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What does Frankincense smell like?

post #1 of 33
12/22/11 at 7:57am
Thread Starter 
Asking "What does Frankincense smell like?" might seem strange to ask from
someone who has burned tons of frankincense. Formerly all I could say was
"Frankincense smells like frankincense" which describes absolutely nothing to
someone who has never experienced the aroma.

After pondering on the aroma I now say "Frankincense has a smell of pine and
lemon combined with a dry woody aroma." Would others on this forum agree with
me? What do you think frankincense smells like?

One reason I ask this question is this: I have an incense formula in which I
want the frankincense to be the dominant scent. However, no matter how much
frankincense I add to the formula the other scents will not allow frankincense to be the dominant fragrance (I cannot reduce or eliminate the other scents for certain reasons other than fragrance for which they are included in the formula).

I have tried adding frankincense CO2 oil and this helps, but it still is not
strong enough. Also the oil seems to evaporate after some time passes.

I have thought of trying a franknincense absolute. Do you think that would work?

Does such a thing as "Concentrated frankincense" or "Concentrated frankincense
oil" exist?

By asking what frankincense smells like I am looking for the strongest notes in
frankincense with the hope that I could accentuate it with a stronger resin. For
example : If frankincense smells like pine and lemon, then I could add pine and
lemon. Both of these scents are much stronger than frankincense and could boost
the frankincense notes in the formula.

In conclusion:

(1)What do you think frankincense smells like?

(2)How can I magnify the scent of frankincense in my formula?

Thanks
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post #2 of 33
12/22/11 at 12:48pm
You’ll get some help in understanding what else frankincense smells like by looking at the single note thread on it.

I’ve also given some thoughts on how you can go about creating a ‘burning frankincense’ scent in a perfume in this thread, which started out looking at whether it is present in Aventus.
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post #3 of 33
12/22/11 at 1:18pm
for the pine side, i would suggest cypress oil. also, i have found during some experiments that ionone beta can bolster the odor of olibanum. you could definitely try the absolute, in my opinion it smells more like the tears than the essential oil i have does.
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post #4 of 33
12/23/11 at 6:43am
In my opinion, for frankincense counts the older the better ! I keep a ten years old frankincense resinoid, that smells like fresh lit church incense. Resinoids smell much better to me, more resinous like essential oils. The eo´s smell more fresh and have that piney lemon smell. I was so lucky to get some old frankincense resinoid from charabot. It is thick, sticky, very dark and smells like damp cellar, old church, earthy, piney, coniferous, old wood ( Oud ? ) and pepper. There is also something sweet in it, like dark chocolate and caramel. If you want to use aromachemicals, try oxyoctaline and ambrocenide or both in combination with frankincense resinoid.

Conni
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post #5 of 33
12/23/11 at 12:35pm
Agreed, I’ve said something in the the single note thread to that effect: my tiny remaining quantity of 30 year old olibanum essential oil is precious and very, very different from the fresh stuff: far more like the burning tears.

Interesting choices on the aromachemical front too - dihydromyrcenol also works as an enhancer, but has become so ubiquitous that perhaps it’s no-longer a good idea. To lengthen the dark wood/amber element I like norlimbanol: amazing stuff for longevity.
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post #6 of 33
12/23/11 at 4:15pm
It was on this board that someone said frankincense and rosemary reinforce each other, and I've experimented with that a little. Also I have a fragrance oil called "copal" from Save on Scents which smells much more like frankincense than their frankincense F.O. I have never smelled real copal resin but maybe that's something to incorporate in your incense?
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post #7 of 33
12/23/11 at 5:03pm
The use of rosemary makes perfect sense: they have a lot of elements in common and work well together in fine fragrance.

Copal is one of those terms with a fuzzy meaning - it is sometimes used generically to mean ‘a hard tree resin’ in which case it could include olibanum, myrrh and others - however usually it means the resin, often incorrectly called a gum, of South American origin and used in traditional ceremonials in some early SA cultures. It is also sometimes called ‘young amber’.

Even then, to my knowlege it can refer to several species of tree including Copariflora officinalis, Copaifera guibourthiana and Bureseru microphylla. I’ve not come across essential oil made from any of these but it should work in a similar way to steam distilling olibanum and yield a similar, but different oil. I imagine the resin could also be tinctured, though as I understand it is a sub-fossil, that might involve solvents other than just alcohol, such as acetone.

Long story short, it should work very well in this context. Looking at the Save on Scents website however, what they are offering is a fragrance oil - so it will be a synthetic imitation, which is fine except that you don’t know exactly what’s gone into it and how that might combine with your other ingredients.
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post #8 of 33
12/27/11 at 6:46am
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much Chris and everyone else. Wow! What a plethora of information. This is very much appreciated. I will experiment with some of these suggestions.
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post #9 of 33
1/27/12 at 8:35am
Mmmmmmmm frankincense - so so wonderful. You could make it smell warmer by adding a tiny amount of labdanum I suppose. A good frankincanse smells sweet, honey-like,woody, with some lemon top notes.
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post #10 of 33
4/9/13 at 12:50am
it is posibul to ass some frankincense in rady made perfume oil so that my perfume last long.
like........i have have a perfume oil of blue d chanel its a good oil but not very last longer
does frankincense make it beater?
as i have been told that its a good fixative (espashly for citrus perfumes)
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post #11 of 33
4/9/13 at 2:02am
There are many different Frankincenses, and all have different properties. Try mixing several together. Definitely get some Olibanum Absolute. Also, have you tried mixing a little Myrrh or Opoponax into your formula? For a more smoky, "burning" effect, there are a couple of products which are effectively cracked Olibanum. One called "Vieilles Eglises" which smells just like old churches.
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post #12 of 33
4/9/13 at 4:32am
David, what is "cracked Olibanum"?
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post #13 of 33
4/9/13 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

For a more smoky, "burning" effect, there are a couple of products which are effectively cracked Olibanum. One called "Vieilles Eglises" which smells just like old churches.

For this effect i also recommend this tincturing trick. Worked for me!
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post #14 of 33
4/9/13 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post

David, what is "cracked Olibanum"?

Several resinous materials (including, Styrax, Olibanum and Labdanum) may be treated in such a way as to produce a smokier, darker version. I don't know how it is done, but it smells as if the material has been subjected to an almost destructive distillation (in the same way that Cade Oil, Birch Tar and Coal Tar are produced). It is not done to such an extent, but a rich, dark and definitely smoky note is produced. Look out for "Styrax pyrogene", for example
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post #15 of 33
4/9/13 at 9:23am
Oh, sounds fantastic.
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post #16 of 33
4/9/13 at 12:43pm
David, What Suppliers might you suggest that I ask about this Cracked Olibanum "Vieilles Eglises" type?


Updated Editing:

Since Frankincense is a distilled EO, the shorter the distillation time, the more topnote heavy the oil. Conversely, the Longer the Distillation time, the heavier it gets.

Frankincense Absolute lasts longer than the EO. The Resinoid lasts longer still, (in all probability). And crushed, dissolved, strained (Tinctured really) Frankincense tears lasts long as well.


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post #17 of 33
4/11/13 at 8:46am
I did some searching on this the other day and I found that Payan Bertrand offer a "pyrogenated" Olibanum essential oil, "obtained by special destructive distillation from olibanum gum". No description of the smell but it sounds like what we're talking about.
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post #18 of 33
4/11/13 at 10:05am
Renegade, Excellent Research, Thanks!
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post #19 of 33
4/12/13 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post

I did some searching on this the other day and I found that Payan Bertrand offer a "pyrogenated" Olibanum essential oil, "obtained by special destructive distillation from olibanum gum". No description of the smell but it sounds like what we're talking about.

This sounds good, I wonder how it compares to choya loban and I wonder if it would be possible to try for a sample.
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post #20 of 33
4/12/13 at 4:05pm
Payan Bertrand is sending me samples of their pyrogenated Cracked Olibanum "Vieilles Eglises" Frankincense, Styrax, and a few others (some pyrogenated too...) that came to the mind of my USA Rep, when I told him I am looking for Leathery things for my line.

I hadn't actually ever gotten him on the phone, but we must have known each other otherwise, since he already had my address, and knew me from my activity on LinkedIn forums as well.

We also talked about the West Coast USA perfumers going crazy, Robertet, the Salon events, etc...
A very nice Brit chap.

Great Smoky Frankincense, I mean REALLY great Materials have been my quest for many years, maybe these will fit the bill.
I got to smell some very nice frankincense at the Natural Products show in Los Angeles when Mike Storer and I went a month ago.

I really want to give a Hand clap to David and Renegade for helping my find this...
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post #21 of 33
4/12/13 at 4:34pm
That's great Paul, I hope you'll share your impressions with us after you've tried them.
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post #22 of 33
4/12/13 at 7:27pm
It will be a few weeks before I receive them, because they ship direct from Grasse to California...
But, Yes, I'll share..
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post #23 of 33
4/13/13 at 2:16am
I'm so glad that you were able to source these materials Paul; and I'm sorry that I had forgotten the supplier of them; PB, of course! Don't build up your hopes too high, but I'm sure you will enjoy them.
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post #24 of 33
4/13/13 at 5:14pm
It's always seemed "sour" to me.
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post #25 of 33
4/13/13 at 5:33pm
JungleNYC - Are you talking about the Payan Bertrand Pyrogenated Olibanum?
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post #26 of 33
4/14/13 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkiler View Post

JungleNYC - Are you talking about the Payan Bertrand Pyrogenated Olibanum?

I have a couple Frankincense EOs. And, to me, the "single note" thread is fairly accurate, but with a "sour" overtone.
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post #27 of 33
4/15/13 at 11:42pm
I would like to know that what is the diffrence between the perfume oil we are having in open market and the perfume oil used by botek perfumes
spoze
i have bought a perfume oil of silver creed and dullute into the pure alchol
its seems like orignal but its not diffusing and expanding like orignal
i can undrestand that there is a huge diffrence between what house of perfumes use in there product but my qut is
is it posibul to get the same perfume oil into the open market what used in orignal perfume ?
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post #28 of 33
4/16/13 at 10:35am
Tallat, your question isn't pertinent to this Frankincense discussion.

If you want to ask a question completely off the topic from another thread, just start a new thread, and post your question anew.
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post #29 of 33
4/22/13 at 2:53am
Frankincense has this unique smell which is hard to describe. It’s like wood, musk, dark, smoky, and everything in between. It’s a bit difficult to determine. I am quite interested on the scent you’re doing.
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post #30 of 33
4/22/13 at 5:45pm
So, I have the Payan Bertrand Samples in today...

And the Pyrogenated Olibanum, (pyrogenated Cracked Olibanum "Vieilles Eglises"), is not the same as the Choya Loban Frankincense that I have from White Lotus. The PB pyrogenated Olibanum "Vieilles Eglises" is very smoky of course, and is being smelled right now at full bore,... it is more oily than the Choya Loban Frank, and less smoky. If we say oily is wetter, the Choya Loban Frank is drier.

And then there is the PB Fumescens product, which is described as a slow destructive distillation of Frankincense, which on the surface seems a lot like the Choya Loban Frank, but again they ARE different... The PB Fumescens is smoky again, similar but has a peppery note on the top. In contrast, the Choyal Loban Frank smells more leathery to me.

There is also a Choya Loban made with Styrax too. And Since PB sent me a sample of their Pyrogenated Styrax, I'll also compare them too.

Time out momentarily,... I am just surrounded with SMOKE... of course, it doesn't help that I put this stuff on my arms, neat...

The PB Pyrogenated Styrax is yes smoky, but not near as much as the Choya Loban Stryax, which is almost purely smoke...
The PB Pyrogenated Styrax is much more warm, ambery yummy even... I like it too...

They sent three more, a Davana Processed, which is underwhelming. But maybe because of intensity of these pyrogenated elements, I should re-evaulate later...

And also Ambernote, and Cistus Oil Concentrated Extra.
These also are very nice, not very, but some smoky, and kind of more along the lines you would expect from their names, albeit still nicely different between them.

All smellings done neat, which is very strong, and diluted versions will lead to more nuanced evaluations later...
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post #31 of 33
4/23/13 at 12:26am
Risky to put anything on your skin at 100.0%, much better to use smelling strips. On skin you cannot follow the development over several hours (if not days) whilst with strips you can. I would dilute to at least 50.0% and dip onto strips.

Anyway, glad the samples arrived safely and that you like (some of) them. Hope they were what you wanted.
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post #32 of 33
4/23/13 at 7:56am
Titillating descriptions Paul. I wonder what the tenacity of these frankincense materials is like?
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post #33 of 33
4/23/13 at 12:53pm
I can still smell the Fumescens a day later on my arm.
Can't smell the Pyrogenated Olibanum.

And I wonder, because the Fumescens to me smells more like old churches, I think I like it better...
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