Basenotes Content

Basenotes has a staff?

I think I hear the creak of a trap door opening...

Maybe give him a couple of days..... I think its one dude, Grant right?

Yeh, and I think Grant plays the role more of Publisher / Editor drawing on writers like persolaise and others who contribute articles to the 'front page'.

For in-depth analysis with attitude I tend to check out 1,000 fragrances (mind you he's not going this year), Grain de Musc, Bois de Jasmin and anything else that pops up.

lol!!

OMG, Brian! Of course there's criticism in the industry.

There's nice. And then there's REALLY NICE! And if its not one of those two, it's NEW and EXCITING!

Here - you can borrow my shoe-wiping stick.....

LOL! That was my first thought as well.

And (((Brian)))- Auntie Knit is a tad disappointed you didn't post something like " I may have released some lovely fecal notes with this step" instead of that common vernacular expression. But we still love you.

My guess is, there is no time for analysis, it's all sniff & run. I think it's fine to have snippets of news published as the fair is ongoing, but I hope there will be at least one in-depth article after Milan, that will report on the overall trends and currents in the industry.

I would love a more snarky attitude in the articles (The perfumed Awl?), but the "be nice for God's sake!" seems to be the default writing style for all blogs and news sites that write about fragrance.

I suspect that like several other "significant" fragrance websites we all could mention, the front men for Basenotes now see their role as simply "presenting us" with the newest things that come on the market.

And leave it up to us surfs to do the dirty work of taking them apart.

Given that, hopefully none of us are weighty enough to spring the trap door.

After all, we are only doing our part.

What I've learned is that it takes time to study a frag, and this is an issue with "reviewing," because few people want to wait a couple months before the reviewer writes a review. Moreover, think of how many new frags are released each year. It's simply not possible for one person to give even half of them the time necessary for an appropriate review. Hence, I prefer to do things my own way, and I don't really take any one person too seriously (including myself LOL).

I believe Basenotes provides us with the news, the facts, as they always have.
Then, we basenoters choose what's best for us (or not) based on the news BN provided.

Scents are such a personal journey, it is up to each one of us to sample/test as much as we can and then create a personal opinion and then also discuss about it.

cheers

Hello. I do have a writer with me this year to help with the fair but I wouldn't say we had a staff. Basenotes has never been about what I think of a fragrance, the idea of the site is to provide a platform for other people to express their views. My view is insignificant - I'm more of a curator.

Its actually really difficult to smell properly here too. There;s over 150 stalls, each showing their range of new fragrances, and hundreds of people milling about spraying stuff. I probably will do a round up of trends when I get back, but basically -- expect more people putting "oud" in things and charging another 100 euros for it. A bit sad really.

I think it boils down to access. Happy bird gets the early worm. Bitey bird - not so much.

Part of the reason I just tend to ignore scents that I don't like, rather than panning them, is that I turn around on scents so often - sometimes just days or weeks later, and other times, years later. I have learned to eat my own distasteful words less often - by creating them less often.

Which is totally fine with me.

After all, I suspect that's what we all would be sniffing for, were we were fortunate enough to be there with you.

I see it as the IMDB of perfume. You don't go to IMDB for film critiques, right?
Simply for dry information, and you visit other sites, blogs, mostly, to read criticism.

I can imagine getting complete ' nose lock ' with all the different scents wafting everywhere .
Hmm, the Oud Wagon has permanently parked then . I suppose with restrictions on many materials Oud fills the gap nicely .

Maybe it was oud on the shoe!

The BN 'staff' have enough on their plate to really need a big hug right now. We are the ones supposed to be writing the interesting stuff. For some critical analysis, have a look at the testing threads and the reviews. Play some perfume games, blind sniffs etc. Think up a new game maybe...

My original plan for Basenotes was to be the IMDB of perfume! I go there to read what movie watchers think by reading the user reviews. What IMDB has to say as a company, would be of no interest, as I like to read a range of views.

There are lots of really good perfume reviewers on the forums and Basenotes directory, as well as some fantastic blogs. I will be doing a round up of trends and highlights later but I've never considered myself a fragrance reviewer.

I like the comparison with IMDB a lot, Hillaire and Grant!

As do I, Larimar and Hillaire.

Hey Brian, I hear ya. Press releases are for the most part meaningless.

Have you ever been to a trade show/fair? I attend quite a few during the year that are apparel/design/art related; they are always overwhelming, redundant and ultimately mid-numbing. All you can really get from them are the trends, as Grant stated.

The critics will get their teeth in a little later.

Absolutely. I've been to Fragranze in september (which is basically the same type of trade show/fair as Esxence but located in Florence instead of Milan) and it was overwhelming to say the least. Hundreds of stalls, a lot of "noise" due to the huge amount of perfumes sprayed, very crowded...impossible to smell. I took a bunch of samples, looked around to see some new releases and then, when I got back home, I started analyzing the fragrances...

During the Trade Show I suppose Mr. Osborne is busy assembling trends, ideas, and he is just plain busy. Must attend such and such, catch up conversations with people he runs into and has not seen in a while, worry about the website - how well is it repaired after the hack, and he is just plain tired. Tired of overload.

After he is back, a more thorough sifting out of all that has happened can begin.

After some distance, the greedy crowd of members will get all those trends and news: More articles on the News Page, more threads started with food for thought.

What exactly is the policy here ? Do members just put down whatever thoughts occur to their minds and thus fill space and use "bandwith" ? Or, is there some sort of mission statement ? Like, "Here at Basenotes, we ....."

Please enlighten me.

Tusk tusk Brian, you know better then this...will all know what happened if we don't see you on next week. Lol

LOL! Actually, that's fine... better for people to buy up the synthetic oud frags, the real stuff is expensive enough as it is. We don't need demand driving the prices of the dwindling oud supply any higher!

I'm sure they will be fine, and likely priced about the same per mL as a decent pure oud oil.

Thanks, Grant. Yes, I also think oud is very trendy. I had one Tom Ford pushing it and saying Ford was the first house to use the note.

I'd disagree that the time necessary to study a fragrance is a problem in reviewing. Why would it take a couple of months to write a review? I'm just thinking that book reviewers seem to do ok reviewing books that take days or weeks to read, so why couldn't someone write a competent review after wearing a perfume once or twice?

I admit I don't come here for in-depth reviews. I do enjoy the reviews on this site, and I've got to know a few BNers whose opinions I trust, but if I want something more comprehensive I go to Bois de Jasmin, NST, Katie Puckrik, and even Il Mondo di Odore (which does mostly "men's" fragrances).

Having been there yesterday, I have to concur.

I much prefer something like IMDb. If only a couple of staff review fragrances, look at how many reviews by e.g. Turin or that other guy (see I'm not all that interested in them :-) you dis/agree with. Same for music magazines and such. I remember as kids we often loved the records that received 1 star and got completely torn apart, many of them are considered classics now. BN staff reviews would just be more opinions and I'd still wait for the rest of the BN mob to test the frags thoroughly.

Yup. I agree these trade shows are about trends, pretty much like Fashion Week. But the occasional scoop would be nice. And here I thought the Oud train is running out of steam. Maybe we can expect fresh aquatics to hit the big time in Middle Eastern markets soon.

"expect more people putting "oud" in things and charging another 100 euros for it. A bit sad really."

That is sad.

This post contains Oud, Please deposit £15/$20 to read it.

Bounce dryer sheets in 'sensual oud' could be a hot seller

Note: slightly edited to closely match what I actually submitted. See next post. -Red


Honestly, I shared your disappointment the first time I saw a fragrance trade show covered (and I'm talking about coverage by *everybody*). I guess my expectations have been lowered over time. But I still think you're right - there should be some excitement analogous to a lot of other shows. The major media always has rave coverage of new fashion and new tech at those shows. And I further agree that Basenotes is the ideal (if not the ONLY) place which could be that agent of change.

Imagine Turin and Sanchez doing Ebert-and-Siskel-style reviews, live from the show! Maybe Puckrik and Burr? It would be pretty sweet.

As far as the access thing - well, I don't think that it actually *has* to be the way it is, but for lack of enough of an influential, independent critical culture, it *is* very controlled. Like the tech industry - where preview access to new tech is *hugely* controlled - the strings are a lot more visible from the inside. None of the big players want to *appear* like they're trying to control opinion and shape perceptions, but mess with Apple or M$ and watch the fangs come out. Tech bloggers who bitch about how little they did to get crossed off the party list are so common, it's almost its own form of tech humor now. The beauty industry definitely isn't as bad as tech, IMO, but the situation is still problematic. The closest thing to an independent critic that we've had was Turin, whose opinions were *not* exactly welcomed. I get the impression that Burr encountered the same forces that Turin did, but negotiated them in his own style, with somewhat different results.

That said, the problem is exactly what you're describing. There is simply not a sufficient, or sufficiently prominent, layer of independent criticism and opinion, to overcome the normal and natural desire of any industry to shape its environment for its own benefit. I'm not blaming the industry - if anything, the beauty industry is so self-introspective on issues like animal cruelty and component safety, that they are easily accused of co-opting their critics to a fault (e.g., IFRA). But it seems to me that there has been no emergence of a hotly contested critical culture with the power to save or condemn a new launch, in the same way that a unanimity of critical voices can now seriously help or harm a movie. Personally, I think that it would be to the *overall* benefit of the industry to have more and stronger critical voices, which could - as you suggest - raise things up to the standards and prominence of the music culture and the movie culture. But it's a scary step - kind of like letting your kids grow up and leave home. And in just the same way, I really agree that it's something that *should* happen.

Now - the reality. It takes money to pull that off. Not sure if BN has the budget to really fund "fly two BNers to Italy so they can write highly opinionated and entertaining, possibly even Turinesque, reviews of fragrances". I would love it if they did.

So..... let me put my boot-cleaning stick in a hornets nest.

There is a trade show in New York in August. I personally think that this one guy I know on Basenotes, by the name of Brian Chambers, is fully qualified to report on it, and to give some honest, well-written, and *real* criticism, that we would all enjoy reading. In fact, if he did this now, before he got too (how can I say this nicely) smooch-roped by the industry, then he could probably *remain* an independent critical voice, which we so desperately hunger for.

It's almost five months from now, so I am fully confident that he would be sufficiently well-versed in fragrance that I could fully trust his descriptions (I already can, but as I scientist, I love to overdo things). I already know that his views of many facets of fragrance parallel mine, so I am guaranteed to benefit hugely from his insights. And I know this dude named Grant who could put his stuff on the front page......

Seriously - I challenge you to *be* that voice. I really hope you consider doing it.

PS - sorry for the ridiculous format of the preceding post. It was not even my final version - it was a draft version, about two edits before I was satisfied. And the bloody site won't let me edit it.

I'm so sick of my Mac's problems (yes, it got fixed, but they cheaped out and only replaced the hard drive, and not the logic board, when the admitting technician *knew* it was the friggin' logic board) - well, I'm about ready to ditch my Mac and get it on with Tux. Bloody Hell, excuse my French.

Anyway, I'm going to refrain from posting until I get a solid computer. If I cannot guarantee that I'm posting what I meant to post, then screw it.

TTYL, LYA, BFN. -Red

I read this post, Redneck Perfumisto. You write - tongue in cheek - for certain members to prepare ahead of time to attend and then report.

But, am I missing something here ?

Scent evaluation takes place after sniffing the sample. So, Mr. Grant could bring back a pile of samples, and then the best educated noses of the best educated members could do some sniffing and then write about it.

This way the reviews will be untarnished by the industry - what they want to hear - and would come directly from the midst of Basenotes. This group has existed long enough to be able to do criticsm or praise, and there are some eloquent writers amongst you.

Instead of putting the samples up in a Raffle, and just give them away, let only the most educated members have those samples, and do their homework and WRITE.

Maybe you are misreading me. I think Grant is doing fine. I don't think Grant should change anything that he is doing, other than to consider adding some more robust critics to the front page, as Brian suggests. Grant has to deal with the industry - how he chooses to do that is totally his call. But I'm going even further, in offering a friendly challenge to Brian, who I think is actually capable of being one of those robust critics.

I'm serious. I would LOVE for Brian to go to Elements Showcase, simply be himself, and report honestly how he feels about the fragrances he's sniffing. No preparation. No homework. Nothing but the Brian that we know and love. I know that I for one would love to read it.

The five months of preparation are merely to build self-confidence.

I'll be blunter still, within the rule of avoiding commenting personally about other members. I think that Brian underestimates his critical ability, though he has the necessary modesty to doubt his own nose and his own abilities (the advice of JCE, even, to perfumers). I sincerely hope that Brian takes a leap and does what he is wishing somebody else would do. There are many, many fragrance reviewers, and a fair number of fragrance writers, but it takes a bit of bravery and will to follow the path of Turin as far as criticism. Brian, thankfully, sees the absence of robust criticism, and it bothers him. I can think of no better qualification to actually do something about a problem, than to see it and be moved by it, when others either do not see it, or do not choose to act.

We have many critical (and I'm using that word to mean *truly* critical) voices at the user review level, but there aren't a lot of them that could move from the blog or the forum to the front page. Brian's writing style is kick-ass, as we say in these parts. The way it adds up seems pretty obvious to me.

We bemoan the fact that Turin has gone 24/7 to science. Well - maybe somebody should do something about it. I'm nominating Brian to lead the way.

I have approached this problem too simplistic, but I DID cover two points: Non-influenced by the industry and straight from the midst of Basenotes.

Red, I LOVE the idea! How can we convince Brian??????

I'd say you're helping just fine!

I'm just praying he doesn't have a vacation around that time. *fingers crossed*

I agree, Ursula - I think these are the core of the issue.

To be truly and completely non-influenced by the industry is almost impossible. The industry is composed of people just like us - scent lovers! Not everybody got there as a fragrance fanatic, but many of them did. They all care deeply about fragrance. And money, and success, and all the other things that normal business people care about, but they do - all of them - live and breathe fragrance. And people who care about fragrance and beauty and all that stuff *all* have something to say about it, and all have a spin they want to put on it. This thread, this post, these words. I'll admit it. We all do. But I think that Brian has a real point about the difference between PR and real critique, and maybe we need more of the latter.

And the midst of Basenotes - yes. But I have to be honest - is that going to come from the current user reviews? They are getting back in shape, but that's not going to happen overnight (the thumbs up/down/sideways and the text basically have nothing to do with each other for a significant fraction of them - not sure if that's hacky wackiness or what, but it really devalues the things). I really think that some of the other blogs derive a lot of press from early and in-depth reviews of important scents. I think it would be nice if some of those reviews showed up here. We have some great reviewers here, and maybe some of those great reviews need to be earlier, more prominent, and more important. And if the people behind the fragrance are worried about the reception that the juice might get, Grant could offer up Pro and Con reviews, or simply the old Ebert/Siskel style (it was rare that both of them would pan something, and likely to generate interest even then!)

But the bottom line is that - maybe - it's all gotten a bit too PRish, and the "Perfume DB" front page needs to have a bit of excitement through critical pizzazz.

I second the idea RP. Go for it Brian!

I don't know how to put this into words without sounding offensive, but let's try: The fact that the website BASENOTES is large is good - because there is then a lot of talent. It is also a deficit, because largeness needs some order and structure and that flattens the acuteness of the individual.

You say, pizzazz is missing. Maybe so, because of some kind of herd behavior.

School has structure, the army has structure. To speak out with boldness and with vividness may ruffle feathers. And BASENOTES has a reputation to keep up.

But it is an ideal platform to get a mass-poll opinion from so many passionate and educated perfumophiles in one spot. The industry should be happy to have a free Focus Group !!

We are a horrible focus group, IMO. It might be interesting to get opinions from people who are into studying frags, but we're a very poor cross section of most fragrance's target audience. At least ones that use focus groups.

I agree that we are a nice way to get a multiple-viewpoint view of how fragrance fans view scents....


....but I also agree with you, Dorje, that we are a horrible focus group for the "real world" of perfume consumers.

That's OK. Movie critics trashed "Blues Brothers" at the time of its release, if I remember correctly, yet it not only did well, but has gone on to become something of a classic. I think that the fragrance industry would not only survive a more prominent critical community that just might be (I'm being nice here) somewhat more picky, snobby, niche and classic-worshiping than the regular buying community. So? Take its pronouncements with a grain of salt.

The flip side is equally attractive to me. It may bring perfume criticism a bit down to earth, where it really should be. Critics who deride popular emerging classics often enough will simply get reputations for being out of touch with the masses. Yet their reviews are still potentially useful, first of all to a similar community, and even in that their consistency will allow normal readers to react accordingly. In movies, I used to savor anything that Bernard Drew hated. Yes, he was that predictable, and that antithetical to my own sensibilities. If Ebert liked it as well, it was always worth the money. I'm sure that prominent mainstream-hating fragrance critics are equally useful to people who like no-nonsense, cookie-cutter scents that smell good and don't attract too much attention. To each, his or her own.