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The Guerlain with Multiple Personalities.

post #1 of 26
7/18/10 at 12:25am
Thread Starter 
I speak of Shalimar, iconic top seller for Guerlain. OMG! There is Shalimar extrait, Shalimar EDP, Shalimar EDC, Shalimar Eau Legere (two versions), and next Shalimar Ode de la Vanille. Heavans to Sigmund Freud it doesn't stop there. Think of all of the "Limited Editions" like Oiseau de Paradis and more. So, where am I going with this? I would like to see a return to new fragrances of quality that will become the classics of tomorrow and that will not happen by resting on the laurels of Shalimar. Where are these new fragrances? IMO Idylle certainly isn't one. Where are the new classics. Time to send the marketing people on a long vacation and get the creative people working. Don't get me wrong. I love the house of Guerlain, enough to care what happens to it. I have Mitsouko flowing in my veins.
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post #2 of 26
7/18/10 at 3:17am
You could almost say they have all their eggs in one basket with Shalimar - Its their top selling perfume so they gonna flog it do death with a gazillion flankers . New - ish classics start with the Parisienne line perhaps ? I dont know ?

Ive thought it for a long time they seem to be at a crossroads and Im not sure if its LVMH to blame or not ???

The old austere classics , crazy priced special or limited editions and shovel ware like Idylle and Monsieur Guerlain
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post #3 of 26
7/18/10 at 3:33am
Indeed! You are 100% right, N_Tesla - where are the new classics??? Idylle is a nondescript, average rosy floral - and the latest Aqua Allegoria with overtones of honey is - a failure - if I dare say so. Nevertheless, I'll always be addicted to Mitsouko.
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post #4 of 26
7/18/10 at 4:33am
The new classics are few and far between because so many fragrances seem to lack a point of view. If they do, they have such a restricted distribution/high price that not enough people get to know and love them...
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post #5 of 26
7/18/10 at 9:31am
I hate flankers and refuse even to try them unless I come upon one by accident in a swap. Why not just keep the classics, which will be new for every new generation, and add unique scents to them? That was a rhetorical question. I know why (IFRA and reformulation), but that still doesn't excuse the litters of flankers spawned by every popular scent.
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post #6 of 26
7/18/10 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tott View Post

The new classics are few and far between because so many fragrances seem to lack a point of view. If they do, they have such a restricted distribution/high price that not enough people get to know and love them...

I agree with this.
There seems to be little direction too . No 'real' inspiration to create a masterpiece /new classic.
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post #7 of 26
7/18/10 at 11:44am
*looks at Thierry Wasser*
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post #8 of 26
7/18/10 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
My thoughts precisely!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post

*looks at Thierry Wasser*
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post #9 of 26
7/18/10 at 1:27pm
Unfortunately the ones that could have been classics were hard to find and are now discontinued: Sous le Vent and Attrape Coeur
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post #10 of 26
7/19/10 at 2:41am
I think you are going to wait a very long time for the "new classics". The marketing policy has changed, and classics are not needed. Have a big launch, spend far, far more on the bottle and the ads than the fragrance itself, hope to recoup your investment; and then on to the next. There in no attempt to create classics; they are no longer wanted, except by a very small minority. So sad, but true.
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post #11 of 26
7/22/10 at 5:12am
I think David's point gets to the heart of the matter. Much as I love Guerlain, there's little doubt that its current agenda is not necessarily to produce fragrances that will endure, but ones which will achieve instant success. If we want classics, in the truest sense of the word, we probably need to turn to niche houses.

Having said that, I must stress that I'm not as damning as other people of recent Guerlain efforts. I actually quite like Idylle (there's a review on my site) although I concede it isn't a masterpiece. And whilst L'Homme doesn't appeal to me personally, it does what it does fairly well. I think Wasser may yet impress us all.
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post #12 of 26
7/23/10 at 12:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by persolaise View Post

I think David's point gets to the heart of the matter. Much as I love Guerlain, there's little doubt that its current agenda is not necessarily to produce fragrances that will endure, but ones which will achieve instant success. If we want classics, in the truest sense of the word, we probably need to turn to niche houses.

Having said that, I must stress that I'm not as damning as other people of recent Guerlain efforts. I actually quite like Idylle (there's a review on my site) although I concede it isn't a masterpiece. And whilst L'Homme doesn't appeal to me personally, it does what it does fairly well. I think Wasser may yet impress us all.

I wouldnt say he's bad, although idylle and homme is dissapointing but he still has quand de vent de la pluie and tonka imperiale. havent tried those tho.
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post #13 of 26
7/23/10 at 12:57am
To be fair, Guerlain is not the only house with schizophrenia. Just look at Chanel: they're also churning out generics to the populace and reserving the good stuff for those who actually make an effort to find them and are willing to pay through the nose and jump through hoops to get their hands on them...
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post #14 of 26
7/23/10 at 1:22am
It is the policy of pretty well every major player. Launch "Smell", then "Smell for Men", then "Smell 2", "Smell 2 for Men", "Smell Lite", "Smell Lite for Men", etc. etc. Flankers and"Special Editions", all designed for a big launch and then to be quietly forgotten.
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post #15 of 26
7/23/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post

*looks at Thierry Wasser*

Yeah , here's looking at you Thierry Wasser..........( Your surname is appropriate. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwen_elf View Post

Unfortunately the ones that could have been classics were hard to find and are now discontinued: Sous le Vent and Attrape Coeur

Agreed !
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post #16 of 26
7/23/10 at 8:37am
maybe it comes down to dollars and cents instead of scents. I could make the case that they have to crank out a few mediocre sellers to support the occasional obscure/interesting one. Just because as other companies just start pushing out hundreds, the one masterpiece release by Guerlain every 5 years will simply get lost in the shuffle.
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post #17 of 26
7/23/10 at 8:49pm
I thought I'd mention Plus Que Jamais, but I don't know how "new" it is.

It's such a classic, to my mind. I love it.
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post #18 of 26
8/3/10 at 4:27pm
I wanted to get some really good fragrances in my wardrobe again, and I was getting soooo tired of all the hundreds new fragarances, all either non-descript sweet and flowery, or just plain vile.
I was just about to think I simply didn't like fragrances anymore until a whiff of Kelly Caleche saved me.

I am afraid it's all about selling a ''name'' nowadays, either a celebrity, or an old classic perfume revamped, and de-souled.
I do think most houses really prefer to be able to launch a hip new fragrance, with a new name every few years, instead of being all stodgy and static with a timeless classic.
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post #19 of 26
8/4/10 at 4:58am
The timeless classics are huge cash cows, though, let's not forget that. Shalimar, N°5, Joy, L'Air du Temps and Youth Dew are still big sellers, N°5 is probably a substantial part of the finanicial backbone of Chanel. I think it's easy to forget that there are newer classics in the making, too; I wouldn't hesitate to put Angel, Cool Water, Fahrenheit and Light Blue in that category, for example. They are not unlikely to prove as tenacious as some of the old ones have.
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post #20 of 26
8/4/10 at 5:17am
Monsieur Tesla, a query:

Are you calling for Guerlain to return to classical French perfumery of the highest order?

Or alternatively, for Guerlain's modern releases to aspire to a standard of excellence in keeping with their illustrious forebears?
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post #21 of 26
8/4/10 at 3:08pm
Thread Starter 
Emlynevermore; Thank you for your query. In answer, I think some of both. The classics should remain true to their original high standard of ingredients and the new fragrances should aspire to the standard of excellence with their fore bearers. Guerlain's standard of excellence should be applied to new progressive fragrances while maintaining the heritage of it's past. Where, after all, is the luxury in creating fragrances compromised by limiting creativity of the noses and using inferior compositional materials? Guerlain and luxury IMO should be one and the same.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlynevermore View Post

Monsieur Tesla, a query:

Are you calling for Guerlain to return to classical French perfumery of the highest order?

Or alternatively, for Guerlain's modern releases to aspire to a standard of excellence in keeping with their illustrious forebears?
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post #22 of 26
8/5/10 at 4:35pm
Every classic house seems to have its "popular" launch to the masses. YSL had Parisienne. Fun scent and very youthful, but not a classic.

I am pinning my hopes on the Guerlain Arsene Lupin duo for something classy and not just some interpretation of aquatics for men. (The notes do seem interesting, esp. the violet and leather...)
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post #23 of 26
8/7/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillaire View Post

I thought I'd mention Plus Que Jamais, but I don't know how "new" it is. It's such a classic, to my mind. I love it.

PQJ is the most beautiful chypre of recent years! Unfortunately, Guerlain discontinued it.
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post #24 of 26
8/11/10 at 6:55pm
This is a very interesting discussion. I think schizophrenia is a good word for it. I've said this before, but I may as well be the voice in the wilderness again: what I'm increasingly dismayed by is what seems to me like Guerlain's attempt to run after the niche market with the Art et la Matière line and the Elixirs Charnels line, all packaged in tall square plain glass bottles with orientalist names like "Chypre fatal." Um, paging Serge Lutens anyone? The scents themselves haven't impressed me much at all. The point is, if I want niche, I'll go to Lutens. But that's not what I want from Guerlain. From Guerlain, I want the absolute best quality, the most exquisite, romantic packaging, all in the very best tradition of French perfumery. At least Idylle, while only so-so, wasn't yet another Lutens clone.

As Tott rightly pointed out, this isn't specific to Guerlain. I felt my heart sink when I heard about Chanel's new Bleu, which, I'm told, is pretty awful. Meanwhile they've discontinued No. 19 parfum in the USA, so now that and Bois des Iles parfum, my two Chanel standbys, are now practically impossible to get...

I also don't agree that "tradition" and "innovation" are polar opposites. Look at the Robert Piguet re-releases: they are of extremely high quality while remaining faithful to the spirit of the originals and complying with the draconian EU regs.
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post #25 of 26
8/16/10 at 4:22am
I hate flankers and refuse even to try them unless I come upon one by accident in a swap. Why not just keep the classics, which will be new for every new generation, and add unique scents to them? That was a rhetorical question. I know why (IFRA and reformulation), but that still doesn't excuse the litters of flankers spawned by every popular scent.

__________________________________________________ _____________
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post #26 of 26
8/22/10 at 6:04pm
So I lucked out in my vintage shop snooping and picked up a half bottle of Shalimar EdC which looks to date from some time in the 60's (thanks Cleopatra's Boutique for the guides) and . . .wow. I never understood why Shalimar gets praised as the alpha and omegas of orientals; the current version is only so much frilly lace and powder over vanilla. This stuff's top notes are mainly gone (no surprise) but what's left is magical blend of civet and vanilla without a trace of powder. It delicately balances the sweet vanilla gourmand aspect with a weird sweaty sheen of the animalic with no hint of the "amber" note that marks many modern orientals. It's awesome. But now I share the sadness over Guerlain =(
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