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Are you allowed to sell home made perfumes?

post #1 of 25
3/9/10 at 3:05am
Thread Starter 
I'm not planning to particularly, but out of interest, and if I wanted to, maybe for fundraising for instance, would I be contravening any laws?

For example:-
Is there any difference between selling oils and perfumers alcohol based perfumes?
Are there strict legistlations on the ingredients lists?
Do you need your perfume preparation area, (the 'kitchen' equivalent) to pass any hygine tests?
Do you need to be 'qualified' in any way to do so?

Is anyone familiar with such things, who may be kind enough to give any guidance here?
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post #2 of 25
3/9/10 at 1:49pm
Depends what the UK law is. Otherwise start your own website from which people can order.
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post #3 of 25
3/10/10 at 12:09am
Not in the EU. In order to sell them legally you need to get a cosmetics safety assessment for each product and blend. The legislation differs from 1 EU country to another. Bottom line: it's expensive. Oil based less than alcohol btw. UK fortunately has growing possibilities:
http://www.cosmeticsafetyassessment.com/

Also you can't work from inside a home cos of the fire and hazardous issues when working with pure perfume materials (also very nasty for the environment). However if you have a separate building on your property that fits all the legislation, that is a possibility.
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post #4 of 25
3/10/10 at 1:58am
Alot of people sell homemade stuff on Ebay.
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post #5 of 25
3/10/10 at 2:03am
Thread Starter 
Thank you Irena. Obviously a minefield. I shall need a degree to study that lot. lol.
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post #6 of 25
3/10/10 at 2:04am
You should have legal person in order to sell...
so that you can give bills and pay taxes or whatever...

Etsy, ebay and others.. I guess the sellers are under condition of those sites...
I guess..
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post #7 of 25
3/10/10 at 2:06am
Thread Starter 
I know people do, but I just wanted to know if it was strictly down the line legal. I see no trouble in mixing pre-tested oil blends actually, but when it is perfume alcohol and chemicals on peoples skin, does the matter change? I.e packaging and ingredient labelling laws etc
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post #8 of 25
3/10/10 at 2:13am
Thread Starter 
I've found these:-
http://www.gcstm.co.uk/

Lifted quote from site:-
"How do I get permission to make and sell soaps and toiletries?
You don't need permission to become a crafter, you do however need to comply with the legislation which relates to the end product. This basically means that you cannot sell any products to the public until they have been tested and certified safe by a chemist who has undergone specialist training. Before beginning selling you also have to register with the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR, was formerly the DTI). In short anyone can make and sell craft soap and toiletry items as long as they conform to the legislation. The legislation only relates to selling the product, it does not for example prevent you from making soaps and toiletries for personal use"
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post #9 of 25
3/10/10 at 2:15am
Thread Starter 
and another:-
http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file25422.pdf

I think I may stick to making them for myself and friends.........
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post #10 of 25
3/10/10 at 9:10am
Too bad that the bureaucrats' rules stifle small businesses thereby promoting the success of very large ones. Seems to be the way of the world these days.
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post #11 of 25
3/10/10 at 1:06pm
People sell homemade candles and soaps on Ebay. I don't think there's really a problem unless you are trying to start your own business. Maybe you can sell some on basenotes.
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post #12 of 25
3/10/10 at 11:34pm
There are a lot op people selling 'contraband' handmade toiletries But in the EU that's not (officially) legal, no. They are in USA.
It's really up you you though, especially how you would deal with the less pretty consequences (if someone gets a medical problem after using your homemade stuff and decides to sue you). The safety assessments are for the safety of both parties.
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post #13 of 25
3/11/10 at 3:40am
Nah, I know Dutch people that sell homemade soaps without a license. If you're making a safe product I don't think there will be any problem aswell.
In France one can buy handmade soaps all over the markets. Don't tell me they all have a license, it's common.
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post #14 of 25
3/11/10 at 5:40am
Thread Starter 
Perhaps one should sell the bottle and the contents are 'free'
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post #15 of 25
3/11/10 at 2:01pm
"anyone can make and sell [anything] as long as they conform to the legislation," is probably about right in most countries. But "the legislation," is going to include sales taxes in some countries, VAT in others, income taxes everywhere, license fees most places, occupational health and safety, environmental impact, etc, etc.

The occupational health and safety and the environmental regulations could save you injury, illness and serious loss of property value. Even if you just make stuff for your own use, it's a good idea to find out the basics in these areas. Does anyone know good on line sites with explanations of the rules in plain language?
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post #16 of 25
3/11/10 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
If I did want to sell anything in the future, I certainly don't have any problem with conforming to any legistlations. It's just knowing exactly what they are. Everything I have found is in such legal jargon that I either don't understand what is being asked for, or it looks very expensive to do it.

For someone who's interest lies at the moment with the massive world domination sales style of having a table at a local church fundraising fete. I'm not sure all this expense would quite be suitable, and although totally possible, would it be entirely suitable to do it without conforming.
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post #17 of 25
3/11/10 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

If I did want to sell anything in the future, I certainly don't have any problem with conforming to any legistlations. It's just knowing exactly what they are. Everything I have found is in such legal jargon that I either don't understand what is being asked for, or it looks very expensive to do it.

For someone who's interest lies at the moment with the massive world domination sales style of having a table at a local church fundraising fete. I'm not sure all this expense would quite be suitable, and although totally possible, would it be entirely suitable to do it without conforming.

I reckon your sales at a church fundraising fete would be okay unless the local council member ratted you out. (the regulations sound draconic in one way but sensible in another, health & safetywise.)
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post #18 of 25
7/12/10 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 
Just back to this issue for home made oils. If one has already bought something like a carrier oil which presumably has met all these requirements already in order to be sold, and then mixing that with EO's which upon presumably the same applies, then is mixing something together the same as actually making something in the eyes of the law?

I would love to think I could eventually sell my perfumes if I made them lovely and desirable enough, but I am a bit long in the tooth to be the law breaking type. I've never really got to the bottom of what crafters are allowed to do. Is it come under art or chemical applied substance? I'm sure all the magical oils on e-bay aren't legistlated and they have all sorts of stuff in them.
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post #19 of 25
7/12/10 at 8:27am
A basic principle of chemistry is that two substances that, by themselves, are innocuous can, when mixed together, form a dangerous product. This is not generally a problem in perfume-making, especially with EOs that have been used and mixed without incident for thousands of years, but I'm guessing that a lot of the regulation is inappropriately generalized from other areas like household cleaning products, which often contain harmful substances, potentially including ones generated during formulation.

As Actiasluna says, I don't see why you shouldn't sell your perfumes at places like church fundraisers. You can always say that you are not "selling" them, you're giving them away for a minimum donation of (whatever you want to sell them for). Then you cover your cost of materials and labor, plus whatever markup covers the percentage that goes to the organization putting on the fundraiser. Generally at events of this type the organization is either tax-exempt or assumes responsibility for paying taxes on what they collect.

I sometimes sell plants and other orchid-related items at fundraisers put on by orchid societies. In this case, I add a 20% markup to cover the society's commission, and they deal with reporting the sales tax. I do have a business license and deal with sales tax for my own local sales, but it seems like the orchid society sales might be similar to your church sales.
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post #20 of 25
7/12/10 at 10:09am
Perfumes fall under the laws applying to cosmetics. Within the UK, that means the EU Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations. It's not light reading, but what it boils down to is that products need to have undergone a safety assessment and follow ingredient labelling rules.

If you have a carrier oil from a guaranteed source, and EOs from a guaranteed source you're on to a good start. If you use:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmetics/cosing/
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cosmet...f_data.annexes

you can run your ingredients through to make sure there aren't any restrictions on them. Ifra has 'guidelines' too, so you can check to see if they have found any problems with individual ingredients.

http://www.ifraorg.org/public/index_...d/1/childid/12

The assessment part I'm a bit fuzzy on. I've read places that require only the formula/s and others that require the finished product, with packaging and labelling. You may be able to do a batch of formulas at one time. For proper info (and pricing) you're going to have to get in touch with a cosmetic safety assessor, but I believe there are places that will provide the service in the hundreds rather than thousands, especially for something fairly simple. e.g. http://www.cosmeticsafetyassessment.com/

It IS do-able!

You'll also need to register as self-employed and submit tax returns once you start to sell, but that isn't too tricky (honest!).
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post #21 of 25
7/13/10 at 3:22pm
Thread Starter 
If I want to be serious about this one day, then it is just as well to do it by the book from the beginning. I've got nothing to hide from anyone, so i am quite happy to conform. I found a document saying that a qualified pharmacist could do the assessment. I think it may well be a bit of hard work getting everything together at first but as the products will be quite similar, the hard work will mainly be for the first one, then the rest will be amended versions. I've been self employed for ever, so that bit is easy.

I eventually found a helpful list on the CTPA site - The Cosmetic Toiletry & pPerfumery Association - Cosmetic regulations.
www.ctpa.org.uk

No rush... The world isn't knocking at my door for my Chanel no 5 just yet!!!

Do you sell yours?
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post #22 of 25
7/13/10 at 4:14pm
Me? No. I make and sell hats as a sideline, and looked into what I'd have to do to have a vanity perfume out there alongside. A sideline sideline. Maybe one day!
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post #23 of 25
7/16/10 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Elly View Post

Too bad that the bureaucrats' rules stifle small businesses thereby promoting the success of very large ones. Seems to be the way of the world these days.

Very true. One side likes to wax as if it's the hero for small business, but they're even more pro-big business than those they choose to demonize. It's a mess.
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post #24 of 25
7/16/10 at 6:02am
doesn't Andy Tauer just mix up this stuff in his bathtub or something? ;-)
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post #25 of 25
3/20/12 at 12:42pm
So we have it established for the UK, but what about the US? I can't seem to find a straight answer anywhere
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