Thank you rubegon, your comments are great. I think you are right about Eau de Rochas
being closer to an Eau de Cologne than what you think of as 'chypres'. The only problem is that some EdCs are in fact chypres, too. Not mutually exclusive, it get's confusing.O de Lancome
and Vent Vert
are probably the most deifnitive examples of how this works
. Intended as refreshing summerwear, to splash on, basically. But these too also really feel chypric in their drydown. It's often hairy in the more citric terrain especially. I have grown very sensitive to the interplay of patchouli, moss, and bergamot (and sometimes labdanum) that -- if in a very specific way are played with -- constitute a "chypre". Even when the overwhelming message is "EdC Splash!!".
I hope that Signoricci 2
will help you make the connection. It's more of a proper chypre (like Chanel PM), but it's also a very decent EdC, for all intents and purposes.
As to what constitutes a true chypre -- I must get into this, ru, I think, to help you think of what makes anything a kind of chypre -- it's a very narrowly delineated ratio of bergamot, patchouli, and okamoss (and originally labdanum, too). It's signature is reacognizable, once you get to know it.
But, and I emphasize that but
-- its ratio is only specific in and of itself: it can be a small player in another kind of perfume. For Example, some chypre florals I know (I don't know why Goldleaf
just popped into my mind. Oh, maybe because I am wearing it. LOL!) smell just like plain ol' flowery florals upon first blast; the chypre is just a small player in their effect. But it's chypre once you catch it, absolutely!
Some fragrances are BIG on the chypre, and build around it with the other ingredients, tweaking it and personalizing it, and I love those most (I love chypre). Cabochard
goes here, Azuree
goes here (a leather to me and not at citric). These are easy to recognize. Some even add more of one chypric ingredient to hoke up the chypre and take it to an angle. I am thinking of Ungaro's Diva
, which is an oakmoss bomb, and of HdP's Marquis de Sade
, which is a pathouli bomb. Chypres are so much fun to dive into!So to answer your question
about whether EdCs with certain base ingredients are citric chypres:
a. There are not fast rules in terminology. EdCs are certainly EdCs, so it's not neccessary to nitpick, actually. It just happens I do.
b. As you get now, it's more than basenotes, it's a balanced recipe basenotes and topnotes
added to said EdC, which makes it a citric chypre (as well as an EdC)... when one does care to nitpick.
And with regard to new, mossfree chypres
: This perfumista, for one, says, "Like Hell".
That said, in my recommendations and in my sample pack, too. I took great 'perfuma-poetic' interpretive licence with the "notion" of the "citric chypre". So please keep that in mind, all
Some of my choices were citric alone, and not chypric in the least. Some were chypric and not too very citric (but maybe their verdancy or refreshing quality inspired me too offer them). And some were just plain verdant. And some were just a wild take on citrus that made me smile... You get the point....
I wish I had separated the absolutely categorical citric chypres
in my sample box
! But if it's of interest to anyone, I'd be happy to identify those true blues as we progress!
So far, only the Vent Vert
and the Kanebo
, and the Eau de Calandre
fit the bill. And Alityke would probably agree they smell nothing alike. Lots of fun
Oh! One more thing, and then I am done about chypres. I say this on these female frag boards all the time because I am silly and a tad fussy. But the simply seeing notes of Bergamot, Okamoss, and Patchouli does not mean it's a chypre!
I explained the ratio bit above, so the reasons make sense, why those notes can act independently of a chypre accord. But it's a fallacy I see so often it hurts, because so many vintages used those ingredients,
which aren't chypres. Like lots of Orientals and Aldehydics
. Oh, Aldehydics get really hairy, because some chypres are really aldehydic (Y
) and some aldehydics are almost chypres, too (19
Okay, need to shut the piehole, going to bed now