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B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

post #1 of 36
4/3/10 at 12:27am
Thread Starter 
Two weeks ago I bought a 50ml rubber flask of B*Men for A$15 (US&13.65) and two days ago I bought a 100ml bottle of Ice Men for A$20 (US$18.20), and a 200ml bottle of B*Men shower gel for A$9.

I think they are both great.
B*Men is a far more wearable scent than A*men, but reminds me strongly of it.
Ice Men reminds me strongly of A*men too, but doesn't leave me gagging in the middle of summer.
Both have excellent longevity.
I think both are infinitely better tha Mugler's Cologne, which I could never warm to.

When they first came out, they weren't greatly disliked here, and there was quite a bit of positive comment. But these are now the absolutely most heavily discounted scents I've ever seen from a big name designer down here.

What's wrong with these two scents? Where did Mugler go wrong?
Any thoughts?
Renato
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post #2 of 36
4/3/10 at 6:42am
First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.
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post #3 of 36
4/3/10 at 1:48pm
It just may be that they made too many bottles! However, B*Men is an oddball. It's not really for any social situation, but more of a frag for people who want something clearly different AND who will take the time to try out a few different frags. Hence, not much of a market. I haven't tried Ice Men.
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post #4 of 36
4/3/10 at 3:57pm
Icemen smells like sweaty hippie patchouli, I get no "coolness"

BMen smells like a barn, but I still love it.
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post #5 of 36
4/3/10 at 6:14pm
I don't think he went wrong with either of them. I think they're both fine.
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post #6 of 36
4/3/10 at 7:35pm
I see how B*Men may remind you of A*Men, because of the way it develops.. at least to me. The smells themselves are very different though, except maybe the coffee note in the middle of B*Men which is comparable to A*Mens.

I happen to like B*Men quite a bit. It's mostly a gourmand but it does have some intriguing spice to it. I'm sure if they were marketed more now, (since most people know about Mugler now) they would have better sales.
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post #7 of 36
4/3/10 at 7:37pm
He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.
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post #8 of 36
4/4/10 at 5:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentimus View Post

First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.

That's interesting how it's done over in the US.
Down here they were promoted pretty much the same as all others - a big initial push when they first came out in the two major retail chains.
Renato
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post #9 of 36
4/4/10 at 5:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post

It just may be that they made too many bottles! However, B*Men is an oddball. It's not really for any social situation, but more of a frag for people who want something clearly different AND who will take the time to try out a few different frags. Hence, not much of a market. I haven't tried Ice Men.

I agree with you it's an oddball, but for a different reason. It's a gourmand that goes with any social situation. I can't imagine where I'd feel odd wearing it.
You could well be right about too many bottles.
Renato
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post #10 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentimus View Post

First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.

I agree, but Clarins Fragrance Group started fixing that about a year ago. Too late for B*Men and ICE*Men to succeed, but at the right time for future launches and to build upon existing strong products. Now, in doors where both Azzaro and Thierry Mugler are sold, they mention both Chrome and A*Men to customers (and Mugler Cologne if it's available), with a slight focus on Top 5-selling Chrome. A year ago, it was all about Chrome and nothing else. So, I'd say that Clarins learned from its mistakes... smart companies do.

Therefore, it should be interesting if Clarins grabs Inter Parfums US designer distribution from P&G as rumored. Then, they'll have to add in Burberry, Lanvin, Quiksilver, Van Cleef & Arpels, and others...
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post #11 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Punisher View Post

Icemen smells like sweaty hippie patchouli, I get no "coolness"

BMen smells like a barn, but I still love it.

I'll take your word about the hippie patchouli (I have no experience with it).
Maybe it's perceptions like yours that led to the sales downfall of these scents.
Renato
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post #12 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hednic View Post

I don't think he went wrong with either of them. I think they're both fine.

But usually, when you make something fine (and I agree with you on that point) they should sell reasonably well.

I saw B*men being discounted in Europe three years ago (one of the few scents in that boat over there), and then being ridiculously discounted over here.
Something had to have gone wrong.
Renato
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post #13 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post

I see how B*Men may remind you of A*Men, because of the way it develops.. at least to me. The smells themselves are very different though, except maybe the coffee note in the middle of B*Men which is comparable to A*Mens.

I happen to like B*Men quite a bit. It's mostly a gourmand but it does have some intriguing spice to it. I'm sure if they were marketed more now, (since most people know about Mugler now) they would have better sales.

I just can't think of any scent B*Men reminds me of, other than A*Men, despite their differences.
I think that with the success of Angel, A*Men and Mugler's Cologne, Mugler was going to be as well known as he ever was going to be, when these two later scents came along.
Renato
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post #14 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post

He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.

Noting their recent successes, you could well have a point.
Renato
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post #15 of 36
4/4/10 at 6:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFfan310 View Post

with a slight focus on Top 5-selling Chrome. A year ago, it was all about Chrome and nothing else.

Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?
For the last seven or eight years, I think I've been about the only one here singing its praises, while nearly everyone else has been trashing it as being synthetic and linear.
Renato
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post #16 of 36
4/4/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato View Post

Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?

Yes, Chrome is a top-selling scent here in the US, ranking up there on the Top 5 with Acqua di Gio, Euphoria Men, and Polo Blue. Because of that, it's also heavily advertised and promoted by Clarins here.
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post #17 of 36
4/4/10 at 10:03am
Well, I think Mugler went "wrong" by making flankers. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think flankers get as much respect as the original fragrances.

I don't really like either fragrance to be honest. But I do respect them. B*Men does remind me alot of A*Men. It does have a distinct peanut butter note, at least to me. IceMan is too "mentholated". I should give it another sampling in the summer, maybe I will like it better than.
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post #18 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:16pm
I happened to find some notes in B Men based on analogies: once I had the chance of buying a scent discontinued in the USA but still in production in my home country, Woody Musk by Avon, it has got the same kind of musk you will find in Clubman and Canoe, with the addtion of woody notes. This scent is considered by many as extremely strong (even the SA told me it was unbereable, albeit the fact it settles down to powdery notes minutes after application). Later on I had the chance of buying musk EO, I had the chance of knowing which was the same EO in common between Canoe, Pinaud and Avon´s Woody Musk.

B Men has this note, IMHO, and this is what makes it more traditional in comparisson to A Men. It has an effect on the sweetness of A Men, since it neutrailizes it. According to comparissons made, B Men ends up being the most complex and more fullfiling of all this "musk based" scents. No wonder it has been dscontinued, it is worlds appart to the original proposal. Even thought I pitty the fact it has been discontinued, it is obvious it departs from what pefumistas had originally in mind - too conservative for A Men wearers, too flamboyant a brand name for those akin to traditional styles, even though the blend can be so considered.

Pure Malt has some points in common, that must be the reason why it was produced as a limited edition.
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post #19 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:20pm
  • Zgb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post

He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.

I like your cyinicism + it is truth...
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post #20 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:21pm
  • Zgb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato View Post

Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?
For the last seven or eight years, I think I've been about the only one here singing its praises, while nearly everyone else has been trashing it as being synthetic and linear.
Renato

I really like Chrome, it is, more or less, easily available in Croatia, but not much folks wear this...
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post #21 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post

He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.

LOL ... word!
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post #22 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renato View Post

I just can't think of any scent B*Men reminds me of, other than A*Men, despite their differences.
I think that with the success of Angel, A*Men and Mugler's Cologne, Mugler was going to be as well known as he ever was going to be, when these two later scents came along.
Renato

As Bigsly pointed out it's an oddball, I did notice B*Men to smell similar to Diesel Plus Plus in the opening. B*Men being much more appealing to me though.
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post #23 of 36
4/4/10 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zgb View Post

I like your cyinicism + it is truth...

Moi, a cynic? Never.....
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post #24 of 36
4/4/10 at 2:36pm
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Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post

Moi, a cynic? Never.....

God forbid!
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post #25 of 36
4/4/10 at 3:11pm
B men is OK, I prefer A men but I could see myself wearing B men from time to time and it has a similarity to A men without the sweetness. Have not tried ice men, i have tried sunessence and wasn't a big fan of it.
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post #26 of 36
4/4/10 at 9:18pm
I like both, although I like Ice*Men more (nice, light, cool patchouli). Its unfortunate that it didnt meet sales expectation but I would like for TM not to discontinue it.
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post #27 of 36
4/4/10 at 9:41pm
Ice*Men is the only Mugler fragrance that I didn't buy. I love the patchouli in the dry-down, however the prominent menthol note ruined it for me.
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post #28 of 36
4/4/10 at 9:54pm
I meant that it is an "oddball" to the typical guy spraying the tester on himself (or his GF trying it out to see if she'd like to buy it for him). If you like it, then once you get to the drydown it is fairly versatile. Ciel Mon Jardin! is the closest I've found to B*Men. I don't see much of a connection to A*Men, except some lavender, which is of course common to a huge number of "men's" frags. A*Men has strong chocolate, tar, and mint, which B*Men doesn't have. Instead, it has strong rhubard, wood, and spice notes. I've never understood why anyone would think that the two are similar, unless they mean in a general gourmand way.
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post #29 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfacing View Post

Well, I think Mugler went "wrong" by making flankers. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think flankers get as much respect as the original fragrances.

I don't really like either fragrance to be honest. But I do respect them. B*Men does remind me alot of A*Men. It does have a distinct peanut butter note, at least to me. IceMan is too "mentholated". I should give it another sampling in the summer, maybe I will like it better than.

You could have a point about flankers, and these two being perceived as such.
In one sense, there isn't much difference in concept between this group of three, and say Kouros/Kouros Cologne Sport/ Kouros Ete.
On the other hand, A*Men does have it's own real flankers with the A*Men name in each.
Renato
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post #30 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollux View Post


B Men has this note, IMHO, and this is what makes it more traditional in comparisson to A Men. It has an effect on the sweetness of A Men, since it neutrailizes it. According to comparissons made, B Men ends up being the most complex and more fullfiling of all this "musk based" scents. No wonder it has been dscontinued, it is worlds appart to the original proposal. Even thought I pitty the fact it has been discontinued, it is obvious it departs from what pefumistas had originally in mind - too conservative for A Men wearers, too flamboyant a brand name for those akin to traditional styles, even though the blend can be so considered.

That is one perceptive analysis, which may go to the core of what went wrong with B*Men. In one sense it is nothing like the original, in another, it's the only one that can strongly reminds one of the original.
Renato
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post #31 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zgb View Post

I really like Chrome, it is, more or less, easily available in Croatia, but not much folks wear this...

When I was in Zagreb and Krk last October, I wore Chrome (It's my travel scent for hot days).
Renato
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post #32 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post

As Bigsly pointed out it's an oddball, I did notice B*Men to smell similar to Diesel Plus Plus in the opening. B*Men being much more appealing to me though.

I'm a fan of Diesel ++, but never detected any similarity to B*Men. probably because of the punch its opening notes pack up my nostrils.
Renato
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post #33 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaheen View Post

Ice*Men is the only Mugler fragrance that I didn't buy. I love the patchouli in the dry-down, however the prominent menthol note ruined it for me.

I must be desensitized to menthol, because I just can't pick that note in Ice Men that you and others detect.
Renato
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post #34 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post

I've never understood why anyone would think that the two are similar, unless they mean in a general gourmand way.

I find them similar in a very specific way, not a general way.
There is one strong note or group of notes that is distinctive only to those two. Unfortunately I'm hopeless at identifying notes.
Regards,
Renato
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post #35 of 36
4/5/10 at 7:59am
I absolutely hate A*men.

I tested some Ice Men on my arm recently, and I got to say, it's not bad at all.
It's fresh but in a special way.
I wouldn't mind buying it for a low price.
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post #36 of 36
4/5/10 at 1:56pm
I like both.
Regards,
P
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