Vintage 101 - advice, please.

Wish I could help, Veuve Amiot but I'm sure those you mention can. I have read a lot about vintage and would love to try more but I am not a fan of eBay so for me it's just being nosy in my home town whenever I'm out and about. I found a funky little pharmacy selling mainly Chinese medicine but at the back of the shop there was some stuff from the 80s - Parure & Vol de Nuit EDCs and old Maxims pH and Yatagan, so I grabbed 'em (and I really like them). I'm off to Shanghai next week and will probably hit the second hand market street there Saturday afternoon. It seems a lot of the best vintage stories are pure chance finds . . . happy hunting

Don't know how much help this will be, Veuve, but I saw your title and got kinda excited. And you all will appreciate this more than most, except my darling DH. I just spent a weekend at the coast checking out a bunch of antique shops, among other things. Most had something, some had nothing, one had 30mls of this
in that bottle.
I also bought an approximately 75% full Infini splash (not too old), minis of Organza parfum, Joy edt, and a small handful of obscure '40's & '50's stuff not listed in this database.
Check everything out! You'll be surprised at what you find at the most random places.

By no means am I an expert in vintage scents. I do have an interest in anti-mainstream scents (and by mainstream I mean sweetish, thin acquatics and fruity scents). I also have an interest in history and historical scents, and how tastes and styles change over the years and from generation to generation. So, vintage scents (discontinued scents, "relic" bottles) and also on-going classics (e.g., Victorian-era scents such as those by Trumper, Borsari, Penhaligons) appeal to me. Your reference to "density" is one that I can understand. Two scents in my collection, ones that I'd call vintage, have incredible density, of a kind that I don't find in modern scents. They are Silvestre by Victor and my prize Fougere Royale by Houbigant. These are both bottles from the early 60's and they are a time-capsule for me (and amazing scents in their own right).

So for me, the historical experience is part of the charm of these scents.

Good thread. I've been wondering about vintage as well (not that I'm going out and actually 'buying' it).

Here's my question for the group:

Should you be buying vintage bottles sealed (for the best quality juice)? I.e. if a splash bottle is open and half used -- would it mean that the juice has likely turned because of the exposure to air and 'dirty fingers'?

Does the same apply to spray bottles? Or they are 'safer' when open compared to splash bottles?

Thanks!

The general principle for aged items is the least exposure to air and contaminants, the better. Also cool-stored in the dark, but that is difficult to assess. So NIB (new in box, sealed with cellophane) is the gold standard. Spray is seens as having less potential for contaminants (skin cells, soap etc) than splash. Mostly full has less oxidization then half-full.

But the X factor is -- how rare is the juice, and how much do you crave it? The answer to that has lead to many compromises. Also how expensive or cheap the deal is.

Ew. Didn't think about that! I was just stoked at my find! Would the level of alcohol counteract any level of contaminent? Not that I'm worried about getting sick over a used splash bottle, but "additives" (cough) are grosssss!

p.s. I'm still excited about using it. Just a little bit .

I say go for it, Sunnyfunny. If it is quality juice it probably was used well and should be just fine. We will assume that the alcohol will be effective. Now if it was oil-based, that would be a more serious question.

Ody-- it is pdt. I've never used anything in that concentration before. Why would a higher oil percentage make any difference? And what kind of concentration is pdt, anyway?

Veuve-- this being my first experience wearing vintage vs. reformulated, I'll say that vintage Bellodgia is quite a bit different than the new one. It is deeper, spicier, and has better longevity. The newer is comparitively light and flowery, even in parfum strength. I'm not sure I'd recognise it as the same thing, if the labels didn't say so. I know Brielle has mentioned this particular difference quite a bit-- I get it now.

Hi again. Pdt (Parfum de Toilette) is a synonym for Eau de Parfum (EdP) which has the essential oil essences diluted in a 10-20% range. All of the terms EdP, EdC and EdT refer to the dilution of these minute amounts of fragrance essence in some medium. The majority of modern scents use ethanol as the medium, but some scents use an oil carrier.

My supposition was that the oil carrier might have a greater potential to interact with any contaminants than would alcohol. But here, I will confess to being an amateur in the field of science. Redneck Perfumisto is the real expert there, you might check with him.

Vintage, oy! Don't get me started. I have a little bit of experience gleaned the hard way. I have accumulated a stash of classic vintage, mostly from ebay, some good, some off. It is a crap shoot, honestly. I have found some bargains & I have wasted $. I guess, in the end it all evens out.

I really think with vintage, you have to be willing to gamble & lose. However, to increase the success rate, there are a few basic rules to which I try to adhere.
1. Usually buy sealed, air hasn't gotten in. If it's in a wrapped box, light is also out, even better.

2. Know your bottles. Keep an eye on the changing styles & know approx how old things are. Some of the items may be much older or more recent than it is claimed. This affects the price, alot!

3. Find the brands you like & keep a search in place on ebay. When "vintage Caron" comes up for instance, you will get an email for it.

4. Wait until the last day to bid to avoid raising the price too early, although if you really want it, the first bidder gets priority. So keep it in mind for that elusive vintage Tabac Blond bottle. Don't worry,you'll never get that one!

5. Dark juice is possibly flat. You might still be able to get the idea of the scent, but the life and zip will be gone. I have a bottle now that is very old & the scent is delicate, but intact. I only paid $20 for it and it was sealed in a box so it is just evaporation. I may try adding a little grain alcohol, if anyone has any ideas, let me know.

6. I have found some great stuff, but it has definitely been trial & error. Don't be discouraged & don't give up. I have even gotten bad vintage from TPC so it can happen any where. But good vintage is wonderful.

I found the scents I prefer (usually) by first trying the modern version. Take Dioressence for ex. I tried it & flipped for it. then I thought it must have been amazing in its heyday, & started looking for older bottles. Hint, just bcs it's very $$ doesn't mean it's really great. In fact, sometimes, the opposite.

I also really like Cabochard in its current form. It's a nice dry smoky aldehyde with a leather accord. And, even though the juice often goes dark, it is one that still smells lovely and there seem to be lots of them out there.

I think if you do your research and hear of this or that that is supposed to be good, you can give it a try. I wouldn't get too carried away, though. Each bottle is a snowflake, individual, a risk. That's true of modern frags, too. Some have been stored differently. you just never know. I have 3 modern bottles of Dioressence & whether they are diff formulas or batches I don't know, but they all smell different.

So Kumquat, would you forego buying used vintage bottles altogether? Even if the liquid looks good? Sealed vintage seems to be really hard to come by. I guess that's what drew me to the antique shops in the first place, knowing I wouldn't get a fb, but also knowing I'd be able to tenatively check the quality, and try some vintage for relatively few $$. The one I'm now wondering about is that Bellodgia. I got 1/4 bottle for $6. One way or the other, I get to smell something different, but I'm just wondering if it hasn't been compromised too much. It smells fine to me, but I don't know. I'm happy with it, but I'm thinking next time I should save my $6?

Oh, so you are wondering if it's good bcs you don't have anything to compare it to? Hmmm.. can't help there. If you smell some more you will know. I can't really explain what it smells like when it's 'off'. It's like when a wine is 'corked'. i didn't know that smell until someone pointed it out to me. Now I know it well. It's a musty, moldy smell, you never forget it!

Off perfume is like that. if you smell fresh, then you smell off, you know the difference. It def smells stale. I'd say if you don't want to part with $6 you aren't ready for the vintage game. Weenies not allowed

I will chime in here, I really feel strongly about this. On scents (hah, most things in life actually), there are two aspects to the expense.
(1) What you pay to get an item, a tangible asset.
(2) What you pay to get an experience, and the opportunity to learn and grow.

I am into both, but I certainly value #2 and thus view some glorious failures as all part of my learning curve -- an on-going investment in myself!

That cheery guy Nietzsche said it:
"A thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Die fröliche Wissenschaft (The Gay/Merry Science) 41

There actually wasn't a price on it when I bought it. I asked the gal at the counter, and she said, "Ohh, this is a good old one!" At which point I held my breath a little. I was perfectly happy with $6. It doesn't smell stale to me from my vantage.

I get what you two are saying, kumquat and ody; it's about what the gamble is worth. I'd say so far I've been pretty lucky. I must say, I've been pretty stoked about my newbie vintage finds. Thanks for starting this thread, Veuve!

Glad to hear you are stoked, Sunnyfunny.
Ultimately, any hobby should be ***FUN***.

Rolling the dice can be great fun, and most of my vintage purchases have been good. What odysseusm says about being prepared to accept the bad and indifferent outcomes philosophically seems important. Happy hunting!

Hope the pondering process is proceeding, veuve amiot.
Here is a recent vintage experience of mine.
If you look at the BN reviews of Vent Vert by Pierre Balmain, you'll see that there are two listings, old and new. The "old" is the vintage version. A very kind expert in Vent Vert sent me a vial of this. It is wonderful! (Thanks, 3x!)
The new(est) version is almost universally detested. It is a reformulation/new version that apparently is vastly inferior.
So here you get into the much-discussed area of reformulation as a reason for seeking out vintage juice.

What a wonderful exchange! I'd say it represents the heart of Basenotes: helpful, educated, respectful, supportive. And all done with words across the miles.

My experience with vintage is purely accidental. I happen to have loved men's fragrance since youth. Joining Basenotes revealed that my bottles of Chanel for Men, Chanel Antaeus, and Van Cleef & Arpel (acc. to scentemental, the rare(r) concentrated edt) were all original formulations, now changed.

Well, not quite purely accidental. Some members of BN sell vintage frags; you can find them as well on the website, Crystal Flacon. When I decided to try Hermes Bel Ami, I went for the vintage. I just received a free sample of vintage Habit Rouge. Thus, there are fragrances available in both vintage and recent formulations by which to learn. And chances are good you can buy them by the millilitre. With such a foundation, you'll have confidence when stumbling upon that dusty yet inviting flacon.