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Dad Angry Over Missing Cologne Gets Son Killed  

post #1 of 20
6/30/11 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...html?r=topnews

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post #2 of 20
6/30/11 at 8:27am
Appalling!
post #3 of 20
6/30/11 at 10:53am
What a strange story. Was the father on drugs of some sort?
This may be OT, but as I am reading the comments on the article, there are lots about racism. People are calling eachother racists and worse. This is difficult to comprehend for a European: why do Americans feel that race is such an important issue?
You get the same "racism" comments on almost every IMDb board.
Last time I was in the USA, I saw a guy with a T-shirt with the text "Black is beautiful". I asked my companion what he would think about me wearing a T-shirt with "White is beautiful" on it.
He said that I would be looked upon as a neo-nazi or worse.
Why would I be a racist, but not the black guy?
I am not an idiot, but I really find the race question silly and somehow too important in these cases.
post #4 of 20
6/30/11 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame du Barry View Post

This is difficult to comprehend for a European

You mean, like the Scots and the Irish feel about the English?

Or the Norwegians about the Danish?

Or the Poles about the Germans?

Or Germans about 'guest workers'?

Ever looked carefully at the Eurovision voting?

Racism isn't about colour.
post #5 of 20
6/30/11 at 5:09pm
The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as the "belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" and the expression of such prejudice, while the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines it as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and alternatively that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.
The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."
post #6 of 20
6/30/11 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame du Barry View Post

What a strange story. Was the father on drugs of some sort?
This may be OT, but as I am reading the comments on the article, there are lots about racism. People are calling eachother racists and worse. This is difficult to comprehend for a European: why do Americans feel that race is such an important issue?
You get the same "racism" comments on almost every IMDb board.
Last time I was in the USA, I saw a guy with a T-shirt with the text "Black is beautiful". I asked my companion what he would think about me wearing a T-shirt with "White is beautiful" on it.
He said that I would be looked upon as a neo-nazi or worse.
Why would I be a racist, but not the black guy?
I am not an idiot, but I really find the race question silly and somehow too important in these cases.

Madame, I admire your sensibilities and intelligence more than about anyone's on these boards, but I feel impelled to reply. As a non-Anglo, who lived in Germany with a white German mother until I was sixteen, I hardly perceive the race issue as hard for Europeans to understand. The animosity I have witnessed toward the Turkish and Pakistani labor forces in England as well as in Germany, the Skinhead and Neo-Nazi activity I witnessed in Berlin, not mention enduring tensions between Germans and Jews... I won't dive further....
post #7 of 20
6/30/11 at 8:19pm
Well this off topic thread seems to have gone a bit off topic....

Re the article - what a sad state of affairs.
post #8 of 20
7/1/11 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame du Barry View Post

Why would I be a racist, but not the black guy?

Because we live in a world of perverted morality, where once faced tragedies give people the right to treat others the way they or their parents were once treated. And of course it's not only about the race, but also also nationally, sex, sexuality, religion, social status and practically any other "label" one can think of.
post #9 of 20
7/1/11 at 3:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillaire View Post

Madame, I admire your sensibilities and intelligence more than about anyone's on these boards, but I feel impelled to reply. As a non-Anglo, who lived in Germany with a white German mother until I was sixteen, I hardly perceive the race issue as hard for Europeans to understand. The animosity I have witnessed toward the Turkish and Pakistani labor forces in England as well as in Germany, the Skinhead and Neo-Nazi activity I witnessed in Berlin, not mention enduring tensions between Germans and Jews... I won't dive further....

I am sorry to hear that. Of course I read the newspapers, watch the news and know about those racially similar, if not the same, people and some of the things they do, or would like to do, to eachother.
For G_d's sake: if neighbours can't get along, why should countries on the same continent?
You overestimate my IQ. I do not know nearly enough of American history, and the whole black-white racial issues.
I do know about the slavery, but not so much about what happened to the black people after that. I do understand that anyone who has been enslaved by a group of people would be bitter, angry etc.
But why is all that hate between blacks and whites still going on? That was my original question.
I threw it out there, hoping for an explanation - and all I seem to get is more of the same which I can read on any other forum.
Jews are not another race. The Jews I have known and know are from all over the world, and what makes them Jewish is their religion.
I am not expecting everyone everywhere to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya", but it would be nice if we did. Minus the Kumbaya.
post #10 of 20
7/1/11 at 4:20am
As much as I've been a part of it; and as much as this has been all very civilised, however the Code of Conduct

http://www.basenotes.net/content/92-...ct-for-Members does not allow discussion of 'hot topics' which this surely is.

And I respect Madame's abilty to read a dictionary - I maintain my position that race isn't about colour - and that any European is surely familiar with racism.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...tMxnX&result=2
post #11 of 20
7/1/11 at 4:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame du Barry View Post

Last time I was in the USA, I saw a guy with a T-shirt with the text "Black is beautiful". I asked my companion what he would think about me wearing a T-shirt with "White is beautiful" on it.
He said that I would be looked upon as a neo-nazi or worse.
Why would I be a racist, but not the black guy?

Short answer: because blacks in the US had to struggle to affirm their sense of worth against a dominant ideology that consistently preached their inferiority, stupidity, ugliness etc. while positing "whiteness" as the unquestioned norm (and we must understand that these concepts are sociological, not biological realities - biologically, the concept of race has been questionable sind Darwin and has been utterly refuted by modern genetics). Within this context "white is beautiful" would be a redundant, pointless statement. Since white supremacists now consider themselves persecuted victims of "multiculturalism" they have however adopted (how ironic) rethorical strategies from the civil rights movement and thus wearing such a T-Shirt would indeed associate you with the KKK, Aryan Nation etc. I'd settle for "human is beautiful" . Peace!
post #12 of 20
7/1/11 at 5:23am
On the subject of t-shirts, I am reminded of a inter-racial couple I saw walking in a square not that long ago. He (of colour) was wearing a t-shirt which proclaimed: "I know she's white, but I love her anyway". Fantastic.
post #13 of 20
7/1/11 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post

As much as I've been a part of it; and as much as this has been all very civilised, however the Code of Conduct

http://www.basenotes.net/content/92-...ct-for-Members does not allow discussion of 'hot topics' which this surely is.

And I respect Madame's abilty to read a dictionary - I maintain my position that race isn't about colour - and that any European is surely familiar with racism.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...tMxnX&result=2

Then I apologize. I did not know that we can't speak of this subject.
I am going to the library to borrow some books on this one.
Perhaps the mods can delete the posts re the question of racism? Thank you.
post #14 of 20
7/1/11 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

I'd settle for "human is beautiful"...

post #15 of 20
7/1/11 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post

Or the Norwegians about the Danish?

Hey! There are no bad feelings between Norwegians and Danes.
post #16 of 20
7/1/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

Short answer: because blacks in the US had to struggle to affirm their sense of worth against a dominant ideology that consistently preached their inferiority, stupidity, ugliness etc. while positing "whiteness" as the unquestioned norm (and we must understand that these concepts are sociological, not biological realities - biologically, the concept of race has been questionable sind Darwin and has been utterly refuted by modern genetics). Within this context "white is beautiful" would be a redundant, pointless statement. Since white supremacists now consider themselves persecuted victims of "multiculturalism" they have however adopted (how ironic) rethorical strategies from the civil rights movement and thus wearing such a T-Shirt would indeed associate you with the KKK, Aryan Nation etc. I'd settle for "human is beautiful" . Peace!

It's still excuses though. I believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities. Period, end of sentence. A double standard is still a double standard any way you slice it. The strongest indicator that one is in doubt of another's equality is when one is always making excuses for them. It's the soft bigotry of low expectatations, as they say.

To truly follow the teachings of MLK-- and to display true colorblindess-- is to not make excuses or demand any less from anyone. MLK would be rolling in his grave at how nobody seems to have gotten the audacious truth of his message. He wanted to reset the clock of humanity; they chose to simply move the pendulum.

Either black/white is beautiful shirts are all OK, or they're not.
post #17 of 20
7/1/11 at 12:00pm
You don't erase nearly 400 years of history over night, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post

It's still excuses though. I believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities. Period, end of sentence. A double standard is still a double standard any way you slice it. The strongest indicator that one is in doubt of another's equality is when one is always making excuses for them. It's the soft bigotry of low expectatations, as they say.

To truly follow the teachings of MLK-- and to display true colorblindess-- is to not make excuses or demand any less from anyone. MLK would be rolling in his grave at how nobody seems to have gotten the audacious truth of his message. He wanted to reset the clock of humanity; they chose to simply move the pendulum.

Either black/white is beautiful shirts are all OK, or they're not.
post #18 of 20
7/1/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

You don't erase nearly 400 years of history over night, my friend.

Regardless, that's still an excuse.
post #19 of 20
7/1/11 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post

On the subject of t-shirts, I am reminded of a inter-racial couple I saw walking in a square not that long ago. He (of colour) was wearing a t-shirt which proclaimed: "I know she's white, but I love her anyway". Fantastic.

Wow. First you lecture me on how wrong I am in talking about the issue of racism, and then you yourself post something incredibly racist which you laugh at. Are you proud over your double standard?
Never mind...I am off.
post #20 of 20
7/1/11 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame du Barry View Post

Wow. First you lecture me on how wrong I am in talking about the issue of racism, and then you yourself post something incredibly racist which you laugh at. Are you proud over your double standard?
Never mind...I am off.

Hmm - I cannot resist the urge to defend myself.

1) I haven't lectured anyone. I merely pointed out that this thread (in discussing a 'hot topic') is likely to be closed by the moderators.

2) I posted something racist? I laughed? I am misinterpreted. As someone who works with and for the Indigenous people of my country I am offended.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/indigen...s/default.aspx
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Basenotes › Basenotes Forums › General Discussion › Off topic › Dad Angry Over Missing Cologne Gets Son Killed