Define "niche?"

"Niche" is a business term meaning a product designed to appeal to only a small section of the population. Â*They generally have limited distribution--ie. not available in a lot of places. Â*

What you call "ordinary" in perfumes would be two main categories--designer (developed by design houses--Gucci, Burberry, Hermes, etc) and they are generally available in "better" department stores. Â*The other would be "mass market" which are generally available in many places like drug stores and discount stores.

Niche is a half latin, half greek, and half french word which means "costs a lot and damn hard to find but not necessarily smells any better"

1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 ;D

Foetidus hit the nail on the head.

So what are the niche fragrances in America?

Would L'Artisan, Demeter and Comptoir Sud Pacifique be considered niche?

Further to the above, the other main differences between niche and ordinary designer scents are
1. They are usually a lot more expensive than standard designer scents, often horrendously so in countries outside their country of origin(especially where I live),
2. While some niche ones are very long lasting, a significantly greater proportion don't have the lasting power of average designer scents, and
3. While some are very masculine, a significantly greater proportion of niche ones fall into the unisex or unisex/tad feminine categories,
4. The niche ones often use a lot more natural ingredients than the designer ones, so that some people (e.g. one of my female cousins) who get rashes from standard scents, find they can wear many of these ones without any problem.

Typical niche houses include Lorenzo Villoresi, Artisan, Federick Malle, Nicolai etc. Others often cited as niche include Creed, Penhaligon and Floris, though some argue that some of them shouldn't be considered as niche.

We have often had lots of very polarised debates here on the topic of niche vs designer scents, and they've been great fun - we're about due for another one soon.
Renato

All so true!

To some of us, there is a cetain snob factor attached to the niche scents much the same as is attached to Italian racing cars, expensive Swiss watches, certain single-malt scotchs, or Harley Hogs. Even if they are not necessarily better than designer, the money we pay for them and their limited production, rarity, or obscurity might assure us that, even if they might not be better, they are at least removed from the masses.

i just knew i heard this somewhere!...did you know that niche in some latinamerican countries (i looked it up in an english-spanish dic. and asked some spanish speaking friends) is a despective, diminutive word, that can mean: tacky, low class, crude, bad taste and smelly? it's used generally in colombia, venezuela and hunduras?...just another definition of niche! (BTW i love a lot niche frags...err...the ones we talk about on the forum i mean)
;D

For me, it's a fragrance only found in boutiques made by a smallish company. Or even a company that only has a small amount of fragrances they release. I also think they have unusually pretty but not too over the top bottles. One you won't find anyone wearing usually in a small town-unless they come here DEFINATELY not available at a mall or discount site.

Shouldn't niche be a synonym of exclusive in perfumery ? :-?

Another definition (which is pretty close to the definition commonly used on Basenotes) is that a niche company only makes fragrances or fragrant things (candles, roomspray, etc). In general, this is a good test to identify a niche brand though there may be some exceptions.

wondering...

As far as I can tell, niche means limited market, and luxe means high price. They usually seem to go together.

When people talk about niche houses, though, I think they sometimes mean firms that don't go after the mass market kind of on purpose, because they have a different (higher?) standard of scent design...

I'm sure there's a hint of snobbery in all this, although some houses are definitely better at producing complex and subtle frags than others.

Maybe some of this just has to do with distribution... the foreign production and difficulty of finding some frags probably contributes to their niche mystique.

It's all about marketing, and marketing's all about psychology... We love to fall for it though, don't we?

I also got a bit confused by these categories when I read the lists of Fifi Awards finalists at NowSmellThis. I guess they mean by "luxe" what we commonly refer to as "designer". But what left me perplexed was their use of the term "niche". If Dior Homme falls into the niche category, then I have completely misunderstood the concept!

For the Fifi awards, the difference between Nouveau Niche & Luxe is simply the number of doors the scent is sold in. The wider release fragrances go into the Luxe category, those in more limited distribution go into Nouveau Niche.

Those in really limited distribution (the kind that would be considered niche on the fragrance boards) don't get considered at all.

Thanks for the explanation, justcurious!

I agree. There are so many designer scents that I feel are better than a lot of niche scents out there. However, these designer scents don't get praised because they don't belong to an artisinal house.

thanks for clearing it up. that makes sense

Trying to follow logic of other posts, and there seems to be a broad definition of niche fragrances. I would count out anything that can be purchased at a department store, but I see many references to Annick Goutal as niche. Is there a tighter, agreed-upon definition?

It's kind of loose, but you bring up a good point about Goutal. It's often considered niche, but here quite a few of the Goutals are available at major department stores. Likewise, Serge Lutens is sold all over France, and don't have that elusive quality that keeps them restricted to a few boutiques in North America.

Really, it's hard to define niche except in broad terms of limited availability in a given region.

I do think of Goutal as niche. Many niche fragrances have one type of bottle for all their scents; Goutal does this with their everyday ladies' and men's bottles (while still selling the collectable bottles.)

As I see it niche are the independant perfumers .

A blind buyers worst nightmare!

couldn't have said it better myself

Isn't it French for expensive?

How does one pronounce " vase " ?

---I've heard any company that solely deals in fragrances may be classified as niche.
--Then I've heard it's only those that are hard to get, or are not sold by fashion designers or--
etc.

*sigh*

Mario

My personal opinion is that "niche" is a fairly useless and imprecise distinction.

Not quite, take the Dior Colognes; Eau Noire; Bois d'Argent and so on, they are niche too.
Why?! Because they are scarce, not sold that many places, thus qualifying them as niche!
But one cannot call the House of Dior for an independent parfumer.

As I guessed, doesn't sound like there is a tight definition. Expensive=less frequently consumed but not necessarily "independent."
With internet marketplace and luxury-brand conglomerates probably the truly niche perfume is that which is home-brewed!

A good rule of thumb - if you have to seek it out to find it - it's niche. The more effort you have to put into it - the more niche. It's a sliding scale, dependent on availability. Genghis Khan is the epitome of niche - even on basenotes hardly anyone has ever seen it.

I always thought that "niche" meant that the company that made the fragranceses only produce scents (like Creed or Guerlain) and that brands like Gucci or other big brands that produce other products aside from fragranceses were outside of the niche fragrance group.

Niche means:

Or: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niche_market

I'm glad I'm not the only one that was confused by this. Thanx for the link Mon-Petit

This is a very good answer.....and Yes.....we do Love to fall for all of this that's for sure!!!
Gary

Just out of curiosity, it has been boggling my mind since a recent thread. What does niche mean to you? (in terms of fragrances)

To me, I used to think it meant exclusive to just fragrances. (the company only makes frags)

But, now I think of it as just being exclusive to the public. E.g.: stores, online, etc. For example -- you could buy Cool Water anywhere. But Davidoff doesn't make anything but fragrances right? So if my old definition of niche applied to this, that would mean Cool Water is niche. Rather.. I see it as this: NOT limited to just higher end stores like Neiman, Barney's, etc. -- making it NOT niche. As it can be found on drugstores, Walmart's, and most, if not all department stores with a fragrance department.

Sorry if I confused anyone, above.. but I think you get the idea here.

To me.. Niche just means limited by availability, and has nothing to do with what the brand makes. What do you all think?

Also, if my definition is true. Would this make fragrances like Cool Water, Aramis frags, and so on, non niche frags that only make fragrances -- would this make them designer? To me it does.

I agree with you - niche is everything that is only available in exclusive stores.

Btw, Davidoff is foremost a tobacco company.

I guess availabilty in a limited number of exclusive stores is one of the best delimitation criteria of niche

First, I think it's always a matter of relization of certain creative ideas (by master perfumer),
as opposite to "meeting common taste".

Second, to me niche fragrance is a matter of needing to have a certain *knowledge*
to appreciate the composition, its nuances and the master perfumer's concept behind it.
Same with music (like jazz) and movies, fine wines etc.

Isn't it that an industry organization I cannnot recall its name states that it means it is sold in less than 500 stores worldwide (or was it nationally)?

I found some designers to be niche in terms of complexity, and some niche to be downright a mess. So I guess it does not have much to do with quality. Ah, and the boxes: co's selling niche scents make a big effort in spending money in the design and manufacture of hard cardboard boxes.

to me, what it "should" mean is that the company caters to a niche in the market. specific, focused, conceptualized products. companies that don't concern themselves with mass market.

like gus guitars for example, with their piezo and midi guitars in futuristic, ergonomics based bodies.
or dingwall, with their fanned frets.
not fender. not even fender custom shop.

however in practice, it does seem to mean exclusive either by price or by availability. preferably both.

ps: and in no case does this mean any such company makes a "bad product" automatically.
yamaha, a company that makes motorcycles, golf clubs and mixers also happen to make some of the best acoustic and bass guitars.

(As a marketing term) a niche market, often referred to as just the word niche is a specific, often small, delimited and editable part of a market.
Niche markets have less competition than the main market, some niche markets know even one provider.
A company that focuses on a niche market provides a good or service that will not be offered by the parties to the main market.

For me niche should be the art of create fragrances (not only with a business purpose).

This

It can't be defined. It's constantly driven because its meaning is ultimately derived from markets and consumerism. Drugstore scents fill a niche as well, so quality and availability have relatively little to do with it. If the African Dung Beetle excreted a scent that would go on to be the next Oud, then there would be a market for it and manufacturers would be clamoring to fill the niche with product.

This is why everybody is becoming more and more confused as to what niche is: the lines between niche(s) are blurring because there's simply more and more stuff on the market. The more these become popular, the less of a niche they fill. Think of it as music when Alternative meant Alternative. Then in the 90's, Alternative was no longer well, alternative anymore. It had become mainstream and subsequently lost its niche as consumers tastes changed and they began looking for something else.

I actually just found this out recently from my friend's sister who lives in Iraq. Davidoff doesn't market much in the US and their products are generally unavailable. You're more likely to find cool water at a convenience store here than you are to find davidoff tobacco products!

Privately owned, under $150 million a year profit, exclusively producing perfume & toiletries, and catering to a clientele that wants a specific "type" of smell, be it synthetic, natural, green, gourmand, whatever.

I feel like its specialist interest and availability. Usually its something you have to go out your way to find.

I.e. take Lorenzo Villoresi, you wouldn't just see it somewhere and try it. It's aimed at a niche market. People who know what they want. The lady who was working there seemed quite humbled and genuinely amazed that I'd made a point to go there to shop and that I'd even heard of LV back in Scotland.

That's what I've always taken niche to mean in terms of scents.

I suspect that the vast majority of the fragrance buying public would smell niche scents and think -
"What - they want $200 for that? I can get a much better smelling, longer lasting scent, that doesn't smell half masculine/half feminine/very basic/ very silly from the regular sellers of designer scents"

I've observed several stores specialising in selling niche scents close down here in my hometown (Melbourne Australia). I've observed department stores introducing niche scents along with their designer ranges, and then sell the niche ones off heavily discounted when they discontinued the lines. Unless the niche scents smell something akin to designer scents down here (e.g. Annik Goutal), the niche segment of the market here is just too small to make it economically viable. (Even Secretions Magnifique disappeared from the shelves last time I looked)

Thus niche means catering to a very small market segment. Over the years, however, there have been a few people here claiming that Creed wasn't really niche.

My main criterion in buying a scent is longevity. Most niche scents are average to very poor in that department, so I am bemused when people here cite better quality in trying to describe what makes a niche scent. The notion of supposed better quality, coupled with poor longevity just makes little sense to me, as the scent really isn't doing its job as far as I'm concerned.

The more practical descriptiion of niche to me would be
"Something different or unusual that most people either wouldn't like much or wouldn't be willing to pay the very high price for."

An alternative, though more limited description of niche would be,
"Scents that will rarely, if ever, get you a compliment or land you a woman" (the guy wearing the designer scent got her first)
Cheers,
Renato

When I describe myself as a niche perfumer, what I mean is that my fragrances are made by me, to my own specification. That my fragrances may be designed to meet the desires of a particular customer, but there are never any focus groups or marketing executives dictating that it must not offend anyone . . . and it emphatically isn’t made by one of the very small number of very large corporations who make the great majority of the world’s fragrance products.

Reading this thread I wonder whether I should stop doing so though, as I’m not sure my definition is widely shared!

Acqua Di Gio is not Niche.....The Armani Prive Collection is Niche.....Limited availability is a main factor for sure!!!
Gary

In my opinion Niche simply means that a company purposely restricts the availability of its products in order to appear hard to get or exclusive. Most of the time (but not always), these products cost significantly more money than similar products that are more widely available.

Some houses can have both Niche & designer offerings. Bleu de Chanel for example, can be bought almost anywhere, so that wouldn't be considered niche. Sycomore however, can only be obtained in high end department stores and at Chanel boutiques. I'm sure Chanel could have flooded every department store across the world with Sycomore if they wanted to, but they artificially restricted supply to make it appear exclusive and harder to purchase, so that in my eyes would be niche.

Due to globalization i thin limited availability is no long a necessary characteristic of niche.

Here in the desert, Dubai, we have access to the majority of niche perfumes and that's because of globalization not because said perfumers have started producing mainstream perfumes.

Anything that is highly exclusive (Angel Men Pure Malt) or with a comparatively high sticker price (Creed) or different from the norm/original in terms of smell qualifies as niche for me.

Well said. I agree with most.

Yes, luckyscent ships worldwide. However, I don't think it matters that they are available to everyone. It's the fact that they are only available to everyone at a few select stores that matters.

My personal definitions are as follows:

Niche - a small (or relatively small), specialised, fragrance company focusing on limited production, limited advertising and artisanship. Focus is only on fragrance and fragrance products, such as candles. Examples are Parfums d'Empire, Serge Lutens and Histoires de Parfum.

Fragrance house - large and perhaps well established with a *real* historical pedigree (no fake, fanciful "historical" background, fake founder or famous so-called patrons), these companies make only fragrance and fragrance products, which include toiletries and makeup (with a small collection of makeup accessories). Examples are Guerlain and Caron.

Designer - produces fragrance, but not a part of the main line of products. Can include fashion (clothing, handbags, shoes, jewellery and watches), jewellery or leather goods. Examples are Hermes, Chanel, YSL, Dior, Cartier and Boucheron.

Independent - very small fragrance artisans and companies with very limited production, perhaps using only fine, natural materials. Main focus is on artisanship and not commercialism. Examples are Anya McCoy, Liz Zorn/Siovohle, and Ayala Moriel.

What would you say Creed is, then? It seems to fall into none of your categories.

Agreed.

The whole Mugler concept and it's limited release of flankers embodies the concept of niche in my mind

Niche?