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Shocking news!  

post #1 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

This is very sad news.

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post #2 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:39pm
That is soooo bad.
post #3 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:41pm
Oh that's dreadful. To kill a man because he stole a perfume. Dear oh dear.
post #4 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:41pm
i wonder what the fragrance he stole that was to die for
post #5 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:42pm
He could have gone for something a little better than Joop!

Sad though.
post #6 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:51pm
Ironic when I go to that page a Fragrancenet ad pops up for discount perfume
post #7 of 51
9/22/10 at 3:59pm
Don't steal perfume.
post #8 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:11pm
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Absolutely dreadful..
post #9 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBond007 View Post

i wonder what the fragrance he stole that was to die for

It was Joop!

While this is horrible, questions come to mind. For example, why did the other three guards not restrain their fellow guard? Are they charged with complicity? Were any of the guards injured in the scuffle?

While the article presents a horrible picture, I am not sure it is sufficiently complete.
post #10 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:20pm
Unbelievable.
post #11 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:31pm
Just terrible really. Not that I want to be judegmental but the security guard looks a right nasty piece of work in that photo.
post #12 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:37pm
That news article literally made me queasy. Who the hell would kill somebody for shoplifting? What is wrong with people?
post #13 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:44pm
That's just a horrible & tragic event that did not need to happen.
post #14 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:51pm
This is clearly a creature who enjoys a uniform and the little bit of power it gives him. He is a vile squalid sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth who should go down for life!!!!!
post #15 of 51
9/22/10 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentsableguy View Post

This is clearly a creature who enjoys a uniform and the little bit of power it gives him. He is a vile squalid sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth who should go down for life!!!!!

I second that.
post #16 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post

It was Joop!

While this is horrible, questions come to mind. For example, why did the other three guards not restrain their fellow guard? Are they charged with complicity? Were any of the guards injured in the scuffle?

While the article presents a horrible picture, I am not sure it is sufficiently complete.

Joop to die for? what is the world coming to?
post #17 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBond007 View Post

i wonder what the fragrance he stole that was to die for

That'd suck if it was like an Aspen value pack..
post #18 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post

That'd suck if it was like an Aspen value pack..

lmao yea but it was joop which is even worse, if you are going to steal one steal clive christian or creed, steal millions do not steal joop lmao.
post #19 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:31pm
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^Someone just died a rather brutal death. Hello.
post #20 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentsableguy View Post

This is clearly a creature who enjoys a uniform and the little bit of power it gives him. He is a vile squalid sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth who should go down for life!!!!!

I believe the term is deindividualism which basically means that, in a state of anonymity people are more likely to do more extreme radical actions. The guard also did have a uniform which adds furthur to the anonymity and feeling less of his own identity. Often times feeling the need to conform to listen to authority as well. Also possibly the guard rationalized his actions by dehumanizing thieves and therefore felt justified in his actions. According to Philip Zimbardo's famous Standford prison experiment, ALL people are capable of becoming "evil" based on his experiment which caused a group of smart, standard standford students to become sadistic prison guards and torture and abuse other peers of their same age. It is not so much ALWAYS due to dispositional attributions within an individual but sometimes due to the situational attribution. However, most of society today seems to make the fundamental attribution error and commonly blame the disposition. Just a thought, for all I know he really could be a "sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth" haha
post #21 of 51
9/22/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewfoo View Post

^Someone just died a rather brutal death. Hello.

Indeed. If he was alright then maybe, but he was slowly choked to death.
post #22 of 51
9/23/10 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewfoo View Post

^Someone just died a rather brutal death. Hello.

Agreed. Show some reverence DavidBond007, please.
post #23 of 51
9/23/10 at 5:25am
Absolutely horrendous. I'd never condone shoplifting but to say the reaction was over the top is a massive understatement. The culprit deserves to go down for a very long time.
post #24 of 51
9/23/10 at 6:31am
Its shocking that he would steal something that was only £35 which goes to prove that thieves have very poor taste
post #25 of 51
9/23/10 at 7:36am
I can kinda understand wanting to kill someone over Joop. I mean, have you smelled that stuff?
post #26 of 51
9/23/10 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slushiex3 View Post

I believe the term is deindividualism which basically means that, in a state of anonymity people are more likely to do more extreme radical actions. The guard also did have a uniform which adds furthur to the anonymity and feeling less of his own identity. Often times feeling the need to conform to listen to authority as well. Also possibly the guard rationalized his actions by dehumanizing thieves and therefore felt justified in his actions. According to Philip Zimbardo's famous Standford prison experiment, ALL people are capable of becoming "evil" based on his experiment which caused a group of smart, standard standford students to become sadistic prison guards and torture and abuse other peers of their same age. It is not so much ALWAYS due to dispositional attributions within an individual but sometimes due to the situational attribution. However, most of society today seems to make the fundamental attribution error and commonly blame the disposition. Just a thought, for all I know he really could be a "sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth" haha

Youtube Ted talks - Zimbardo does an interesting presentation all about that. basically stating that context/situational factors are more/as important then disposition or what's learned.
post #27 of 51
9/23/10 at 9:36am
I'm appalled. People are paying £35 for Joop!? What's the world coming to...

As for the guard. Excessive force? Yes, but it might not be out of malice. Security guards are paid to use their strength prevent people stealing and making trouble. Wise judgment and careful thinking are not job requirements to be a mall cop; there's no guarantee the guard was the sharpest melon baller in the kitchenware shop, if you catch my meaning. He could have just been doing what he thought of as his job.
post #28 of 51
9/23/10 at 10:01am
That "security guard" needs to go to prison for a long, long time.
post #29 of 51
9/23/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by calero View Post

Unbelievable.

No, Joop!
post #30 of 51
9/23/10 at 11:13am
So, someone has decided that the price of a human life should be £35? Gruesomely.
post #31 of 51
9/24/10 at 2:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugandaraja View Post

I'm appalled. People are paying £35 for Joop!? What's the world coming to...

As for the guard. Excessive force? Yes, but it might not be out of malice. Security guards are paid to use their strength prevent people stealing and making trouble. Wise judgment and careful thinking are not job requirements to be a mall cop; there's no guarantee the guard was the sharpest melon baller in the kitchenware shop, if you catch my meaning. He could have just been doing what he thought of as his job.

Exactly. It's like these idiots who commit crimes and then get tased and have a heart attack and then their family tries to sue the police for murder-- despite the fact that they were high on cocaine, pcp, etc, and had a history of heart problems...Or situations of air rage where somebody freaks out on an airplane and has to be restrained and then dies--same thing. It's like the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on any time somebody attacks a cop with a knife and gets filled with lead-- you always see a bunch of know-it-alls saying "well, they could have shot him in the leg" or something. Come on.

None of us were there-- I doubt the security guard tried to kill him, he could have had health issues--also, I believe the article stated that the thief tried to physically resist being apprehended. It's sad that the guy died-- no doubt about it-- but if it's in anyway "tragic", it's only tragic that he only considered his own life worth $35. The thief was only a victim of his own poor judgment. I'm anything but heartless, but people have to be responsible for their own behavior. Nobody thinks we should live in the times of the Bloody Code, but seriously, criminals shouldn't expect the red carpet either.
post #32 of 51
9/24/10 at 2:45am
I think that everyone needs to take a moment and take a deep breath .... I think it was a case of accidental death as opposed to heavy handed cold blooded murder . No it should have never happened , but then again it wouldnt have had the bottle of perfume not been stolen in the first place ...

.... Its not like his children were starving and he stole food to feed them with .
post #33 of 51
9/24/10 at 4:14am
Another article on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-s...wales-11389896
post #34 of 51
9/24/10 at 4:53am
So it seems even the manager was clueless about inappropriate ways of restraining. Did that guard have any actual, proper training, I wonder? Or was he just hired muscle?

If objecting verbally wasn't enough to save this man's life, what should bystanders ideally have done?
I asked myself what I hope I would think to do if I saw this happening, and I've concluded that calling 911 as soon as it became apparent that the guard was choking the man would be the best action, although help might still not have arrived quickly enough.
post #35 of 51
9/24/10 at 5:01am
Horrible, simply horrible. Those two articles made me all sad.
What must that poor man not have been thinking while slowly
dying ... oh God, poor fellow! Not to mention his family! Jeez!
post #36 of 51
9/24/10 at 5:15am
A disgrace. Period. And TRAGIC for this man's family.
post #37 of 51
9/24/10 at 6:00am
This is very unspeakable act!Kill someone for stealing a perfume !Can't bear the thought of it!
My sympathy to the victim's family !!!
post #38 of 51
9/24/10 at 6:13am
Let's not forget that the victim was a soldier. Four men were needed to hold him down...

That being said, the security guard should be in jail. He was doing a chokehold the wrong way.
At least use a taser or pepperspray, if that's legal.
post #39 of 51
9/24/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neal View Post

Agreed. Show some reverence DavidBond007, please.

I think he was referring to the fragrance choice that was funny, not the actual death. Chill.
post #40 of 51
9/24/10 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post

I think he was referring to the fragrance choice that was funny, not the actual death. Chill.

+ 1
post #41 of 51
9/24/10 at 7:43am
The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”
post #42 of 51
9/24/10 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeB View Post

The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”

Next time some pipe wielding crackhead tries to smash out my windows and burglarize my home, I think I'll call an Irish poet!
post #43 of 51
9/24/10 at 10:48am
This is very sad.....Gary
post #44 of 51
9/24/10 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post

Next time some pipe wielding crackhead tries to smash out my windows and burglarize my home, I think I'll call an Irish poet!

Considering Mr. Behan famously did time for attempting to blow up the Liverpool docks ( among other violent acts ), you just might already have one with you!

Sad how many people hate the police ( usually right up until the point they really, really need the police ).
post #45 of 51
9/24/10 at 11:55am
JamieB wrote: The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”


Wow, a lot of hate on these boards today. This thread no longer has anything to do with fragrance, does it? I think the actions of one civilian department store security guard in England do not represent the law enforcement profession. Police are asked not to stereotype, why is ok to stereotype the police? Perhaps I'm ultra sensitive because I am cop, or because my father, a cop, gave his life protecting someone whose name he didn't even know. Jaime, spend a day with me--an hour--answering 911 calls. You may encounter a few people whose lives are not made more miserable by my presence.
post #46 of 51
9/24/10 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNY View Post

JamieB wrote: The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”


Wow, a lot of hate on these boards today. This thread no longer has anything to do with fragrance, does it? I think the actions of one civilian department store security guard in England do not represent the law enforcement profession. Police are asked not to stereotype, why is ok to stereotype the police? Perhaps I'm ultra sensitive because I am cop, or because my father, a cop, gave his life protecting someone whose name he didn't even know. Jaime, spend a day with me--an hour--answering 911 calls. You may encounter a few people whose lives are not made more miserable by my presence.

Yes, & it was a security guard who killed the guy, not a cop! lt was a cop who tried to revive him, unfortunately too late. You boys in blue do a great job in very difficult circumstances & l for one am glad you're there.
post #47 of 51
9/24/10 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

Yes, & it was a security guard who killed the guy, not a cop! lt was a cop who tried to revive him, unfortunately too late. You boys in blue do a great job in very difficult circumstances & l for one am glad you're there.

+1 to that sentiment. Well said.
post #48 of 51
9/24/10 at 2:17pm
@ MikeNY, I've been thinking about this incident and am wondering what the best action would be for a civilian who saw something like this happening. At first I thought, "call 911" but as the police were already on their way, this wouldn't have helped.

What say you?
post #49 of 51
9/24/10 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post

@ MikeNY, I've been thinking about this incident and am wondering what the best action would be for a civilian who saw something like this happening. At first I thought, "call 911" but as the police were already on their way, this wouldn't have helped.

What say you?

This is a tough one. The security guard is clearly not playing with a full deck and was a threat to everyone there. Apparently his partners tried to intervene unsuccessfully. Could the bystanders have assisted the others and pulled him off? Possibly, but not without risk of getting injured or killed themselves. I feel that one should weigh the totality of the circumstances and act accordingly while considering their own safety. But the victim was clearly dying and one might have had to put their own safety on the line to help another. Purely a judgement call which needed to be made in an instant and not having been there, I can not judge anyone's actions.

And thanks to indie guy, sugarandaja, teardrop, and gmmcnair!

Can we go back to talking about fragrances now? I come here to escape all this!
post #50 of 51
9/24/10 at 3:30pm
Thanks Mike, that makes sense...and maybe this thread ought to be moved to Off Topic?
post #51 of 51
9/24/10 at 4:40pm
I hope this is not too much off-topic, because I don't want to argue the point. I accept that others may disagree with me, no problem there.

It was not my intention to offend, I was merely quoting something that came into my head. I have known many fine policemen in my day, especially back in my New York days. I probably posted rashly and ill-advisedly. I hope anyone who felt offended at my remark will be kind enough to recognize it wasn't meant to be hurtful, and be gracious enough to forgive me.

But I do wish that people would get my name right; It's JaimeB, not JamieB. The name is Spanish, not English, but it is my name. Thank you for at least trying...
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