from an inadequate daub will usually tend to be, well, inadequate. If you use samples, it's a good idea to go heavy on the dabbing to the point where you cover an area of skin the size of a silver dollar, or about the circumfrence of a golf ball. A one ml vial should ideally supply two applications. Only then will you really be giving the fragrance a chance to develop and show its true character. When you think of it, a good spray from any sprayer will deliver about that much fragrance on your skin without any problems.

In answer to jenson's question, there is definitely not the same amount of sandalwood in the reformulated version. In the reformulation of Czech & Speake No. 88, there was a change from a predominantly sandalwood base to a more sandalwood vetiver type base.

I will say this, I think the reformulated version is still an outstanding fragrance in its own right. The original vintage Italian formulation is unmatchable, a paragon of the perfumer's art. I think of it as an EDP version of the new formulation, not only stronger and richer but also slightly, but significantly, different. I value both the original vintage Italian formulation, and the reformulation for that matter, more highly than any other niche fragrance I have tried, and I have tried as many as is humanly possible in this age where niche releases are becoming as common as the most common designer scents and as disappointing.

scentemental


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post #10 of 22
3/13/09 at 9:57am
Great post.

I kept saying here and in the other topic about C&Z that such a difference can be often noticed when compared between vial and spray samples but no one was listening to me

I agree about the rest too.
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post #11 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:18am
i have three samples (including this new one) and all are in vial format... i tried as much as possible to Dab equal strength on upper forarm....the difference is quite obvious, earlier i thought, maybe my older decant lost some of its purity and is heading straight into it's heartnotes where it exudes this luxurious , dense accord of sandalwood...but then, the new one never attained that luxurious depth of sandalwood in it's midnotes... now that Scentemental is confirming there is no change, ill have another go at it.
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post #12 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc_Xel View Post

Great post.

I kept saying here and in the other topic about C&Z that such a difference can be often noticed when compared between vial and spray samples but no one was listening to me

I agree about the rest too.

I was listening Roc_Xel. I should have mentioned it was your post that gave me the idea to post along the lines I did. For that I thank you, and please accept my apologies for neglecting to refer to your post.

scentmental
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post #13 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson View Post

i have three samples (including this new one) and all are in vial format... i tried as much as possible to Dab equal strength on upper forarm....the difference is quite obvious.

Same here. I poured my vial into an atomizer and sprayed it side by side with my other sample of No. 88. I still detect a slight difference as described before.

I'll still give it another try....I don't have the best nose either.
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post #14 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:29am
I didn't detect any differences.
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post #15 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsamadi View Post

Same here. I poured my vial into an atomizer and sprayed it side by side with my other sample of No. 88. I still detect a slight difference as described before.

I'll still give it another try....I don't have the best nose either.

Here's a simple thing not to do.

Don't smell one version of the fragrance right after the other.

Your nose is accustomed to and fatigued at the same time from the initial smell, and the second sniff you take of the other version of the fragrance will ALWAYS smell weaker and different.

Allow a certain amount of time to pass between sniffs, or, at the very least, clear your nose buy taking a sniff of say the sleeve of your jacket or hoodie, which well clear the lingering traces of your first sniff from your nose and give you a better basis for comparison. Of course, you have to try really hard to remember that first sniff and exactly what it smelled like as you take another sniff of the other arm or hand. It's not as easy or as fool proof as it seems, and I can imagine many people have been comparing things the wrong way for a long time.

scentemental

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post #16 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:47am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely do that right-after my nose break.
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post #17 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:51am
Thnx for the tip scentemental !
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post #18 of 22
3/13/09 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsamadi View Post

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely do that right-after my nose break.

I like that, yeah, take a "nose break."

I have found that writing down one's impressions works really well. It's hard to hold everything in your head. Articulating sensory perceptions in words, contrary to what one might imagine, actually helps one formulate one's impressions more precisely; although, articulating things precisely, like sniffing precisely, takes time and practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson View Post

Thnx for the tip scentemental !

You're always welcome jenson.

scentemental
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post #19 of 22
3/13/09 at 12:31pm
Of course I had to try this.


I bought my bottle of 88 couple of years ago; it is that one with the black box. I recently got that sample set from C&S, and although 88 was included I didn`t even try it because I naturally presumed it was the same juice that I have in my bottle.

About an hour ago I put few dabs from that vial to my left hand, and a spray from my bottle to my right hand; exactly the amount I thought came out from the vial.

Now I`ve been spying this scent with my all of my sense of smell sharpened, streched to the max of my capacity, and....I see no difference whatsoever.


Thank the Lord for small mercies...
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post #20 of 22
3/13/09 at 2:23pm
Ok I just received my brand new bottle shiped directly from C&Z and could test it well tonight.

Don t worry, it s absolutetly sure now, it is the same (amazing) juice. Seems to me way more potent than my vial sample but that s probably because of the spray, that "works" great btw. Besides this fact that it looks more potent it is exactly the same as before. It is really powerful and so potent, it has not ¨been made weaker at all, i m totally sure about it.

It came in the beautifufl black box.

By the way, i ordered a brand new Neroli bottle at the same time and it is also way more potent than the vial sample when it comes out of the bottle. Much better projection than the sample.

I m also sure it would be the same with Dark Rose

What a great house..
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post #21 of 22
3/15/09 at 12:26am
Thread Starter 
Did a retest later this evening. Used a silver dollar sized application with the vial on the wrist and took plenty of time between whiffs. Yup, they are identical. Sorry about that.
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post #22 of 22
3/15/09 at 11:12pm
Wonderful news - glad to hear that there have been no further changes to No. 88. However I still am waiting, one of these days, to get the chance to buy a vintage bottle.
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