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Hammam Bouquet Extract

post #1 of 21
9/29/11 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
I am working on a project to recreate a version of vintage Hammam Bouquet Extract with an undisclosed perfumer. I was wondering if anyone had ever tried the old extract version of Hammam Bouquet and could comment on their experience. I plan to use high quality and natural ingredients where available.

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post #2 of 21
9/29/11 at 4:22pm
Is this at all similar to their Beliheim (sp?) Bouquet?
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post #3 of 21
9/29/11 at 5:02pm
Best wishes, Bokaba, on this endeavour!

Where did you find this vintage bottle, and how old do you reckon it is?
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post #4 of 21
9/29/11 at 7:27pm
Let us know how it turns out.
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post #5 of 21
9/29/11 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
That's not my bottle (wish it were). As far as I know it's the only known picture of the stuff. I'd suspect it is from the 1960s when Penhaligons only had a few employees even though it is still a very small company.

So far I am planning to use:

Bergamot, English Lavender
Bulgarian Rose Absolute/Otto, Jasmine Absolute, Orris, Cedar, Coumarin
Mysore Sandalwood, Oakmoss, Amber, Civet, Musk

Some of the ingredients are banned by IFRA and that's how I like it. IFRA should go back to where it came from. Once the scent is complete, I will announce it.
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post #6 of 21
9/29/11 at 11:27pm
As I understand it, there is talk of Penhaligon's releasing an extrait of Hammam in the future again - well there WAS talk of it, as to whether they actually go ahead and do it is another matter!

Good luck in your endevours!
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post #7 of 21
9/30/11 at 1:37am
What are your obstacles in recreating it?
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post #8 of 21
9/30/11 at 1:57am
Is this a pure perfume (extrait) or an EDT? The label says "Eau de toilet".
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post #9 of 21
9/30/11 at 5:49am
oh, this is a juicy one. what is your hope with this, in terms of getting more from the current HB?

also, I sort of half wonder if the use of the word "extract" here is just nomenclature; is it just a different way of saying a floral distillation, and a word that was trimmed from subsequent labelling? as we use the terms today, extract and eau de toilet (sp) are two different things from a chemistry perspective, I thought.

whatever the case may be, as a Hammam fan, I'm curious to know what becomes of your project.
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post #10 of 21
9/30/11 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 
My goals with this project are to recreate Hammam Bouquet as close as possible to what it would have been like in the 19th Century. Over the years, the formula has been changed and frankly cheapened. Of course, certain materials are not available anymore, but I will do my best to get as close as possible. The current HB is good, but it doesn't have enough good quality rose ottos and is chock full of strident synthetics I wish to modify. I've read some snippets of conversions about vintage HB. It's a lt of hearsay, but a couple members (no longer active) had mentioned that the vintage was more animalic and had top notch rose ottos.
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post #11 of 21
9/30/11 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokaba View Post

Some of the ingredients are banned by IFRA and that's how I like it. IFRA should go back to where it came from. Once the scent is complete, I will announce it.

That's the spirit! Vive la Résistance!
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post #12 of 21
9/30/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

That's the spirit! Vive la Résistance!

Yes indeed and I for one would just love to try the result .
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post #13 of 21
9/30/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

That's the spirit! Vive la Résistance!

Yes indeed and I for one would just love to try the result .
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post #14 of 21
9/30/11 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post

That's the spirit! Vive la Résistance!

I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokaba View Post

My goals with this project are to recreate Hammam Bouquet as close as possible to what it would have been like in the 19th Century. Over the years, the formula has been changed and frankly cheapened. Of course, certain materials are not available anymore, but I will do my best to get as close as possible. The current HB is good, but it doesn't have enough good quality rose ottos and is chock full of strident synthetics I wish to modify. I've read some snippets of conversions about vintage HB. It's a lt of hearsay, but a couple members (no longer active) had mentioned that the vintage was more animalic and had top notch rose ottos.

Hang tight, Bokaba. Someone has to stand firm for the classics. Sometimes modernism, ironically, means taking a step backwards, with horrid results.
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post #15 of 21
9/30/11 at 8:42pm
Thread Starter 
The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

What are your obstacles in recreating it?
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post #16 of 21
10/1/11 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokaba View Post

The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Not having smelled it is not an obstacle IMO. If anything, it could be a blessing as you are not biased or swayed to re-creating it the way the Penhaligon's perfumers decided to create it.

Knowing where to compromise is the key .
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post #17 of 21
10/1/11 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokaba View Post

The main obstacle I believe is not ever having smelled the vintage version. I am relying on my research on Victorian and Edwardian period perfumery and ingredients and less than thorough second hand accounts from people who knew someone who smelled it. The other challenge is that some of the ingredients are either not available or ethical for use today (I don't personally have a problem with animal ingredients, but a lot of perfumers and firms do). I also don't want to produce a scent costing $1,000/oz because that wouldn't be any fun and I couldn't afford it myself--what a blunder to design a perfume and then not be able to afford it! We will have to compromise on some ingredients, but that is the nature of the beast.

Are your sources strictly English? Or do you mean Victorian and Edwardian time frame?

There is a lot of research on French perfumery from the 19th century. I started with "The Foul and the Fragrant," which examines the history of French perfumery.
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post #18 of 21
10/1/11 at 4:47pm
Thread Starter 
I am researching mainly the Victorian-Edwardian time frame with an emphasis on English chemists (Dukes of Pall Mall, DR Harris, Floris, Penhaligons, etc) during that time period. I'm reading Scents of Yesterday which examines recipes, ingredients, techniques, and tastes in British, French, and German perfumery during the 18th-early 20th C.
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post #19 of 21
10/1/11 at 7:50pm
You might also wish to read "Manuel des Dames," by Madame Elizabeth Celnart, published in 1833. It is in French and contains recipes for homemade fragrances, as well as homemade toiletries. Read the section, "Parfums pour la toilette." As you know, scents in this era were unisex.

Here is a link to the 1827 edition, the same year, I might add, that a certain dandy was married.

http://books.google.com.pe/books?id=...page&q&f=false
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post #20 of 21
10/26/11 at 6:13pm
Please keep up us to date on this fantastic endeavor
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post #21 of 21
12/3/12 at 11:34am
Just came across this thread.

How is the project progressing?

I wore the extract years ago when Sheila Pickles owned the company.. It was just an amazing fragrance, so rich and powerful with no hint of powderiness at all.

I have an old catalogue of theirs, a scratch and sniff one, going back to 1995 and the extract was priced at £34 for 15ml. Quite a bargain.
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