Vintage Kouros

The bottles or packaging might have changed over the years, but I don't believe it's been reformulated. This is one of the few fragrances where people here have not been ranting about it being reformulated.

Tester bottles very often look different than a bottle you'd buy in a store, so I think that may be the situation. The juice inside is probably the same. I've been wearing Kouros for about 16 years, and have noticed no difference in smell from the 3 or 4 bottles I've gone through.

I use Kouros for so many years now,and never noticed any difference and I think they never formulated Kouros.Just the packaging and the bottle changed a little.

Kouros has been the same, as far as I know. To me, "Vintage Kouros" could only mean old juice, but nothing special. Juice from a fresh bottle should smell the same (if not better).

Kouros was definitely reformulated at some point because the original had real oakmoss which is a no no these days... I'm not a big fan of Kouros, so I never compared the original vs the vintage, but it seems like this is a case where the reformulation was completed in a very careful and skillful manner, and what's left is still a very good, if not equal fragrance...

Ditto

Not sure where to score vintage juice...best place to look has tp be Ebay and/or old pharmacies/discount stores.

I understand that many frags undergo reformulations for many reasons. The oakmoss certainly an issue for many. But as a Kouros fan, I cannot believe with something this potent and distinctive that it makes enough difference to rigorously pursue an authentic pre-reformulation bottle.

I'm sure the bottle I have is quite recent and can't imagine a version that would be significantly different.

No, I don't think that Kouros has been reformulated. Anyway, I don't even care, it is my favorite fragrance.
That's why Body Kouros was created for those people who didn't like Kouros.
In my opinion, fragrances are like art. You can't change art. How was it if someone changed paintings ?
Yves Saint Laurent makes Kouros with the same ingredients that it had almost 30 years ago. That's what I know.

Jimi Hendrix

How can you be so sure about it? Are you such a trained nose that you are able to perceive even the slightest changing? Or are you a highly trained chemist that can make reversal engineering to see if they changed the composition? I doubt it.

You cant' change art? I agree, but, unfortunately, the fragrance industry does not think like us, mr. Hendrix. They reformulate everything, even when we can't notice the difference.

There are plenty of old discussions here about why they reformulate. I will not repeat them here, due to lack of time and patience. Do a search if you still didn't, you will be surprised.

Or just forget what I said, and keep on trusting YSL. Ignorance is a bliss, no offense meant.

If you can't smell the difference, then who cares?

If it is reformulated, I don't care, as long as it is not noticeable by an untrained nose like me.
They must have their reasons to reformulate fragrances. I was affraid that, if they reformulate everything, the fragrances might be turned into someting awfull. The prerfumers are trained and professional noses, so they must know what they are doing. That's all.

Who cares? That's simple: the other people who CAN smell the difference.

Also, I said that EVEN when you can't smell the difference, it doesn't mean it wasn't reformulated. The problem is, in most cases, we CAN smell the difference.

I'm not saying that Kouros was reformulated badly. I personally like it.

I'm even enjoying Égoïste, which current version has been bashed by basenoters from times to times.

On the other hand, they quite ruined Fahrenheit, Tabac Blond, Vetiver Guerlain, Trussardi Uomo, and many others. So, in many cases, they DON'T know what they're doing at all, and that's a well known fact.

Excuse me, but are you the same guy that just said "In my opinion, fragrances are like art. You can't change art. How was it if someone changed paintings ?"

I don't understand why you feel the need to bust the guy's chops.

this is much ado about not a lot. Look, I've been wearing this for a long time now, it's still good.

To my knowledge, it has been reformulated like all frags from the 80's. Looks like Beautyencounter has the vintage (look for the pour Edt).

?????

I just questioned him because what he said is incoherent and nonsense. I have nothing personal about anybody here.

Or do I have to clap my hands and agree with everything that is written here? Is there such a rule? I don't think so.

Also, why do you feel the need to defend him and point the finger to myself? He may reply if he wants to.

No offense meant. Never.

No offense meant here either, but how about letting it ride. The guy had his say, stated what's important to him and how he's happy with the scent as he's experienced it and how it's available to him. How about letting it go a that and not questioning his grip on deeper meaning, Smeller? Go ahead and state that your experience of the scent is different, if it is. Let the readers ponder as they wish. It's a thread on the Internet after all.

Getting to your original point in your post, do you smell any difference in what's in your new bottle and what you remember smelling in Kouros before?

I'm hoping you don't - there would be a lot of enraged Kouros fans here if this has been (noticeably) reformulated. This is one they should never mess with.

I already let it ride, but now what's the point of being told to "let it go and not question his grip on deeper meaning"? I'm not even attacking him personally. What's wrong on pointing the weakness of someones' arguments? As I see, this is not a rule on the forum.

I see your good intentions, but, honestly, as far as I remember, what I always liked in Basenotes was exactly the depth of the discussions, with respectful disagreeings, solid arguments, and eventually some caustic comments here and there (which I didn't). It used to be a non-mediocre fragrance site.

By the way, I'm not seeing it that much recently. Perhaps the forum changed that much since my hiatus of some months, and now only superficial comments are allowed. I hope not...

If you are afraid of this discussion getting uglier, relax, I wouldn't do that.

xxxxxx

I do not know for sure, but my guess is that is has been reformaulated - with just about everything else. However, IMO the Kouros that is sold today is still 99% better than the rest of the fragrances being sold.

I agree wholeheartedly, Joe.

I agree, and that includes niche fragrances too!

Absolutely!

Agreed that it's a masterpiece even if reformulated. I used Kouros as my signature scent for years. I don't know if it's reformulated now but if you'd like to look for the old packaging (if that really means vintage in this case), look for an out of place "S" at the end of the name. The font looked different than the rest of the letters in the name. As if the letter Z was turned around and used as an S. This was corrected in subsequent packaging.
I still find it the same scent and funny enough, I never thought of it as a "dirty" scent back in my twenties. I always received compliments on it. I'm more self-conscious about wearing it now! : 0

Just a few things:

BULLYING? Blatantly aggressive attitude? Could you POINT when I did one of those things? Just an example. A phrase. Please.

If you have a personal complain about me, you have two options: 1) send me a private message or 2) call a moderator (you're not one).

This topic is meant to discuss the Kouros reformulation, which I tried to do before some members started to accuse me of being too aggressive.

As I see, YOU are being aggressive towards myself. I didn't make any personal attack, you are attacking me.

I'm only replying here because you posted here. I really don't want to go off-topic. Post a private message (you should have done at first place, since you are not a moderator) and we will discuss the forum rules and the definition of bullying and aggressiveness in private.

To your knowledge, I'm contacting the moderation right now.

Respectfully.

You want quotes? There you go.

Ok, thank you very much, now I'm able to defend myself, knowing what is all about.

1 - "... Are you such a trained nose that you are able to perceive even the slightest changing? Or are you a highly trained chemist that can make reversal engineering to see if they changed the composition? I doubt it."

Well, the guy claimed that he was absolutely sure that Kouros was never reformulated, no matter what we say. I was just showing him that is impossible to be so sure about it. I'm not a highly trained nose (very few of us are), nor a highly trained chemist, neither want to be one, so I see no personal offense. Perhaps I should written "we" instead of "you", just to avoid anyone being offended about not being a great nose or chemist. But I don't see it as a personal attack anyway. Sorry if it sounded harsh.

2 - "There are plenty of old discussions here about why they reformulate. I will not repeat them here, due to lack of time and patience. Do a search if you still didn't..."

Sorry, but what is the problem about recommending a search? I mean, if he's a basenotes member and didn't read a thread on reformulations, I believe he should... it's like going to Paris and not avoiding the Louvre... And my lack of time and patience is a fact, offensive only to myself, sorry again.

3 - "Or just forget what I said, and keep on trusting YSL. Ignorance is a bliss, no offense meant.."

All right, I was being ironical here, I admit, is it forbidden also? If yes, I apologize. Profusely. I will try to avoid ironies on this forum from now.

As I see, there were no personal attacks. If you interpreted this way, I apologize again, I did not intended to do so.

One more thing: PLEASE, if something I said bothered anyone else, send me a PRIVATE message. I already received one and made good friends with him. Let's keep this on topic, because I personally LOVE Kouros, vintage or not!

Everyone's cool. Thanks for the explanation.

You're welcome.

You see, this thread is what I love about Kouros. It brings out the passion and fire in everyone!

how true! best quote in awhile on here.

I recently got an urge to revisit Kouros after many years. I traded for a bottle and was happy to notice that it did smell like I remember it! There must've been a few tweaks now and then, but all in all it felt like the good old Kouros.

I decided I needed to get myself a backup or two, because everything gets reformulated these day. It's just a matter of time. I went to a department store and spritzed on some Korous at the YSL counter. The confrontational opening was still there, but not quite as rich, and the fragrance quickly turned to a thinner and weaker version of its old self. The big, bold Kouros has been neutered!

Luckily I have my old bottle and the box that came with it, so I could compare the old with the new. The latest formulation has a shorter list of ingredients and ends with "2YF02-3", whereas the older has a longer list of ingredients and ends with "2YF02-2". I'm speculating that "2YF02-x" is like a version code, because it seems to be consistently used on all packages in varying sizes with matching list of ingredients. (There is also a date code on the bottom of the package and discretely etched on the bottle.)

I don't know when this last reformulation took place, but it has to be fairly recent.

Here's my older box:



And the latest one:



EDIT: OK, I've now compared the latest and the previous formulations side by side. This is not at all as bad as I thought during my first hysterical reaction...

The new is practically as loud and lasts almost as long as the old, but it's slightly fresher and a little bit less dirty and spicy. It's hollowed out. The main structure is clearly there, but it's less dense.

All in all, not a big difference actually...

Thanks tott; your 'ingredients' pix are helpful as a reference.

Kouros smells pretty much exactly the same to me as it did in 1987. Sometimes the quality of a fragrance will slip a little. Synthetics will replace the real (expensive) thing. This always happens, especially with super popular frags like Kouros. I would try Ebay to see if you can find an old bottle to see how pronounced the difference is, if at all. Usually, over time, a fragrance will lose as certain richness. Chanel Antaeus for example.

The front of the box has any difference?

Cause i think none of online sellers show the back of the bottle. And i want a pure Kouros. Going to buy one soon.

Its impossible to me to buy personally, here at Brazil, Kouros 100ml can cost more than 175usd...

So i will import one at a online store.

Thanks for the recommendations!

I agree with shamu1, I think Kouros is one of few fragrances that has never been tampered with.....thank god.

I would suggest you email the sellers. That's what I did, and I was quite happy with my purchase in the end.

I now own a bottle of old Kouros (shiny white bottle, not the matte finish) and current juice (I've been getting backups), and I detect little if any difference. The old stuff smells just a tad sweeter and smoother in the beginning, but the difference is really subtle and is barely even worth noting, IMO.

If YSL keeps the current juice the way it is, I'll still be a happy guy. Kouros is still the King of a very large mountain.

I used to wear Kouros after shave back in the day, and it was very fresh and "urinal cake" as I recall. Only last week I decided to revisit it, but bought the EDT, and it was waaay too much for me, with animalic notes that I am sure weren't in the after shave.

Admittedly, I'm comparing oranges and apples here, but is there still an a/s and is it still much tamer on the animalic notes?

BTW - I sold the EDT on the same day that I bought it.

Never noticed any difference personally.

I visited a parfumeur here in Tokyo (Satori) who showed me her fantastic vintage collection. She put a tiny spritz of Kouros on a test strip for me. Immediately I got a rich animalic musk--a very rich version of the sort of generic musk that used to be popular in stuff like Jovan Musk, I think. Underneath that was the Kouros of today that I know and love. I kept the strip in a non-permeable plastic envelope. The musk gradually faded, and what is left is very similar to today's Kouros. I didn't ask her about the year. Probably some people still have this on hand, but to find anyone willing to sell may be difficult. If you really want to get it, you should be prepared to travel--to meet the seller and try the juice, and be prepared to spend big bucks. Good luck! :-)

i dont know if it was reformulated or not
But the Bottle with metalic shoulders and Bottom
smells very different of the Bottle that has white shoulders and Bottom

this is the Back of the Box i own
it says: 87 52 33 03
before the list of the ingredients, it doesnt say that "2yf02-3" at the end of the list

Kouros is still the real deal! No reformulations as far as I can tell and I wear it now on a regular basis for almost 22 years.

IF the one in stores is the new and improved, I can't imagine how dreadful the original smelled!

This is absolutely true, Joe. Thank you for stating two important points. It has most definitely been reformulated. I have Vintage Kouros and have smelled a sample of current formulation. The depth of Vintage is significantly richer, along with the notes being deeper and more expressive - it is a wonderful and potent blend of cloves, patchouli, honey, musk, florals, civet, spices, oakmoss, incense, herbs and leather. The aldehydes are more present in the top notes of Vintage formulation, so although there is more depth - there is also a wonderful lifted opening that keeps the entire blend from being too powdery early on. The second key note that is not present (or significantly reduced in current and more recent formulations) is Oakmoss. In Vintage Kouros, I find it to be both a nice note and a key fixative that really helps keep the herbs and spices sparkling and earthy patchouli balance out the civet and musk. The honey is warmer and smoother in Vintage as well. While a lot of people like current formulation because it has a bit more citrus on the opening and a lighter, cleaner feel (less clove, civet, musk, honey) - it becomes more powdery a lot sooner in the wear. I like the warm, smooth, and lightly powdery feel of Vintage in the drydown (where there is also a nice incense accord that shows) - but the powdery-vibe enters current formulation in the heart and is much more dominant. Not a bad thing if Vintage is too potent, which is a perspective - just one that I don't have.

Side-by-side, it is very noticeable to me in the heart...while I'm smelling (from Vintage) earthy patchouli, rich cloves, dusty cinnamon, vetiver, orris root and a bouquet of florals wafting in quietly (with the honey radiating through, leather starting to show with the civet and musk breathing on my skin) - the current formulation is already at the point of a powdery talc that is infused with spices, light florals, some patchouli (which is harder to find under the powder) but enough vetiver and musk to keep things somewhat separated. However, this phase lasts a rather short period (which is key) and the powder seems to drown out notes while the Vintage keeps pumping and a light powder seems to add to the vibe, instead of take it over.

Now, this is coming from a single, sample decant that I got - compared on clean skin, side-by-side. I would say that if I didn't know Vintage Kouros, I would like the current formulation and feel it is a nice barbershop scent with some unique notes and a very nice, fresh powdery feel. Very inoffensive and rather old-school with just enough civet to show you this had roots from yesteryear. Still not something a typical high-school/college student would have in their collection though. I don't find the urinal note here or in Vintage - when I was younger and those around me wore Vintage Kouros, an over-application on a hot day could lead one to a very heavy musky, civet-infused scent with the sweetness of honey making one realize that sometimes less is more. So, light application and a nice touch-up is my preferred method for a full day's wear - it is brilliant year-round for me. Actually, the weather and temperature really has an effect on this scent, more so than many others. Look for the subtleties and notes as they waft from your skin on a warm, balmy day versus a cool, dry one. Kouros really does blend with one's body chemistry wonderfully and the climate obviously effects that. Animalic notes make it seem nearly "alive" sometimes when you wear it - to some it smells very natural, to others very imposing.

I have come to really appreciate Vintage Kouros more and more recently. I have also been gifted the ultra-rare and discontinued Eau de Sport (1986) and was able to find the discontinued Vintage Kouros Fraicheur (both are truly amazing flankers)! As we mature, I think our tastes and olfactory perspective grows with us - unless we limit ourselves. I wanted to write this personal perspective because it is something I have come to find significant. It makes me appreciate what Vintage Kouros was and what current formulation has to offer and what I can take from both. To each, their own.

Cheers!

ericrico

I smelled the reformulated Kouros and I could not get past the intense clove spiced opening. It never went away.

Kouros was reformulated and oakmoss was taken off, here was a thread where it was confirmed (compared the incredients list that's inside the kouros box).
I agree to the opinions that current formulation is nearly same smelling.

I notice a difference though; imo in the vintage version there is no such smell as some describe "urinal" or "urinal cake".
Bought my vintage 50ml splash bottle NIB from an ebay seller in Usa, also made a post about it here as the seller had several vintage bottles to sale, but it didn't cut much dash.

There's an excellent review of the vintage and the reformulated version on another site, and the basic premise of the reviewer (who seemed, to me, to be very knowledgeable) was that the original and the reformulated have some differences in the topnotes, but dry down to virtually the same fragrance. The biggest difference he found was that the vintage needed only a few sprays to do the trick, and the reformulated needed two or three times that many to have staying power.

If I can find the link I'll post it. I vaguely recall it was written by a guy who was banned from basenotes, so I don't know if it's allowed.

Shortly, according to many reviewers :

original vintage : box with 2 white/3 silver stripes, background color entirely in blue, no list (or a very short one) of ingredients. Bottle with metallic base, "eau de toilette" written immmediately under "Kouros". Juice at its best.

year 2000 : 1st reformulation, box with single white stripe, background color black and blue, long list of ingredients, with evernia prunastri and evernia furfuracea (oakmoss, treemoss) . Bottle with metallic base, "eau de toilette" written on the bottom near the base. Juice very good.

year 2010-2011: 2nd reformulation, box mostly as above, ingredients list with or without oakmoss and treemoss, bottle without metallic base. Juice a bit disappointing.

someone affirms there has been another reformulation, but IMO all bottles produced before 2010 are very good, and these ones before year 2000 are the best.

I suggest my friends to grab every bottle with metallic base they can find.

I own two versions of Kouros.

The all metal base with the code 2FY02-2 has much better projection and longevity. There is a faint amount of civet in the opening. It is richer than the new formula in the all white base.

The newer one has no civet, is weak, and dies on the skin after a couple hours.

They share very little in common. GIT has more in common with Cool Water than Kouros has in common with reformulated Kouros.

Thanks for the information. I had bought the stuff from Perfumania online last year and thus had assumed that I was getting the latest juice. Turns out I got lucky and have the first reformulation, with the metallic base and the 2YF02-2 number.

Plenty of animalics in that, as there should be. (And all the same, a 20 year old to whom I gave a sample declared it clean and soapy - so musk anosmia can happen also in earlier juices).

cacio

Thanks. Here's the link I was referring to:

http://frompyrgos.blogspot.com/2013/...que-de-la.html

Despite the title, it's in English. I can't speak to the veracity or accuracy of the reviewer, since I have not tried the reformulated Kouros. Just posting it in case someone is interested. And if I am not supposed to post it, I apologize to the moderators in advance.

Interesting blog. Thanks for posting it.

I disagree with the review saying 15 sprays of reformulated Kouros gives the same smell of vintage Kouros.

First, who will spray 15 times? I spray a lot, but that is wasting juice. 15 sprays and a 100ml bottle is gone in no time.

Second, there is no civet in reformulated Kouros. None. This plays a big part of the genius of having a dirty smell phase in and out.

Third, 3 out of 10 ingredients listed in the 2FYF02-2 formula are not listed in the top 10 of the reformulation. There are another three ingredients that were in the old formula that are absent from the newest version. That is a significant change for a parfum with onnly 23 ingredients listed.

The killer for me is that there is no civet. That made the old Kouros great. Also, one of the ingredients that Kouros dropped was a natural substance made by the sweat glands of bees. Part of the rich honey scents of vintage Kouros must have come from this. Now it is gone.