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The smell of bread?

post #1 of 19
2/5/12 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
This is slightly weird, but you all consistently amaze me with your capabilities so here goes...

The smell of fresh bread is said to be the most universally loved smell on the planet (vanilla is supposedly the second; though these may have been named in a study of the just the western first world).

I've been wondering to what degree that could be recreated. I'm interested because I love that yeasty, warm aspect--I think it's actually somewhat close to the smell of warm and slightly sweet clean human skin. To partially recreate that I think could be an excellent base for a perfume that could disappear quite well and give the perfume a familiar aspect. (I remember reading about a "bready" perfume a while ago, I think it was from l'artisan parfumeur but I'm not quite sure.)

It's kind of been stumping me. There's certain materials that sort of evoke a breadyness but they don't have that 'it' factor, the warmth and alimentativeness of bread-smell. Some things I've been sniffing have been coumarin (too grassy and sweet), palmarosa (too green), and carrot seed (too indolic).

Bread is a very substantial smell so it's probably likely to be complex.

Have any of you thought about this?
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post #2 of 19
2/5/12 at 7:20pm
Homofuronol is quite breadlike, and acetyl pyrazine is remarkably like corn chips. I recently received these from Perfumer's Apprentice. I think you are looking for materials like these, with a literal baked smell, not just a suggestion of it. I'm sure there is a large array of molecules contributing to the aromatics of baked bread, with some deriving from high temperature starch/protein/sugar reactions, and others deriving from yeast.
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post #3 of 19
2/6/12 at 1:57am
There are three "holy grails"; the smell of roast coffee, the smell of leather/new car, and the smell of baking bread. All for one reason or another pretty impossible to duplicate safely. Whenever you roast or cook a mixture of proteins and carbohydrates you start a series of complex chemical reactions (known as the Maillard reaction). There is a huge number of various chemicals responsible for these smells. Not only do you have to have them all but you have to have them in the right amounts. As far as I am aware no-one has created these smells. The leather/new car seems to be the easiest but you ned to use various highly toxic chemicals to achieve it. I think the best one can hope for is a caricature using the materials already mentioned.
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post #4 of 19
2/6/12 at 2:40am
When it comes to replicating "food smells" - I have always wondered if you could use some of the flavour chemicals in the fragrance. It seems there are enough widely available fragrant and flavour chemicals to repilicate the bread's smell and all of the smells. It will never be perfect, nor are all the other "certain smell imitating" perfume.

But with proper blend it can smell kind of bready and ewoke certain familiar emotions.
However i personally wouldn't like the yeasty note in it that much.
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post #5 of 19
2/6/12 at 11:29am
Depends what you want to do with the fragrance when you have finished; if it is for your own, personal use then there is nothing to stop you from using anything you like. However, I still think you will have a very hard job in duplicating the true smell of bread for the reasons I gave before. I remember, many years ago, being told by a Senior Flavourist, when I worked for a company that made both fragrances and flavours, that whilst Perfumers create new and original fragrances, flavorists only create caricatures. He, without prompting (!) thought that Perfumers were artists whilst Flavourists were only cartoonists.
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post #6 of 19
2/6/12 at 3:14pm
I do not how to create the effect but you should try and smell Bois Farine by L'Artisan Perfumeur if you have not done so, a very accurate flour / bread note.
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post #7 of 19
2/6/12 at 5:03pm
I found an interesting article in the scientific literature: PRESENT SITUATION ON THE DESCRIPTIVE SENSORY ANALYSIS OF BREAD, MAR
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post #8 of 19
2/7/12 at 1:52am
I bet that there's more. AND you haven't mentioned how much of each is present.
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post #9 of 19
2/7/12 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

I bet that there's more. AND you haven't mentioned how much of each is present.

Yes well, of course there's more. I just reported what is known at the moment by copying and pasting an extract from an article I found (in which THEY don't mention the quantity). If you don't need this information just ignore it.
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post #10 of 19
2/7/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otocione View Post

I found an interesting article in the scientific literature: PRESENT SITUATION ON THE DESCRIPTIVE SENSORY ANALYSIS OF BREAD, MAR
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post #11 of 19
2/8/12 at 2:07am
I'm not discounting the list of chemicals found in various types of bread; of course it is an excellent contribution. I think it merely emphasises just how difficult a job it is to duplicate the aroma of anything cooked, baked or roasted. As to whether I need the information; well, no, I don't. I don't do perfumery anymore, and when I did I never attempted to duplicate the smell of bread. But indeed, an excellent contribution here
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post #12 of 19
2/8/12 at 8:56pm
Thread Starter 
What a thread! It's definitely not a simple question. Also there's also an aspect of the deliciousness of fresh bread that, for me, would be difficult to deliver in a pure smell--I feel the smell of bread is so wonderful because it's often colored by the anticipation and excitement and comfort of knowing you are about to eat. It might be weird to just be smelling it continuously without eating anything.

David Ruskin, what do you mean by "holy grails"? Holy grails for perfumers, due to the niceness of their smell and the difficulty of their capture? Or are they your personal favorite smells? I agree that recreation of smells is always "caricature" but for the same reason that all human arts are, due to involvement with the way people abstract all of their perceptions when they commit them to memory.

Otocione, that's incredible. How did they capture the smells? With something like headspace? I wish I could smell them individually!

Accord, I'm about to place my next order from Perfumer's Apprentice, and I'm adding the things you mentioned!
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post #13 of 19
2/9/12 at 2:17am
What I meant by "Holy Grail" is that every Supermarket, grocery and Bakery wanted the smell of baking bread and roasting coffee as they are so delicious and always attract customers. Rather than roasting coffee or baking bread all the time they all wanted the smells in a can to be used whenever it was thought necessary to bring the punters into their shops. Of course every second hand car salesroom wanted their cars to smell new, for the same reason. Mind you, upon reflection a secondary meaning of "Holy Grail" could be that every perfumer would love to be able to duplicate such complex and attractive odours. I adore the smell of roasted coffee, the taste is often a letdown in comparison. And no coffee extract that I have smelled is comparable. Same with baking bread, although straight from the oven the taste is nearly there.
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post #14 of 19
2/10/12 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by greencourt View Post

Otocione, that's incredible. How did they capture the smells? With something like headspace? I wish I could smell them individually!

Actually I don't know since the article I found was a review reporting the state-of-the-art about this and other issues about bread, not reporting how they got there. To know it I should read the articles in the reference bibliography and I don't have time to di it
Anyway I guess that headspace SPME-MS could have been used, maybe together with simple GC-MS or HPLC-MS by making suitable solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

I'm not discounting the list of chemicals found in various types of bread; of course it is an excellent contribution. I think it merely emphasises just how difficult a job it is to duplicate the aroma of anything cooked, baked or roasted. As to whether I need the information; well, no, I don't. I don't do perfumery anymore, and when I did I never attempted to duplicate the smell of bread. But indeed, an excellent contribution here

This article permits to know what are the main components in bread odour. Of course is not everything but they can help a lot to get very close. So it's not just a way to emphasise the fact that it's a difficult task, it's actually the answer to the question asked in this thread.
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post #15 of 19
2/11/12 at 2:44am
Otocione, well done you!
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post #16 of 19
2/11/12 at 7:45am
I have not tried it, so can’t speak for it’s accuracy but I see from Adam’s latest newsletter that he now has a Bread Extract in his range - of course that isn’t the same as building the scent up from scratch - but it might be a shortcut to putting the note into a fragrance.

This is what Adam says about it in his newsletter:

Quote:
At the moment I am still trying to get more information on this so just want to say for now it is not an essential oil and this is why it has no botanical name – not from a plant. Its use is probably suited to a perfumer, however this is of a murky brown colour, smells lovely, like when you bake homemade bread and add too much yeast to your bowl!
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post #17 of 19
2/11/12 at 7:58am
That's very interesting! Do you think Adam could give you a GC-MS of the extract?
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post #18 of 19
2/11/12 at 8:02am
I think his quote means he does not have it yet, but I can ask certainly.
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post #19 of 19
2/11/12 at 8:07am
Let us know if he does!
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