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just recieved my absolutes in perfumers alcohol.. has anyone worked with these? plus my rough ideas.

post #1 of 23
11/11/10 at 6:42am
Thread Starter 
they are 10 ml bottles with 2mls absolutes in. my faves are the tonka bean, oakmoss, tobbacco leaf and labdanum.. the tonka smells like sugary marzipan, the oakmoss annd tobacco are awesome

Has anyone else tried perfumery alcohol tinctures and how did your creations work out?!
bluebell x
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post #2 of 23
11/11/10 at 1:28pm
Thread Starter 
sorry posted my blend in a diff post..

oil and perfumers alcohol tinctures tinctures..
labdanum
,cedarwood
,tonka bean,
balsum peru,
opoponax,
vanilla,
tobacco leaf
cocoa
,oakmoss
natural musk blend

(30-35mls alcohol (plus the included abs)
base oils

labdanum
cedar
balsum peru
benzoin
vanilla abs
opoponax
patchuli
vetivert
oakmoss
cinnamon

heart oils
neroli abs
tuberose abs
ylang ylang
pettigrain
corriander

top oils
bergamot
orange.. bitter/sweet/ blood , not sure yet

(12 ml oils and abs)
5mls water
few drops glycerine


Any advice on this mix apreciated!.. are there too many oils? are there more suited ones etc.
many
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post #3 of 23
11/14/10 at 1:11pm
Just out of curiosity, where did you purchase these?
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post #4 of 23
11/14/10 at 2:56pm
I'm not sure I understand your question. Are the absolutes that you received pre-diluted in alcohol, or did you dilute them?
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post #5 of 23
11/14/10 at 6:17pm
How is working with labdanum tincture? I love the absolute but cannot seem to work with it without making a serious mess.
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post #6 of 23
11/15/10 at 2:48am
Thread Starter 
hi guys..elly.. the ones in alcohol that i lidsted are pre diluted in lcohol, 20% absolute, 80% alcohol,
gwperfumer.. i got them from

http://www.essentially-me.co.uk/ under extraits.. they are lovely quality
scottb.. the alcohol labdanum tincture is a dream to work with i also have labdanum essential oil and that is sooo viscous, i have to warm it up in hot water to use it.. i don't think i could cope with the pure absolute, it ust be impossible to work with

bluebell x
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post #7 of 23
11/15/10 at 3:02am
The only thing that seriously bothers me about the essentially me extraits is that they mention that they already blend the perfumers alcohol with a blend of essential oils for six months to soften it. I would like to know what those oils are as I would not like to feel I was blending a perfume with an unknown quantity within if I used them without knowing the answer to that question.

Taken from their site:-

'To encourage the softening process we add a blend of essential oils, which also act as fixatives and other botanical extracts to make it more gentle on the skin. The alcohol is aged for at least six months before we use it make up extraits.'
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post #8 of 23
11/15/10 at 3:32am
Thread Starter 
hi mumsy yes thats a good point.. i bought a small bottle of pure perfumers alcohol and it smelled a bit like sandalwood and frankincense, but thats just my noses guess
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post #9 of 23
11/15/10 at 7:07am
Seeing as you are a customer. I would imagine you had the right to ask them exactly what is in it, and in what proportions, as it will certainly have an effect on your blends. Please report here if you do as I was wondering what they did anyway.

I got my alcohol from Mistral and it has no smell, just is very alcohol fumey. I do have an alcohol tincture of Frankincense on the go and it is certainly mellowing with it. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't mellow on its own. Maybe it does.
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post #10 of 23
11/15/10 at 7:34pm
Most absolutes are not difficult to work with if you heat them a little, just as you say you do with the labdanum. You can then make up whatever % dilution you need, in whatever solvent you prefer. I suspect that it's much cheaper to buy pure absolutes (even though they may seem expensive) and make your own dilutions than it is to buy pre-diluted absolutes. This also allows you to use them as is, in small weighed quantities, diluting them in your other materials. Using pure absolutes is not only more cost-effective, it gives you much more control over your formula.

In any case, you should find out what essential oils are in the formulas that you bought, in what amounts. There's nothing wrong with using pre-mixed materials of this sort, but you will end up stuck having to use them repeatedly every time you make the fragrance in which you used them (or reformulate).
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post #11 of 23
11/16/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

The only thing that seriously bothers me about the essentially me extraits is that they mention that they already blend the perfumers alcohol with a blend of essential oils for six months to soften it. I would like to know what those oils are as I would not like to feel I was blending a perfume with an unknown quantity within if I used them without knowing the answer to that question.

Taken from their site:-

'To encourage the softening process we add a blend of essential oils, which also act as fixatives and other botanical extracts to make it more gentle on the skin. The alcohol is aged for at least six months before we use it make up extraits.'

traditionally, benzoin was used for this purpose. it was added to the alcohol beforehand to soften it, and to lower the evaporation rate. arctander mentions that this was done by manufacturers of colognes and lotions.

i have no clue what essentially me uses. i bet they are not going to tell (trade secret) by you can always try.
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post #12 of 23
11/16/10 at 10:10am
You can always buy the absolutes and dillute them yourself. This way you can make it a 15% or 20% or 25% depending on the strength of the absolute.

Back to BlueBellGirl's question - in my opinion, wayyyyy too many items in that mix. What sort of scent are you looking to create?
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post #13 of 23
11/16/10 at 10:12am
Also, doesnt look like you've got anything to use for middle notes in there. It's all base notes and top notes
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post #14 of 23
11/16/10 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincents1278 View Post

Back to BlueBellGirl's question - in my opinion, wayyyyy too many items in that mix. What sort of scent are you looking to create?

way too many natural items, in my opinion. cut back all that is not essential, and replace the effect you are looking for with something more pure and simple in odor profile, that is, a chemical. all these naturals are composed by nature of many chemicals. this mix probably consist of thousands of chemicals, making it's intention and shape most likely unclear and clouded, or even muddled.

if you are a natural perfumer, either way look for natural isolates, or forget my comments, please. i am not looking for a chemical vs natural argument/discussion. i'm just trying to help.
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post #15 of 23
11/17/10 at 5:23am
Thread Starter 
i really apreciate your advice.. you are sooo right.. it is horrid!!!!!!! im going to start again and cut back loads
i want an amber theme with orange blossom and a little touch of incense and thats not what ive got. it is way to muddled!!! thank you so much
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post #16 of 23
11/17/10 at 6:09am
i would say, focus on the main shape that you have in mind. hold back on any piece that does not exactly fits the puzzle. if there's something 'sticking out' in any unwanted direction, like in the puzzle metaphor, it does not fit. leave it out. be generous with the amber, orange blossom and incense, build the base first. then use to other notes carefully as modifiers, but make sure they don't make your base stray in any unwanted direction, don't depress any of the main theme notes too much, etc. after that you could see if any additional notes are required up top. bergamot leaves an lasting amber impression, so that one is good, orange might work well with the orange flowers, and might double up as a masking agent for unwanted aspects from the base and heartnotes up top, etc. you need to aim for a seamless connection.

btw, what you describe as the main accord, that is typically an floral oriental. important chemicals used for this type are aldehydes, spicy notes like (iso-)eugenol (you can use some naturals too, like cloves, use your fantasy, don't overdo it though), and some soft powdery musks. and orange flower works very well in floral bouquets, adding florals like jasmine, carnation (connects with the eugenol) or whatever you fancy, that's not a bad thing.

just keep the final shape in mind with anything you do. you want to make a perfume, not a bunch of smells together.

good luck!
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post #17 of 23
11/18/10 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 
omg, thank you so much.. that is so helpful im so glad ive joined here im def a newbe in perfume .its much harder than aromatherapy do u know where i can buy the aldehydes in uk? again, thank you, bluebell
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post #18 of 23
11/18/10 at 12:26pm
you're welcome.

i think there was something in the uk, but i can't seem to remember, maybe i am mistaking.. search this forum, i think this question got answered before.

i mostly order by hekserij.nl. they have good quality stuff, for a decent price and you can buy very small amounts too. (aldehydes are incredibly powerful, and not nice when smelled pure. use them sparingly and only in dilution, like 1% or something). plus, the owner is a friendly and very helpful guy, he used to write here as janmeut and answer people's questions. a great alternative if you cannot find anything locally.

you can learn about the aldehydes here and here too what you are looking for are aldehydes c8, c9, c10, c11, c12. (aka octanal, nonanal, decanal, undecanal and dodecanal). the number is about the amount of carbon chains, the higher it is the longer the odor will last (because they are bigger molecules). they all smell different, but related.

btw, hekserij.nl sell much more than on the pricelist, just ask the owner.

best,
gido.
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post #19 of 23
11/19/10 at 7:58am
i just made a new thread, posting a link to some files with extensive information about aldehydes.

bluebellgirl, you might find this an interesting read.

i haven't said much about what the aldehydes can do to you blend. used in tiny amounts of diluted aldehydes (more for it's effect than it's odor) they add lift and sparkle. they provide a white backdrop for your other ingredients to paint on to.

get some musks too, while you're at it. their powdery softness and rounding out properties work very well in floral oriental perfumes. it's up to you how much you use them, but even a small amount can make a big difference. enter 'site:thegoodscentscompany.com musk' in google will give you hundreds of results with different types of musk. common types are: galaxolide, exaltolide, ethyl brassylate, musk ketone (a classic nitro musk, one of the most used in the part with musk ambrette, now restricted but very nice), velvione, muscone, etc. etc. btw. in contrary to popular belief, most musks do not smell very animalic at all. most of them smell rather clean. they are very important materials in fabric softener.
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post #20 of 23
11/19/10 at 12:01pm
BlueBellGirl,

I think that for starters you should try to work something using what you've got. You have enough scents to work with and can create something you're looking for. The key is to limit the amount of notes used in the scent and explore accords and scent families. For example, try to make something that has only 3 base notes, 3 middle notes and 3 top notes. The base should be about 50% of the mix. If you're using 20 drops then ten should come from the base oils, 25 - 30% for middle and 20 - 25% for top.

Create accords to familiarize yourself with the scents you own. Use small empty vials to put two drops each of three base notes, label your vials and give them a day or two to combine. Give them a sniff and see what works and what doesn't.

Powdery notes can be achieved without aldehydes. Agarwood, Atlas Cedar, Rose, Vanilla, Coumarin, Labdanum, etc... can be used to create these effects. Of course this takes practice and patience. If you want instant results you can buy a synthetic that mimics this but will lack the complexity, in my opinion.

Think about how deep you want to get into this before you go purchasing a ton of synthetics.
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post #21 of 23
11/22/10 at 3:54am
Thread Starter 
thank you vincent thats a real help actually, the ambery one and an oriental floral one have actually settled into a nce perfume, i like them, and its interesting cos they kept changing every day, but for the last few days they have remained stable. I will use them, but i have learnt lessons

I'm going to get some small vials and experiment with small quantities next time and i will think it through with all of your advices, and cut down on the amount of oils and play around with accords . i was a bit hasty making up two bottles of 50mls each as they have ended up being very expensive with all the oils

. bluebell x
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post #22 of 23
11/25/10 at 6:15am
I know the excitement of mixing your own blends. You can wind up wasting a lot of oils, like you said. It can be frustrating when you want to create and have to wait and wait for your experiments to meld over a couple of days before you can tell if you like them or not. Then you add the alcohol and have to wait a couple weeks for everything to come together.
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post #23 of 23
11/27/10 at 4:26am
Thread Starter 
I've got some vials now so i can experiment with small amounts
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