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Natural alternatives for gardenia, lilac, lily, etc.?

post #1 of 15
4/2/10 at 7:27am
Thread Starter 
I know that there isn't EO for these scents.

But a botanical perfumer pretends she could capture it. Have a look on Strange Invisible Perfumes's website. The perfumer pretends to make botanical scents with these flowers (she doesn't use any aroma chemicals and her alcohol base in an organic grape alcohol). The description of Urban Lily fragrance says: "Similar to the gardenia, lily of the valley will not yield an essence. Happily, the sweetness of its petals, the strength of its roots, and the lush beauty of its leaves are captured in Urban Lily, a stunning bouquet for the ages." Do you think it's possible to do so??... I've read something that it's possible for gardenia but the thing is that is really expensive and the quantity very limited.

Plus someone knows how to make perfume base with grape alcohol? First time, I see that it's possible to make perfume with organic alcohols...

By the way, I love the bottles (I am wondering where to find this kind with a crystal cabochon cap) and the colours of her fragrances.
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post #2 of 15
4/2/10 at 10:04am
the gardenia oil exist for real, and it got some excellent reviews. and yes, it is expensive.
i know some natural perfumers use grape alcohol.
i've never heard of a natural lily of the valley, so i don't think it's possible. (but who knows.)
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post #3 of 15
4/2/10 at 10:07am
I think the key words here are "roots" and "leaves". I have no idea what lily of the valley roots or leaves smell like, but it's not hard to find EOs that smell like roots and leaves. The "petals" could be a mix of various other flower absolutes (I hope so, given the prices!). There's no statement that the scent actually smells like lily of the valley, so no one can be disappointed.
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post #4 of 15
4/7/10 at 11:16pm
Natural fragrance materials are a subset of all fragrance materials. It is like painting with only red, blue and orange. You might get very beautifull purples with it, but never a bright yellow. Back to perfumery: when you want to make a gardenia flower you have to work with what is available. That means that you probably never get something that is realy close to the flower, but maybe something that goes a long way in the right direction.

My opinion is that it is better to use the good points of natural perfumery than trying to imitate the regular perfumery.

A natural gardenia would probably contain the following:
Jasmin absolute
Ylang oils
Tonka absolute
Orange flower absolute
Neroli oil
Vanilla absolute
Bergamot oil
Rosewood oil
Violet absolute
Orris oil (concrete)
Cinnamon oils
Tolu balm/resinoid
Geranium oils
Benzoin resinoid
Some citrus oils
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post #5 of 15
4/7/10 at 11:27pm
I've yet to smell a realistic interpretation of these from natural fragrances. None the less, I find most synthetic fragrances miss the mark equally, so it's no easy task at the best of times..
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post #6 of 15
4/8/10 at 6:29am
The point is that for instance "gardenia" in perfumery is not the same as "gardenia" as in the flower. What I mean is that a single flower perfume that is based on gardenia usualy not intends to smell like the living flower. It is an impression, it has elements of the flower that are interpreted by the perfumer, but it is usualy not meant to be an exact match of the fragrance of the living flower.

Recently I studied the fragrance of linden blossom in perfumery. It is not alike the real linden blossom. In perfumery it is a mixture of muguet, alpha terpineol and neroli. The real linden blossom is more like what in perfumery is called acacia: heavy sweet and spicy.

Therefor I repeat: my opinion is that it is better to use the good points of natural perfumery than trying to imitate the regular perfumery. And I add that it is better to use the good points of perfumery than trying to make a replica of nature. When you want to smell a gardenia: smell a gardenia, not a perfume.
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post #7 of 15
4/9/10 at 10:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Elly View Post

I think the key words here are "roots" and "leaves". I have no idea what lily of the valley roots or leaves smell like, but it's not hard to find EOs that smell like roots and leaves. The "petals" could be a mix of various other flower absolutes (I hope so, given the prices!). There's no statement that the scent actually smells like lily of the valley, so no one can be disappointed.

I've tried to smell lily of the valley roots and leaves, the scent has nothing to do with the muguet "petals" fragrance... I can't tell about the mix and match with other flower absolutes, but one thing is understood, it could not come from the lily of the valley itself...
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post #8 of 15
4/9/10 at 11:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janmeut View Post

The point is that for instance "gardenia" in perfumery is not the same as "gardenia" as in the flower. What I mean is that a single flower perfume that is based on gardenia usualy not intends to smell like the living flower. It is an impression, it has elements of the flower that are interpreted by the perfumer, but it is usualy not meant to be an exact match of the fragrance of the living flower.

Recently I studied the fragrance of linden blossom in perfumery. It is not alike the real linden blossom. In perfumery it is a mixture of muguet, alpha terpineol and neroli.

So, that all the beauty of the art of perfume making: a very contradictory process, at the one hand, extremely precised and mesured and on the other very subjective...
I don't know anything about creating one scent from different OE's but obviously, for some scents, it requires the use of aromachemicals though....
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post #9 of 15
4/10/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by janmeut View Post

When you want to smell a gardenia: smell a gardenia, not a perfume.

LOL this one goes to my favorite quotes
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post #10 of 15
5/12/10 at 3:30pm
Recently I found a natural Lilac extract made by SCCO2 from small european producer. The product repeats exactly the smell of the flowers and has captured all the fresh and flower notes of the plant. My personal opinion is that it could be slightly more intensive, but anyway that is a real break...

About lily of the valley I am so curious to find it in natural, but it seems that we all have to wait for that
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post #11 of 15
5/13/10 at 5:22am
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Argane, I believe you've taken marketing for truth. People say a lot of things about fragrances, what they "capture," etcetera, very little of it true. If I wanted to sell a simple lily of the valley fragrance, I could say it was redolent of hydroxycitronellol with a well balanced blend of pheylethyl alcohol and acetate, or say it smells just like a spring morning. Just as I don't thing Strange Invisible Perfumes are strange or invisible, I don't think Urban Lily smells exactly as described, but for $210 for a quarter ounce, I would tell you it will make rays of sunshine come out your nostrils if I thought you'd buy it. Unfortunately, don't forget that real perfumers and entrepeneurs are wholly uninterested in letting you know how they arrived at their formulae. They want you to buy the image of, and subsequently the actual, fragrances they sell. I apologize for being overly harsh, but I feel there is a great gap between earnest amateur perfumers interested in honing their craft and commercial perfumery that should be pointed out.
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post #12 of 15
5/31/10 at 3:19am
Well, some of us have actually risen to the challenge of creating a natural Gardenia perfume.....there are a number of lovely ones out there....including one I make myself.......

I've written about my personal experiements with Gardenia on my blog if anyone would like to know more:

"Musings on Gardenia"
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post #13 of 15
6/2/10 at 6:38am
Thats so true for so many scents! So often, essential oils or absolutes only capture a part of the actual scent...I guess the art is in finding ways to rebuild and recreate the impression you get from the real thing.....
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post #14 of 15
6/2/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrosiawomble View Post

Well, some of us have actually risen to the challenge of creating a natural Gardenia perfume.....there are a number of lovely ones out there....including one I make myself.......

I've written about my personal experiements with Gardenia on my blog if anyone would like to know more:

"Musings on Gardenia"

Ambrosiawomble- what a great gardenia post on your blog- I enjoyed reading it. When will your gardenia perfume be available ? It sounds fabulous.
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post #15 of 15
7/20/10 at 11:30pm
It's available on the blog now Mimi! did you recieve the sample I sent you yet?
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