*Campaign to Bring Back Patou Pour Homme and Pour Homme Prive*

Originally Posted by bokaba

I contacted P & G recently by email urging them to bring back these scents and they said given the popularity of vintage type scents, they were interested. This seems to be an improvement over saying they were not interested in past years.

Originally Posted by Bigsly

If it happens, then you have to worry that they'd replace the base with something bland/generic.

Originally Posted by Trebor

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, even if they were re-released, they'd be reformulated and cheapened (remember, we're talking about Proctor & Gamble here - wakey, wakey!).

Then Basenoters will no longer be complaining about the discontinuation of these two 'classics' but, instead, b*tching about how they have both been butchered.

Give up the ghost and move on, I say...

Originally Posted by scentsitivity

Some of us don't know what the originals smell like, so we will be delusionally blissful regardless of what we get.

Originally Posted by bokaba

I agree that P&G might cheapen them (like Old Spice), but at least they would be available for less than $1000 per bottle. I don't understand why it would be so difficult to replicate the original--Jean Patou is still in business and presumably still has the formulas given they were discontinued about ten years ago--we're not asking them to replicate some ghost from 80 years ago now. The materials available in 2010 are most likely still available today. Keep emailing and tell your friends, too.

Originally Posted by bokaba

I agree that P&G might cheapen them (like Old Spice), but at least they would be available for less than $1000 per bottle. I don't understand why it would be so difficult to replicate the original--Jean Patou is still in business and presumably still has the formulas given they were discontinued about ten years ago--we're not asking them to replicate some ghost from 80 years ago now. The materials available in 2000 are most likely still available today. Keep emailing and tell your friends, too.

Originally Posted by david

Thanks Bokaba,
This is a great idea - consumer power often wins - and when not, we will at least have made P&G aware of what a gem they have.
I am also trying things from another angle. I am currently in discussion with smaller producers of fragrances in Italy, with the idea of cloning PPH , (purely for private use). With the help of specialised equipment it is possible to get an exact copy. Re-creating exactly the original fragrance is not the problem. The problem is the cost factor involved when ordering such small scale amounts of fragrance from the manufacturer. I will only pursue my efforts further if I am assured from a company that they really can match the fragrance exactly, not just closely.......and of course....if my purse strings are long enough.

Originally Posted by phibess

Don't agree with David - if it was such a huge flop why did it remain in production for 20 years??

nineXseven - there are tons of frags that are in limited production as exclusifs..(Chanels, Guerlains, Creeds..) so why not PPH? At least make it available at JP boutique (e.g. like Balafre at Lancome in Paris) so that people who really want it aren't forced to pay exorbitant prices for an old juice. It would be a nice gesture from P&G - it doesn't have to be a huge hit available in every dept. store. After all, JP has always been a small high end brand and it should remain such.

Just stop being naysayers and keep sending those damn emails to P&G.

Originally Posted by david

It didn´t. They stopped production after 7 years.

Originally Posted by Trebor

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, even if they were re-released, they'd be reformulated and cheapened (remember, we're talking about Proctor & Gamble here - wakey, wakey!).

Then Basenoters will no longer be complaining about the discontinuation of these two 'classics' but, instead, b*tching about how they have both been butchered.

Give up the ghost and move on, I say...

Originally Posted by phibess

Don't agree with David - if it was such a huge flop why did it remain in production for 20 years??

nineXseven - there are tons of frags that are in limited production as exclusifs..(Chanels, Guerlains, Creeds..) so why not PPH? At least make it available at JP boutique (e.g. like Balafre at Lancome in Paris) so that people who really want it aren't forced to pay exorbitant prices for an old juice. It would be a nice gesture from P&G - it doesn't have to be a huge hit available in every dept. store. After all, JP has always been a small high end brand and it should remain such.

Just stop being naysayers and keep sending those damn emails to P&G.

Originally Posted by phibess

Where did you get this info from? I've seen boxes of PPH that looked like they'd just left the factory and def. did not seem 20+ years old. P&G bought JP in September 2001, the old Basenotes website from 2001 had it listed as 'in production'. I can't find the old archive any more however, have a look at this: http://web.archive.org/web/200112082...continued.html Can you find PPH among those? There was plenty of PPH available on Ebay 5+ years ago.

@Desmond Hume - why produce music, films, perfumes.., publish books.. that don't appeal to masses, right?

Originally Posted by nineXseven

Balafre is available in Paris? Learn something new every day >>feeling stupid<<

Hey don't get me wrong I'm not against it, but P&G isn't Chanel or Lancome.

However I would not welcome a re-issue that was a bastardization of the original. Dior 'brought back' Diorling as a Paris exclusive and not only does it have nothing to do with the original Diorling, the reissue isn't even a good fragrance (in contrast to Diorama, which is both faithful to the original and a damn nice scent). It's an insult to what Diorling once was. If they can't do it right I wouldn't want it done at all.

To be clear no one is "forced to pay" for anything. Purely optional. Just like any rarity and/or artwork it's a matter of supply and demand. PPH was hardly this expensive to source just two years ago when bottles could be plucked now and then for @$2-300. It's precisely threads like this one that create a mystique around the fragrance that drives up prices. In the last couple weeks I've read several posts with the sentiment "I've never tried PPH but I hear it's amazing and wish I could try it!" Once you have people who've never tried a perfume yearn for it the demand will increase, thus the prices will increase. If all the people who have known it was fantastic for years and years had just kept the secret to themselves instead of blabbing it on a message board then the prices probably wouldn't be so absurd right now. Sellers who have stashes of PPH have raised prices from $350 to $750 because they see the chatter and they aren't stupid. Sometimes things are best NOT shared with the rest of the world, ya know? I'm just glad I found my bottle last year. I'd say people should keep threads like this from perpetuating and avoid mentioning PPH in the future but the cat's out of the bag now so what's the point?

Originally Posted by phibess

I guess, we could go on like this forever... This was just a recent effort by two BNers to prompt/organize a small campaign in order to bring PPH back, it's the least thing anyone could do, send an email to P&G.. If you don't like the idea, fine but why come here and post all the negative comments - wouldn't sell, would be reformulated so f@ck it...not worth it etc. I don't refer to you personally...
Sure, some frags have been butchered, I could give you a list of frags that're still pretty good and would rather have these than none at all - Bois des Iles, Diorella...etc.
I don't think this thread creates any mystique in fact, tries the opposite. As for keeping the PPH secret to ourselves - that's a little absurd - this is a fragrance forum where ppl discuss frags and share their opinions. Cat's been out for years now and the prices have been rising for a long time.
I agree, nobody forces anyone to pay $1000 for a frag unless someone wants it bad cos they love it and can't find it elsewhere. Ppl who never tried PPH can always buy samples from PC for couple of bucks instead of dropping a grand on a blind buy.
Re Balafre - that was just an example. Dunno if it's still available at Lancome, a few years back it was, will find out next week in Paris. Same with PPH, I'll be visiting Osmotheque and will ask someone when it was discontinued.

Originally Posted by phibess

Where did you get this info from? I've seen boxes of PPH that looked like they'd just left the factory and def. did not seem 20+ years old. P&G bought JP in September 2001, the old Basenotes website from 2001 had it listed as 'in production'. I can't find the old archive any more however, have a look at this: http://web.archive.org/web/200112082...continued.html Can you find PPH among those? There was plenty of PPH available on Ebay 5+ years ago.

I used to work in the Ka De We store, (Berlin´s equivalent to Harrods) We were told in 87 that production was finished, but there was still plenty of stock available. We could re- order stock until about 1990. Then we were told to mark everything down to half price to get it cleared. I know what you mean about the boxes looking very new. I recently discovered a small perfumery here in France that had some old stock, including the soap. The boxes were in perfect brand- new condition, despite its age. Despite our huge love for this fragrance it was not a financial success.....it was simply too good for the masses and perhaps a little conservative/ dated for its period of release, 1980.

@Desmond Hume - why produce music, films, perfumes.., publish books.. that don't appeal to masses, right?

Originally Posted by nineXseven

When I read someone wants to organize an email campaign because the vintage perfume they enjoy is more rare and more expensive then they would like the vibe I get (and it's just the vibe, no offense intended) is that they're not used to the reality of vintage perfume collecting.

Originally Posted by Schweitzer

This thread is not about vintage perfume "collecting".

After investing a lot of energy, time and money you don't like the idea of a reissue. That's all.

Originally Posted by david

There is another whole different problem here, with doing and wishing something like this.It´s called the basenoters "state-of-mind".
THIS IS MEANT AS NO OFFENCE TO ANY BASENOTER, but even if perfection were achieved and the identical fragrance with the identical components were reborn - many basenoters would say, "IT´S NOT THE SAME, IT´S NOT THE SAME" because that´s the stubborn way many people think here. They would swear that black is white. In another PPH thread when I politely tried to help fellow basenoters by mentioning that there were a few VERY similar fragrances to PPH, (mentioning the names of these fragrances) - I got not one single word of thanks from anyone. In fact I got a kick in the teeth, even though at least one other basenoter, (Dry_Martini) was of the same opinion as myself. This basenoters "state-of-mind" is very destructive and often lacking in the simplest of manners.

Originally Posted by phibess

David , you have to understand that what you perceive as similar/identical/superior isn't necessarily shared by other people. I don't perceive PPH A/S as much being superior to EdT at all nor have I found Blend 30 a twin of PPH just because you or someone else wrote PPH = Blend 30 green.. There are other people that don't perceive thing as you do, it has nothing to do with being stubborn - just that they don't share you opinions/perceptions. I'll be the first to admit PPH = B30.

Please keep sending those emails to P&G..

Originally Posted by pluran

Many fragrances are reissued simply because people tell the companies they want them. There are a handful of people at Procter & Gamble who make the decisions and some of it will have to do with what a few people at Patou think. Jean Kerleo will probably even be asked what he thinks.

It's very likely that it could be reissued if enough people let them know. It doesn't have to be long and complicated. Just let them know how much you like it.

Originally Posted by nineXseven

Like you said, this is a discussion board and I'm just presenting my ideas. If you read my posts I wasn't being negative, I'm not seeking or engaging in an argument that would lock the thread, and I'd certainly enjoy a re-issued PPH (in the event such a thing would occur), I'm simply being realistic and presenting my ideas for why such a re-issue is very unlikely. No hostility is intended or should be inferred.

My realistic approach/opinion is based on what I perceive to be a difference of perspective: For those like myself for whom vintage perfume is their primary (or only) interest in fragrance the rarity, and expense of Patou Pour Homme is typical of vintage I seek to purchase. There are literally hundreds - thousands - of beautiful vintage fragrances that are no longer being produced. Sourcing them requires patience, perseverance, and when you find them to buy them may require hundreds - or thousands - of dollars. A perfume you're looking for may appear once a year (or less) on eBay and if you don't act immediately to buy you may have to wait another year (or more). This is for the most part what it is to collect rare vintage perfumes. Do you see vintage collectors writing letters to Patou to bring back Lasso? How about to Lancome to bring back Fleches? Or maybe we should write Guerlain to bring back Fol Arome? All beautiful, all rare, all absurdly hard to find and expensive to source. It just is what it is. When I read someone wants to organize an email campaign because the vintage perfume they enjoy is more rare and more expensive then they would like the vibe I get (and it's just the vibe, no offense intended) is that they're not used to the reality of vintage perfume collecting.

If you really, really want PPH why not put the effort into finding a bottle? To find a PPH I spent months writing to vintage dealers and asking them to ask their vintage sources. I called mom & pops perfume shops across the planet, and I followed up on every lead. My efforts eventually yielded me a perfect, unused, rare 90ml bottle that wasn't cheap but nor was it anywhere near current prices. To me (and you can look at things differently), this is what you do if you want to enjoy a rare vintage perfume. For myself I like to put the effort into getting a bottle instead of begging the company to make me a new one.

Now we can agree to disagree on whether we would an enjoy an inferior re-issue. Personally I think PPH is beautiful specifically because of the ingredients it employs and how it is constructed using those ingredients. If it were to be remade with inferior materials and is only an approximation of what it once was then precisely what is the point? It would no longer be the same beautiful perfume. Since you brought it up, the 2010 version of Diorella is atrocious and doesn't deserve the name Diorella (IMHO) and I'd absolutely prefer it have been discontinued then bastardized. Diorella IS the melon/chypre topnotes and mossy drydown - without these it's not Diorella anymore. They're just using the old name to sell a new perfume. If PPH didn't have the depth of ingredients it just wouldn't be PPH anymore, it would be something else with the same name. But hey, if you have a different opinion you're of course welcome to it, but personally I can't see the point in having an inferior re-issue.

Before you accuse me of "being negative" my motivation writing this is not to be mean, but rather I'm just presenting my perspective.