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BBC Perfume Documentary - THE VERDICT!

post #1 of 150
6/29/11 at 3:49am
Thread Starter 
So, episode 1 of Ian Denyer's Perfume documentary was broadcast last night on BBC FOUR (and is available on the iPlayer for a few weeks).

Let's get the discussion ball rolling. If you watched it, what did you think?
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post #2 of 150
6/29/11 at 3:51am
i've laready posted on your other thread about the upcoming documentary - think there are a few on the go!
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post #3 of 150
6/29/11 at 3:53am
Here's what I posted on the various other threads;

This was excellent :-) I love the French. Poor Monsieuer Guerlain - from another time and didn't think before he opened his mouth. In a heartbeat his career and the thing he loved was over.

Can't wait till next week's one and VERY jealous of this Chandler character getting to try all the launches!

I thought it was very interesting that during the Hilfiger process that no-one said, well it smells great just now but let's wait and see how it dries down! Not even Tommy himself *eyeroll*

Loved the whole Guerlain back story with the journals that survived the WW2 bombings. How amazing! Looking forward to comparing the "new" shalimar to the traditional one. I've heard a few moans that the juice is pink - but this is what Coco did quite successfuly - translating Coco to Coco Mademoiselle for a different palette. Not everyone likes heavy orientals.

I do think though - if perfume manufacturers spent more on quality ingredients (iris oil was HOW much) and less on stupid "rock and roll bints" to front their fragrance then it may last the distance. Otherwise it seems ultra-faddy to me and I wouldn't personally buy anything Daisy Lowe was involved in.
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post #4 of 150
6/29/11 at 5:07am
I was bored with the Tommy Hilger parts. Hell he was more interest in the bottle design than the perfume.
Chandler sniffing his knee. LOL
The Guerlain sections totally wonderful, total heaven for a Guerlain fan. Interesting they said the iris butter was the most expensive ingredient in Shalimar. Also Shalimar being the corner stone of the house. I felt sad seeing all those bottles of Mitsouko on the conveyor belt!!! It felt like bottle coke or milk!!!!

The fact I thought Jean Paul had retired but it seems he was still working part time and had the final say in all new fragrances until the TV interview. I was surprised at the protest outside the Guerlain boutique!!! Looked like hundreds of people, we never got that from talking about it on the web. LVMH no messing around just sacked him altogether. John Galliano came to mind, same group own Dior.
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post #5 of 150
6/29/11 at 5:24am
I was so excited to watch it !!! Loved the Guerlain stuff and really felt the connection of mutual respect , mentaur and student relationship between Mr Guerlain and Mr Wasser . Then felt bad for Mr Wasser being put into a terrible no win situation after the racism incident which I still say was simply an older gentleman speaking for his time all be it politically incorrect , there was no malice there .

Was that Mme Sylvaine Delacourte in the pink dress with JPG , she is tiny !

Loved Chandler Burr , yes Ive resorted to knee testing too when Im all out of arm space ! Chandler seemed a lot more personable than Luca Turin !

Tommy stuff wasnt all that interesting to me but I guess thats the mainstream perfume industry these days . Marketing and spin doesnt interest me at all but I suppose thats what sells the units to the general consumer .

Really looking forward to more .....
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post #6 of 150
6/29/11 at 5:26am
Any ideas on how the US fragrance lovers can view it?
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post #7 of 150
6/29/11 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvillecreative View Post

Any ideas on how the US fragrance lovers can view it?

Gvillecreative, sorry, I can't help you there. Maybe you need to write to whichever TV station in your area normally broadcasts BBC programmes and ask them if they'll be showing it any time soon.
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post #8 of 150
6/29/11 at 8:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvillecreative View Post

Any ideas on how the US fragrance lovers can view it?

Gvillecreative, sorry, I can't help you there. Maybe you need to write to whichever TV station in your area normally broadcasts BBC programmes and ask them if they'll be showing it any time soon.
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post #9 of 150
6/29/11 at 9:40am
OK, I got fed up with being frustrated and took a tip from the briliant Redneck Perfumisto - thanks sweets .

All those in the US- you can download Expat Shield for free ( takes minutes ) and then go to BBC FOUR's website .You will be able to watch it ! YAY and a huge hug for Mr. Redneck.

The links
http://expatshield.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Something_New/
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post #10 of 150
6/29/11 at 9:40am
That works! Thanks!
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post #11 of 150
6/29/11 at 10:38am
I did get a bit bored at the Hilfiger bits - it was like night and day how they handled their new releases. The Hilfiger people seemed to be all about the packaging and ridiculous airy-fairy 'concepts' like how they fused music with scent. The UK team seemed fairly inept and just got swept along by the whole marketing machine. I did laugh at them looking disappointed at how boring the patchouli plant looked for their launch party.

In the meantime, Wasser is very concerned about tweaking an old fragrance and hoping it measures up to the house's best.

I really liked the Guerlain marketing lady - she seemed to have a head on her shoulders. I totally missed the whole racism scandal last year and honestly felt bad for Wasser after the fallout. It wasn't his or anyone else's fault (other than Jean-Paul's - old geezers, what can you do?).
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post #12 of 150
6/29/11 at 10:49am
Interesting documentary indeed. Can't wait for the next part. Was intrigued that at one point the narrator said that currently many brands are using fewer and/or cheaper ingredients but that Guerlain didn't do this. Can anyone either support or disagree with this? It wasn't followed up at all. Let's hope it's true, of Guerlain at least.
Tommy Hilfiger was indeed boring, just like his clothes!
And Aurelien Guichard is so young!
Next week they say will focus on the perfumers, which will be extremely interesting.
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post #13 of 150
6/29/11 at 11:03am
I thought it a little sly they didn't mention Guerlain having to switch some ingredients over issues beyond their control (bans/availability). Maybe that issue will come up later on.
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post #14 of 150
6/29/11 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi Gardenia View Post

All those in the US- you can download Expat Shield for free ( takes minutes ) and then go to BBC FOUR's website .You will be able to watch it ! YAY and a huge hug for Mr. Redneck.

The links
http://expatshield.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Something_New/

Thank you so much, Mimi. That's very helpful of you.
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post #15 of 150
6/29/11 at 12:10pm
Well, as I posted on the other thread - it's entertaining and perhaps the "docu-soap" format is the most one can hope for these days from TV. It's infotainment rather than a "serious" documentary, which would be dwelling on Guerlain's transformation from independent perfume house to LVMH subsidiary and the consequences for it perfume policy. These things are only gently hinted at. And perhaps a more independet approach would have let Burr judge Loud to give an idea of how such a marketing machine is basically about selling hot air (or worse). Finally, dramatizing the story as a contest bewteen French Old World perfume culture and American big business is playing on popular clichés, while ignoring the global nature of mass market capitalism, a distortion I'm not happy about as a scholar of transatlantic perceptions. Still non-perfumistas will have learned one or two new things. I enjoyed the program, but one day I'd like to see a hard-nosed documentary o nthe perfume business.
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post #16 of 150
6/29/11 at 12:20pm
If anybody's interested, my views (and a few clips) are here...

http://thescenttrain.blogspot.com/20...-industry.html
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post #17 of 150
6/29/11 at 1:45pm
Well l just watched it, & the standout moments for me were the touching & very personal sentiments expressed by Thierry Wasser for his mentor, & the part where he opened the old books of formulae with such reverence & respect. l was very taken by his honesty & lack of arrogance.

The Hilfiger people were laughable; watching that scene with the pathetic little patchouli plant, was anyone else reminded of the stonehenge scene from Spinal Tap?? Hilarious!

Macy's looks like my idea of hell, & weren't those SA's in London just cringeworthy with their whooping & false jollity? A world away from Guerlain, for sure.

My favourite quote; "Chandler Burr has killed a few perfumes in his time, & knows where the bodies are buried." LOL!
l would have liked to see more of him, too (perhaps his other knee )
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post #18 of 150
6/29/11 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdog View Post

If anybody's interested, my views (and a few clips) are here...

http://thescenttrain.blogspot.com/20...-industry.html

A very witty review, silverdog! Although l must say l think JPG is just a silly old fool from a bygone era, rather than the nazi he has been made out to be. What a terribly sad way to end a career such as his, though.
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post #19 of 150
6/29/11 at 2:10pm
Great review. I'm not sure to what extent Lauder was just putting on a show for the BBC?! Or is this business really so pathetic and unprofessional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdog View Post

If anybody's interested, my views (and a few clips) are here...

http://thescenttrain.blogspot.com/20...-industry.html
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post #20 of 150
6/29/11 at 2:17pm
Agreed- that kind of Mayhem in Macy's is my hell.
Loved the Guerlain parts.
Chandler Burr with his packages , his shelves of bottles and yes, the knee sniffing - priceless.
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post #21 of 150
6/29/11 at 2:32pm
For me the programme laboured to make a very stereotypical (and false) idea of the culture clash of refined sophisticated French culture and brash philistine American commercialism.

The fact that BOTH of them are after the youth market for mercenary motives is sad and I don't think that any of the new wishy washy fruity floral pink "Youth" perfumes will ever be as good as the complex and old classics such as Shalimar.

The funny perfume critic stole the show!
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post #22 of 150
6/29/11 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi Gardenia View Post

OK, I got fed up with being frustrated and took a tip from the briliant Redneck Perfumisto - thanks sweets .

All those in the US- you can download Expat Shield for free ( takes minutes ) and then go to BBC FOUR's website .You will be able to watch it ! YAY and a huge hug for Mr. Redneck.

The links
http://expatshield.com/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Something_New/

Thanks, Mims! Honestly, I was thinking that our Mimi simply HAD to see Guerlain. If you had missed this, it would have been a terrible shame for BN, and Guerlain too. Really glad to hear that you got to see it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

Well, as I posted on the other thread - it's entertaining and perhaps the "docu-soap" format is the most one can hope for these days from TV. It's infotainment rather than a "serious" documentary, which would be dwelling on Guerlain's transformation from independent perfume house to LVMH subsidiary and the consequences for it perfume policy. These things are only gently hinted at. And perhaps a more independet approach would have let Burr judge Loud to give an idea of how such a marketing machine is basically about selling hot air (or worse). Finally, dramatizing the story as a contest bewteen French Old World perfume culture and American big business is playing on popular clichés, while ignoring the global nature of mass market capitalism, a distortion I'm not happy about as a scholar of transatlantic perceptions. Still non-perfumistas will have learned one or two new things. I enjoyed the program, but one day I'd like to see a hard-nosed documentary o nthe perfume business.

Great thoughts.

It was definitely a "pre-decidedly" shallow story - even if a beautiful one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

Well l just watched it, & the standout moments for me were the touching & very personal sentiments expressed by Thierry Wasser for his mentor, & the part where he opened the old books of formulae with such reverence & respect. l was very taken by his honesty & lack of arrogance.

Yes - he's great. I even enjoyed his very endearing French mannerisms - he reminds me greatly of a French coworker who always makes me smile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

The Hilfiger people were laughable; watching that scene with the pathetic little patchouli plant, was anyone else reminded of the stonehenge scene from Spinal Tap?? Hilarious!

LMAO YES!!! That was IT!!! OMG, I was wondering why I was laughing so hard.

I think they were expecting a cocaine bush or something!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

Macy's looks like my idea of hell, & weren't those SA's in London just cringeworthy with their whooping & false jollity? A world away from Guerlain, for sure.

Totally! Yes, New York is just one big movable disaster. And yet, so lovable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

My favourite quote; "Chandler Burr has killed a few perfumes in his time, & knows where the bodies are buried." LOL!
l would have liked to see more of him, too (perhaps his other knee )

Not only did he steal the show - I think the very premise of the program was half-stolen from his book. What a sport! He's as great on the tube as he is in writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelofthenorth View Post

For me the programme laboured to make a very stereotypical (and false) idea of the culture clash of refined sophisticated French culture and brash philistine American commercialism.

The fact that BOTH of them are after the youth market for mercenary motives is sad and I don't think that any of the new wishy washy fruity floral pink "Youth" perfumes will ever be as good as the complex and old classics such as Shalimar.

The funny perfume critic stole the show!

Agreed - the same forces were at work in both "houses" (good grief - how do you even call a 15-minute drive-by with Tommy Hilfiger a "house"? ) The fact that both are changing to suit the times is fascinating. They're just doing it in completely different ways.

I loved seeing Chandler Burr in Target at the perfume rack, speaking all kinds of unspeakable truths about luxury brands. I can imagine that every brand manager from New York to Tokyo was just shaking in their boots during that scene, thinking to themselves "C'mon.... hurry up.... get that guy out of there NOW!!!")
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post #23 of 150
6/29/11 at 11:58pm
The next episode looks like it might be the best. I was wondering why Chandler is he getting all those bottles when he doesn't do many frag reviews. And why is he smelling so close to the skin? All that does is give you a better idea of the notes. The "normal" frag experience is very different. I prefer ankle sampling because the way he's doing it, even at the area above the knee, there will be "drift" from the other frags.

And I like how the Loud commercial ends with the bottle exploding. LOL. Knowing how the process for that new Tommy frag went down, it's no surprise that so many of these recent ones are awful !
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post #24 of 150
6/30/11 at 1:09am
Thread Starter 
I'm enjoying reading all your comments. I'm glad I wasn't the only person who found the contrast between the USA and France too simplistic.

And I was wondering how long it would take someone to type the letters L V M H. They were conspicuous by their absence in the programme.
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post #25 of 150
6/30/11 at 3:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

The Hilfiger people were laughable; watching that scene with the pathetic little patchouli plant, was anyone else reminded of the stonehenge scene from Spinal Tap?? Hilarious!

Those "hilfiger" people are actually Estee Lauder's PR team and handle ALL the promotional work for "Aramis and designer fragrances"
PR people are a whole personality group unto themselves...If a client has an idea (ie they want a patchouli plant) then they have to do everything to make it happen! i'm sure they probably thought it was kinda bonkers too!
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post #26 of 150
6/30/11 at 4:35am
"For this Tommy, the war has only just begun".

Priceless.
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post #27 of 150
6/30/11 at 6:56am
Great reviews, thanks silverdog and the_good_life!
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post #28 of 150
6/30/11 at 11:05am
I'm a Burr fan already: http://www.chandlerburr.com/newsite/page0/media.htm for some vids

edit: proper poptech link: http://poptech.org/popcasts/chandler_burr__poptech_2008 [great!]
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post #29 of 150
6/30/11 at 8:25pm
This was such an enjoyable watch. I especially loved the intimate tour following Monsieur Guerlain through his estate and the candid thoughts of Monsieur Wasser through his somewhat painful and sentimental merge as head of Guerlain. This man knows how to BLEND, in more ways than one! I was really taken by Thierry Wasser’s respect for the old man, despite his recent feeble faux pa, and I admire the finesse and grace with which he is handling the monumental responsibility of intertwining the new with the traditional without prostituting the quality or the noble name of the Guerlain brand.

The gem of the show was getting a glimpse of the actual perfume journals of the historic Guerlain family perfumers; it was like seeing the Holy Grail, for crying out loud!

Chandler Burr is just a joy to watch! He was charming and funny and unassuming. Tommy Hilfiger on the other hand, was like a cartooned cliché, strolling in late to such an important meeting, being followed by a bevy of fawning assistants, waving his jaded, pompous approval at the concept team and leaving after 15 minutes. I’m sure he’s not as arrogant and disinterested as he appeared in this documentary, as it did him no justice, in my opinion.

Can’t wait for the next part!
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post #30 of 150
7/1/11 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teardrop View Post

The Hilfiger people were laughable; watching that scene with the pathetic little patchouli plant, was anyone else reminded of the stonehenge scene from Spinal Tap?? Hilarious!

Agreed, what a bunch of imbeciles. I love how the doco maker asked how much Loud they they sold:

Presenter: "But is it millions or hundreds of thousands or?"

Sales: "we couldn't comment"

Presenter: "pause so, it's probably not either of those then"


Like the rest of you, I really enjoyed the Guerlain parts. Very interesting. The info was light but the footage was a bit of frag porn.
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post #31 of 150
7/1/11 at 2:31am
I've been having troubles getting the IP software to work in France to provide me a British IP to enjoy this video. Would someone be able to record it while it is streamed? Thanks.
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post #32 of 150
7/1/11 at 4:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymphaea View Post

Tommy Hilfiger on the other hand, was like a cartooned cliché, strolling in late to such an important meeting, being followed by a bevy of fawning assistants, waving his jaded, pompous approval at the concept team and leaving after 15 minutes.

Spot on. Another example of La La Land. These people take themselves sooo seriously. It's hardly as though they are brain surgeons.
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post #33 of 150
7/1/11 at 7:28am
I enjoyed the Guerlain interviews, with their insider views. And it was nice seeing the boutique, which I've never visited. And the scent organ, the old journals..... I'd give plenty to have a closer look at those!

But I just chortled at the Hilfiger sections. Honestly, is it any wonder Loud is now in the bargain bin at Debenhams? It's just so..... blah! And no wonder. Shallow in, shallow out. Want a rock-n-roll scent? Wear something with plenty of cumin, booze notes and tobacco. Because this fruity floral bore-fest has all the rock-n-roll chutzpah of Tiny Tim.

I would have liked to see Chandler give his opinion of both Loud, and the newer Guerlains, Insolence and Idylle, versus the classics. And perhaps a word or two about the Guerlain reformulations, such as Mitsouko, would have been interesting.
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post #34 of 150
7/1/11 at 8:18am
I enjoyed the entire episode, and was a bit surprised at the attitude change of Thierry Wasser toward Guerlain.
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post #35 of 150
7/1/11 at 8:45pm
I was able to download the episode on Graboid and watched with fascination....

My favorite part was the mom taking her daughter to buy her first real scent at Guerlain. Such a lovely rite of passage...wish I had experienced that.

The old journals and notes were just riveting. I was also surprised to see in the footage that there were so many boycotting Guerlain that the store was obviously closed down during the time period. Very sad end of a career for the elder man. How hard for Mr wasser- I thought he has must have forced himself to put an internal wall up and separate his personal and professional relationships with JPG.

Chandler Burr is such a cutie pie- not pretentious at all- sniffing his knees and letting his bald spots show- only a real fume head bends over and does that without hesitiation.

Ah Macy's off Herald Square! That REAL New York experience. Everyone should go through it at least once....

As for the concept of LOUD... Doomed from the start and not even original- isn't Givenchy Play got an ipod theme?

Well bring on the next episode, I say....
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post #36 of 150
7/1/11 at 9:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by knit at nite View Post

I was able to download the episode on Graboid and watched with fascination....

My favorite part was the mom taking her daughter to buy her first real scent at Guerlain. Such a lovely rite of passage...wish I had experienced that.

The old journals and notes were just riveting. I was also surprised to see in the footage that there were so many boycotting Guerlain that the store was obviously closed down during the time period. Very sad end of a career for the elder man. How hard for Mr wasser- I thought he has must have forced himself to put an internal wall up and separate his personal and professional relationships with JPG.

Chandler Burr is such a cutie pie- not pretentious at all- sniffing his knees and letting his bald spots show- only a real fume head bends over and does that without hesitation.

Ah Macy's off Herald Square! That REAL New York experience. Everyone should go through it at least once....

As for the concept of LOUD... Doomed from the start and not even original- isn't Givenchy Play got an ipod theme?

Well bring on the next episode, I say....

Agree with everything! YES - the old books - O.M.G. So cool. I loved how Wasser was almost reverent about them. You know Guerlain is in good hands.

I like to think that JPG's career ended with Arsène Lupin Dandy and Le Voyou!

I do hope that Wasser remains his friend and confidant, and that they can be positive influences on each other.
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post #37 of 150
7/1/11 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by knit at nite View Post

Ah Macy's off Herald Square! That REAL New York experience. Everyone should go through it at least once....

Back in the summer of 1974 I had to go buy some dark blue work pants and went downtown to Macy's since at that time it was the Walmart of NYC. I remember going up to the men's department, and they actually had a pants department that was an open acre of racks filled with men's pants. All plaid. There were no customers, and I don't know who they thought were going to buy them. Maybe Joe Franklin?
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post #38 of 150
7/1/11 at 11:47pm
LOL! Just the thought of all those plaid pants is creepy....

1974 was a turning point for me as it was the year I decided I never wanted to go through another New England winter and hi-tailed my butt to CA.
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post #39 of 150
7/2/11 at 5:36am
Seeing the journals handwritten in fountain pen was like seeing the holy grail of perfume. I just held my breathe then sort of jumped up and frightened the cats.

I was at the Guerlain counter in Debenams Belfast this morning and sort of chatted with the sa. She did say she had been to both Guerlain factories perfume and makeup. But did not seem willing to chat further. I did buy some half price makeup though.
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post #40 of 150
7/2/11 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scentophile View Post

I've been having troubles getting the IP software to work in France to provide me a British IP to enjoy this video. Would someone be able to record it while it is streamed? Thanks.

Tried to pm you but your inbox is full.
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post #41 of 150
7/2/11 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by donna255 View Post

I was at the Guerlain counter in Debenams Belfast this morning and sort of chatted with the sa. She did say she had been to both Guerlain factories perfume and makeup. But did not seem willing to chat further. I did buy some half price makeup though.

That's a shame, the one in john lewis Edinburgh was lovely (she had apparently been trained by roja dove) and was exceedingly knowledgable, passionate about the brand and very friendly. the chap in Jenners (House of fraser now sadly) was brilliant as well and he knew the company inside out, as well as every single fragrance and which notes were in them. Brilliant - THAT'S what i expect from an SA.

Notably, in both stores, the Guerlain counters have been relocated from a prime position at the door to being sandwidged between or hidden round the corner from the big houses of Chanel, YSL, Dior. Sad.

What made me laugh about the LP design for 18-27 year olds was the fact most of them have probably never seen or used an LP! Givenchy had the right of it with an ipod - but a piece of vinyl? Shows how little they know about the target market.

Had the pleasure of trialling the female LOUD in superdrug. it was shoved in the corner at the very back of the fragrances. very telling. Anyway it's okay - it's almost a carbon copy of Valentino's Rock and Rose (which came and went as quickly) and their marketing was all around a "rock" rose scent. So 10/10 Hilfiger/Lauder for imagination! NOT
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post #42 of 150
7/2/11 at 11:13am
I also enjoyed the Guerlain section with it's insight into the home and workplace
of J-P Guerlain and his dogs. Its understated grandeur made the New York sales
pitch for Loud look tacky in comparison and the ineptitude of those girls in the London
office trying to source a patchouli plant was risible.

I wasn't that taken with M. Wasser personally - he seemed rather pompous and frankly somewhat odd!
He praised his "special" relationship with the old man in one breath and then tried to distance himself from
him in the other.

I am looking forward to the next episode.
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post #43 of 150
7/2/11 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by queen_sheba View Post

Had the pleasure of trialling the female LOUD in superdrug. it was shoved in the corner at the very back of the fragrances. very telling. Anyway it's okay - it's almost a carbon copy of Valentino's Rock and Rose (which came and went as quickly) and their marketing was all around a "rock" rose scent. So 10/10 Hilfiger/Lauder for imagination! NOT

At least Vera Wang Rock Princess had some thought. Nice mineral accord and a faux granite bottle - and the scent seemed wearable by grlz who might actually get Rock-n-Roll and do WTF at the other Princess flankers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kewart View Post

I wasn't that taken with M. Wasser personally - he seemed rather pompous and frankly somewhat odd!
He praised his "special" relationship with the old man in one breath and then tried to distance himself from him in the other.

Wasser's comments after JPG's stumble seemed so scripted, they could have put a sticker on his forehead - "Please direct all inquiries about Jean Paul Guerlain's troubling comments to LVMH Public Relations...." I'm sure it was quite painful for Wasser to deny his mentor, but I would bet real money that he was in conference with a roomful of lawyers and PR folks at some point. Guerlain wasn't about to lose two perfumers in one incident.
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post #44 of 150
7/2/11 at 1:37pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Something_New/

Gurelain compared with Hilfiger
Smelly shops are like war zones - the nose is assassinated
New York is the biggest smell seller
Bullshit (some people call is 'marketing') can be very expensive but basically it's the same all the world over.
Chandler Burr is a stink critic (perfume is the best way to monetize a brand).
Hilfiger seems to not be too happy with the bottle. They don't seem to have changed it in production. They said they might change the pink but they don't seem to have.
The French are more elegant, sexy. The New Yorkers are slobs.
Why would you smell someone else wearing a perfume to try to understand the perfume? People are different but the same.

I am not sure what happened to Thierry Wasser's 'tinkering' with a new Shalimar. Shalimar Parfum Initial seems to have been released.
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post #45 of 150
7/2/11 at 1:46pm
Loved both the BBC piece and the Chandler Burr piece. I now can't get rid of the BBC pop ups.
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post #46 of 150
7/2/11 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuigi View Post

Loved both the BBC piece and the Chandler Burr piece. I now can't get rid of the BBC pop ups.

I recommend uninstalling the expat toolbar and all related software (in your control panel) until next time. It's a fairly aggressive toolbar. The main problem is that it's a fairly greedy VPN when it's on, and it's still playing big sister even when it's off. The whole effect is to slow things down too much. It would be preferable if it ONLY VPNed the Britain-bound traffic, and let other stuff flow unimpeded. Alas, it really slows down ALL traffic - except BBC.
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post #47 of 150
7/2/11 at 2:11pm
Thanks Mims! Worked perfectly fine for me and I finally got around to watch it tonight. I enjoyed the Guerlain bit a lot, although, let's face it, quite romanticised. Reformulation has happened and is currently happening in the name of money and IFRA (remember the 2010 deadline, right?). I like to think Wasser said with a kind of undertone that he has to create something new to meet today's (mass) taste, otherwise Guerlain will end up as a museum piece. I did not care about the LOUD thing, apart from seeing Tommy Hilfiger at work. We are surrounded by crap and there is no escape. Patchouli was meant to repel moths. I find it notoriously hard to incorporate well in perfumery.
I do look foward to the next bit(s).
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post #48 of 150
7/3/11 at 12:30am
Thread Starter 
I've posted a brief review of Episode 1 on my blog. If you're interested in reading it, please click here. Thanks very much.
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post #49 of 150
7/4/11 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by queen_sheba View Post

What made me laugh about the LP design for 18-27 year olds was the fact most of them have probably never seen or used an LP! Givenchy had the right of it with an ipod - but a piece of vinyl? Shows how little they know about the target market.

Yes, that was utterly ridiculous. I think they were maybe going for DJ culture, but that doesn't really mesh with the whole 'rock' thing very well at all. Even just referencing DJ culture itself is too broad a brush for marketing.

I'm not sure even djs use vinyl any more.
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post #50 of 150
7/4/11 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post

Even just referencing DJ culture itself is too broad a brush for marketing.

Yes, but it's what "young people" are into.....
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post #51 of 150
7/4/11 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by laph View Post

Yes, but it's what "young people" are into.....

Indeed. Another cringe-worthy moment, hearing the more mature PR lady from Hilfiger lecture the young reporters about 'youth culture': "Music is everything to them, they never go anywhere without their ipods...".
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post #52 of 150
7/4/11 at 5:39am
Finally got to see Episode I, many thanks to CX827!

Nicely shot, music worked well (especially the French sequences) and good narrative flow but basically when I watch again I'll do it the way I read Burr's book - just skip the NY stuff. I have sat in way too many PR and Ad industry / client presentations where the dynamic shifts from the unspoken 'we're all terrified' to the gushy 'we love it', 'it's fantastic' stuff to take this very seriously. Rock 'n Roll, indeed. Mind you the front end of the commercial music industry probably isn't that different these days.

Thierry Wasser showed true humility and class - sad that the handover was under a shadow, but kudos to the director for including it and handling it with a degree of sensitivity. Look forward to the rest.

Verdict - GREAT! Roll on eps. II & III.
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post #53 of 150
7/4/11 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post

Indeed. Another cringe-worthy moment, hearing the more mature PR lady from Hilfiger lecture the young reporters about 'youth culture': "Music is everything to them, they never go anywhere without their ipods...".

LOL. Yes that was good. I remember thinking that they probably wished they could have been listening to their iPods instead.

The trouble is, Givenchy got there first, and actually used an iPod-like form factor. AND an actual music industry icon. We were watching the emergence of Play fairly closely on the men's side here. It looked almost dopey during the build-up and even at launch time, but the concept seems to have worked, and made some money. Using Timberlake in suave mode was probably a very smart move in making the Play franchise stick.

Reflecting on the whole music thing, it makes the entire Hilfiger effort look very "me too". I would have loved to have seen the REAL Hilfiger meetings where they likely talked bluntly about trying to get in on Play's action.
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post #54 of 150
7/4/11 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post

I'm not sure even djs use vinyl any more.

Many of the masters still use vinyl. This for instance can't be done without vinyl: Jeff Mills - Purpose Maker Mix 1/5
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post #55 of 150
7/4/11 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylob View Post

Many of the masters still use vinyl. This for instance can't be done without vinyl: Jeff Mills - Purpose Maker Mix 1/5

*off topic*
I got my (vinyl) copy of 'The Bells' signed by him many moons ago
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post #56 of 150
7/4/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post

*off topic*
I got my (vinyl) copy of 'The Bells' signed by him many moons ago

Sweeet!! A classic: one of his bests...
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post #57 of 150
7/4/11 at 7:05pm
If you have trouble watching it I was able to get a torrent of it off The Box website to download it.
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post #58 of 150
7/4/11 at 10:50pm
Thread Starter 
The BBC FOUR website has just been updated with info about NEXT WEEK's episode; click here to be redirected to it. It looks like it'll be about Grossmith, which should be very interesting.
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post #59 of 150
7/5/11 at 2:20am
Oooooh, "perfumers peering into bathroom cabinets"? Cool, l love a bit of nosing around!
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post #60 of 150
7/5/11 at 2:46am
Just to remind everyone (as if it were needed) that Episode 4 of Perfume is on BBC 4 tonight.
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