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What's up at The Perfumed Court? - Page 4  

post #181 of 237
4/11/12 at 1:34pm
These forums aren't working very well for me lately -- anyone else having the same problem?

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post #182 of 237
4/11/12 at 1:54pm
On April 1st TPC was locked out of our payment gateway - The vendors told TPC they would fulfill their orders - However we have had a huge number of complaints from customers that they have not received their goods - Since we do not have access to the original payment gateway & TPC had to procur a new one. I have NO WAY of refunding anyone for product unreceived before April 1st at 3:40 pm when the new gateway was put in place. The email was sent to customers who show that the orders by the other 2 vendors were not shipped - Even though these 2 vendors Told us in writing they would fulfill their orders and a full list of open orders were emailed to them, they still have not confirmed that they have shipped these items. As a response to customer concerns about unreceived product and demands for refunds, we sent this email to customers whose orders at TPC during these dates - March 29-April 1st, to let them know, if need be, how to recoup their funds. Many of of you will receive duplictae the amount you ordered as we went ahead and shipped out any product we had on hand just to make sure if we could not to leave people empty handed. If you are confused I suggest you write customer service as was recommended in the email
post #183 of 237
4/11/12 at 2:33pm
I am a customer service representative with The Perfumed Court.

The email stated above, was sent ONLY to customers with open orders between March 29th and April 1st. On April 1st, 2012 The Perfumed Court was locked out of our payment gateway. The vendors who left TPC told us they would fulfill all of their open orders, however we have had many complaints from customers that they have not received their goods. Since we no longer had access to the original payment gateway, TPC had to procure a new one. The sole owner of TPC has NO WAY of refunding anyone for product unreceived before April 1st at 3:40 pm when the new gateway was put into place since the other two vendors have this gateway. The email stated above was sent to customers who show that the orders by the other two vendors were not shipped. The email was to assist the customer, if need be, in how to recoup their funds. Many of you will receive duplicate the amount of product you ordered as TPC went ahead and shipped out any product we had on hand just to make sure, if we could, not to leave people empty handed even though it was not our product or order to ship. If you are still confused we suggest you write us at customer service as was recommended in the email. However please understand that due to these sudden transitions, we are quite backed up, and we are working as hard as we can to get everything straightened out and corrected for all our loyal customers.

tpc.customerservice@gmail.com

-Diane Weissman (Owner of The Perfumed Court) and Seara and Joy (Customer Service Team)
post #184 of 237
4/11/12 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

TPC is now closed according to website.

Looks fine to me, whatcha talkin 'bout Willis?
post #185 of 237
4/11/12 at 4:52pm
Oh what happened to the post from the new member " TPCCustomerservice" ?
post #186 of 237
4/11/12 at 4:56pm
Hmm....
post #187 of 237
4/11/12 at 8:51pm
The two members that left the Perfumed Court have just started Surrender To Chance.
TPC will not be able to complete orders for fragrances solely held by the two former members.

projectswatch, I suggest you contact Surrender To Chance and inquire if they will fulfill the items that TPC can not.
It will be interesting to see if they honor orders for which they have supposedly received payment.
If not, disputing the payments you made should get you a refund.

Sounds like a major pain though!

Thanks for sharing this info too. I for one will be steering clear of both until the dust settles.
post #188 of 237
4/11/12 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectswatch View Post

I registered at Basenotes just because I'm so confused about what's going on at TPC. I got an email earlier today asking me to do a chargeback for items I ordered (and received!). Email is as follows, my name and order number redacted. Anyone else receive this?

Dearest [name]

We regret to inform you that your recent Order [number] was affected by an unfortunate circumstance, which is detailed below. As a result, we may not have access to some of the items on this order and you will need to pursue reimbursement in full for these items (see instructions below).

If you have yet to receive ALL of the items in your order, we are asking you to please Dispute the Charge. Since we are not in control of the Merchant provider account or payment you have made, we cannot refund or dispute this on your behalf.

Please contact the appropriate entity (we have listed the two options below) and provide them with the following information:
[details redacted]

If you paid with a Credit Card, you should call the Customer Service number on the back of your card.

If you paid with PayPal, please login to your account and file a claim against your purchase for non-receipt or you can contact PayPal customer service directly (888-221-1161).

Incident Details -
Without warning, two of our previously trusted vendors left the The Perfumed Court and did not fulfill of all their orders for which they (NOT The Perfumed Court) received payment via your credit card or paypal payment. Understandably, due to this abrupt and unexpected change, The Perfumed Court is currently experiencing significant issues with order completion, shipping, and a severe backlog in our customer service department. Additionally, some of the fragrances ordered are not currently available at The Perfumed Court.

Please accept our most sincere apology for any inconvenience you may experience, and know that we are working diligently to ship all of the items that we possibly can. Please log into your account at www.theperfumedcourt.com and view your order status to learn how your order is affected.

We sincerely want The Perfumed Court to remain your preferred palace of fine fragrance samples. We are working furiously to acquire many of the items which we do not currently have in stock, and we have deactivated those items that are not available for us to acquire at this time. We will re-list these items as they become available to us.

Again, we apologize for this incident and any inconvenience to you as a result. We greatly appreciate your patronage and patience as we work to resolve and rectify these issues to the best of our ability.

Sincerely,
The Perfumed Court

To help you understand the status of your order and any action required by you, we have created three categories for your convenience:

Vendor Fail - Full Ship (We were able to complete your order from our own stock, although payment for some or all of the items on your order was not received by us. If you do not receive double the items you ordered, please dispute this charge.)

Vendor Fail - Partial Ship (We have shipped all items we currently have access to, but the remaining open items are not available to us at this time. You will need to pursue reimbursement for these items.)

Vendor Fail (We do not have access to the items on this order and you will need to pursue reimbursement in full.)


I got the same email. Ordered a decant of Insense, took a little over a week to me but I still got it. That email popped up today, and they have my order listed as a vendor fail. I got the order, so I am writing to their customer service to let them know not to worry.

Here is where I have the problem: This is terrible customer service and would basically send me screaming over to the first competitor I could find if I hadn't received my order for two reasons:
1: The whole point of the email boils down to them literally saying sorry you didn't get your order, we magically don't have your money, the other guy took it, good luck. I'm told to do a chargeback but I have no tracking number, and I don't have the name of the vendor that split. My credit card company is godawful to do a chargeback with even if you have full proof you didn't get your order, here I have no proof. Why not tell me what vendor split so I can at least have a fighting chance?
2: Ok, so let's assume I didn't get the product, but my credit card company had no problem and refunded the money. How terrible is your business model? Two vendors split, and even though your company charged my card, you don't have the money. You offer no insight on how to get my money back beyond stating to call my card, and to top if off I've just now gotten this email after you've had my money for two weeks.
A good business would have thrown a bone my way. "We lost your money,but the next time you want to order 5mls of GIT at a hideous markup, take 10 percent off."

Nope. Nothing like that.

I was going to place a larger order this week but I think I would rather hunt around and just buy blind than deal with this sort of business.
post #189 of 237
4/11/12 at 9:06pm
The two members that left the Perfumed Court have just started Surrender To Chance.
TPC will not be able to complete orders for fragrances solely held by the two former members.

projectswatch, I suggest you contact Surrender To Chance and inquire if they will fulfill the items that TPC can not.
It will be interesting to see if they honor orders for which they have supposedly received payment.
If not, disputing the payments you made should get you a refund.

Sounds like a major pain though!

Thanks for sharing this info too. I for one will be steering clear of both until the dust settles.
post #190 of 237
4/12/12 at 1:16am
Basenotes has/had serious database issues it seems past 24 hrs.
post #191 of 237
4/12/12 at 2:23am
"Without warning, two of our previously trusted vendors left the The Perfumed Court and did not fulfill of all their orders for which they (NOT The Perfumed Court) received payment via your credit card or paypal payment."

This sentence sounds like the three ladies did not part like good friends...
post #192 of 237
4/12/12 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

Well, I mean, for how long did you think 3 women could agree on anything together?

.......you mean 3 basenoters !
post #193 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:17am
I got a regular e-mail update this morning that my order is filled. Business as usual. Like this site BN is frequently down, with this change-over a few glitsches are to be expected. Business people iron these things out.
post #194 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:28am
1. TPC site is up and working for me.
2. This is all very confusing.
3.To be fair to Surrender To Chance- I received their newsletter from which ,this portion I am posting comes from :


Orders when we were at The Perfumed Court



There appears to be some misunderstanding about orders we were a part of during our last few days at TPC and whether they were shipped.

We both shipped on all orders we had record of and which we were e-mailed a copy of until about 10 or 11 a.m. Mountain time on Sunday April 1, 2012. Almost all of those went in the mail by April 3 at the latest, the exceptions being a few items on backorder. We were asked for shipping details on Monday April 9, which were furnished by e-mail or were sent through the regular mail service.

If you had an order placed near the end of March at TPC and want to be sure anything Lisa or Patty was shipping has gone in the mail and haven't received the specifics of that from TPC, please feel free to contact us by replying to this newsletter. We absolutely want to make sure every person who placed an order receives all items in the order, no matter who shipped them.
post #195 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo_Gals View Post

On April 1st TPC was locked out of our payment gateway - The vendors told TPC they would fulfill their orders - However we have had a huge number of complaints from customers that they have not received their goods - Since we do not have access to the original payment gateway & TPC had to procur a new one. I have NO WAY of refunding anyone for product unreceived before April 1st at 3:40 pm when the new gateway was put in place. The email was sent to customers who show that the orders by the other 2 vendors were not shipped - Even though these 2 vendors Told us in writing they would fulfill their orders and a full list of open orders were emailed to them, they still have not confirmed that they have shipped these items. As a response to customer concerns about unreceived product and demands for refunds, we sent this email to customers whose orders at TPC during these dates - March 29-April 1st, to let them know, if need be, how to recoup their funds. Many of of you will receive duplictae the amount you ordered as we went ahead and shipped out any product we had on hand just to make sure if we could not to leave people empty handed. If you are confused I suggest you write customer service as was recommended in the email

I highlighted the text what impresses me, as a customer, with business ethics. Good luck for fixing up the rest. Your customer, Ursula.
post #196 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:44am
Wow this is truly one of the most bungled and confusing business transitions ever. It's almost as if the two ladies intentionally tried to create a lot of chaos with TPC as a parting shot. It seems very disrespectful to the customer and speaks very poorly to the business ethics (or lackthereof) of StC. I personally have placed a recent sample order with a separate e-tailer because I have no interest in my money becoming involved in the power struggle between these women and their companies. I wonder how many other customers are holding off on orders until this mess blows over as well. What a mess.
post #197 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:57am
With TPC - still having the faith based on the previous Good Will factor - I purposely placed two orders - spaced about a week apart - and each order was for one item, only. Things that I wanted - picked from the merchandise as advertised normally on TPC website. The website is adjusted as only one person running it. Everything went totally normal, two e-mail confirmations, and one update that the first of the two orders has been filled. My faith is not shaken.

What bothers me, however, is how entangled web-transactions can become. Get your money back from there, call customer service, be re-assured of this or that. Oh boy, if this were a brick-and-mortar store,

items would be visibly on a shelf, if one item is lifted off the shelf, it is accounted for as gone. Simplicity ...

Now, modern gateways ... frightening. Makes you think. On one hand, computers make life fast and easy, but when communications malfunction between former partners, you wish you were not among this situation which started peaceful and is now messy.
post #198 of 237
4/12/12 at 10:04am
I've placed multiple orders from TPC in the past and I'd love nothing more to support them again but when I see things like this...



..it makes me feel like I'm really being taken advantage of. I received a 1ml sample of this same Kilian fragrance (along with 6 other 1ml samples of my choice) from Aedes for a mere $15 including free shipping, whereas from TPC it'd cost over $30 with shipping for just the one sample. As a customer, how am I not to feel insulted?
post #199 of 237
4/12/12 at 12:14pm
l signed up for STC's newsletter but haven't received one. l did get an email confirming that my order has been shipped, though.

Re. the controversy, l don't know what to think or who to believe anymore. The whole thing just saddens me.
post #200 of 237
4/12/12 at 12:15pm
I don't feel "insulted". As a customer and internet shopper, it is me who has the freedom of choice, and the obligation to myself to make the best, price-conscious choice. It would be insulting and misleading if TPC said, "we have the best deal for you and you cannot get it anywhere cheaper than this particular and wonderful deal" but they are not saying that. They merely tacked a price to the merchandise.

Before I shop at TPC, PerfumeShoppe, LuckyScent, TauerPerfumes, AedesdeVenustas or any of the sample places, my eyes travel over their websites and my fingers do the clicking (and the walking) and sometimes, once in a while, really great deals practically stare at me. And then, I pounce upon them, before they get shopped out.

That is the beauty of internet shopping. Most probably things will settle down, get sorted out ... and then TPC is again among the places where the customers shop with confidence. Trust has to be earned. I can say that TPC still has my trust.
post #201 of 237
4/12/12 at 12:38pm
Having just come back to this thread, l've now noticed several posts from last night that l swear weren't there when l looked earlier. And so many random multiple posts, it's really confusing.

Dear mods, is there any way you can tidy up this thread by removing the repeat posts? l don't know about anyone else, but it drove me bonkers reading it!
post #202 of 237
4/12/12 at 12:39pm
I'm probably taking a bit of a risk in saying this, but I really think that the way forward is to be a little patient, not to jump to any conclusions too quickly and have a little faith in all concerned. I grant that I was a little thrown by the email I received, but as I said in my post above, I simply emailed Patty to politely ask if she had any news regarding the relevant samples and - as it turned out - everything was fine. Patty told me that the samples in question had been mailed a few days ago and they did indeed arrive this morning (I'm in the UK).

I get the feeling that tempers are running a little high and some of us are reacting too quickly to new information. We should all bear in mind that unless one of us is involved in the day-to-day running of either TPC or STC, it's highly unlikely that we "know" anything about what took place between the parties involved. I think the only graceful thing to do is give everyone the benefit of the doubt, ask polite questions (by contacting TPC or STC rather than relying on theories posted here) if we have any concerns and try not to get carried along on a tide of supposition.

Just my two cents, I don't expect you all to agree with me but would really like to see some of the unpleasantness curbed. It's not good for any of us. And yes, I am fully prepared to get a little stick for this post... But my intentions are good, I promise!
post #203 of 237
4/12/12 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

TALK ABOUT TOTAL B.S.!!!!

Specifically the part about the 'sudden unexpected departure'. If you take a look at that new website, Surrender To Chance, it's a fully function e-commerce site with backend database, inventory, overlay window shopping cart options, etc.

A website like this is not built in a day, or even a week. If the TPC was still collecting payments from people knowing full well that the orders couldn't be fulfilled, that is a serious issue.

Furthermore, if the two chicks that left TPC built the new website in secret, and then one day just up and left, having collected money from TPC customers but not fulfilling the orders, that borders on a crime, if not is a crime.

This message from TPC goes completely contrary to the whole 'daises and unicorns' blog post made about the new website and how the whole split/departure from TPC was mutual. If it was REALLY mutual, they would have made pre-determined arrangements about how to handle fulfillment of orders currently in process and/or outstanding at TPC.

Ample time would have been made to adjust the TPC inventory to reflect all unavailable items, and ship any outstanding TPC orders BEFORE THE NEW WEBSITE/VENTURE was launched. Also any details regarding control of the merchant account for both Paypal and Credit Cards would have been worked out. I mean - in the email TPC states that it doesn't have control of its own merchant account?!?!

If that was the case the TPC site should have been shut down the very day any of this became a possibility.

It is my recommendation, and I'm sure other here will concur, THAT NO ONE HERE PLACES AN ORDER - WITH EITHER WEBSITE, until all of this is sorted out. Talk about 'surrendering to chance' LOL. If right now you go and place an order with either TPC or STC, I'd say you're taking a big chance with your money.

And I don't care if in fact STC being new is up to date with inventory and shipping. To have left customers from TPC in the lurch while having taken their money, and then forcing those customers to go an INITIATE CHARGEBACKS with PayPal or their credit card provider as the 'remedy' for this situation is DISGUSTING from a business and customer service point of view.

What's next? The two over at STC decide to go their own way and we have a 3rd website called "Surrender Your Money" ???

Sounds like that famous episode from Mad Men when half the agency decamps with the client list and files to start their own agency. It makes for good TV but this thing just shows the worst possible business practices. The new site must have taken months to set up, must have been done in secret, and deeply compromises customer personal data and confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if law suits follow. I would never do business with any of these people. Customers are never supposed to have personal staff conflicts inflicted on them (ever been to a restaurant where the staff yells at each other in the dining room? Does not encourage return business.) This just suggests the most juvenile and irresponsible attitude toward business.
post #204 of 237
4/12/12 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

Well, I mean, for how long did you think 3 women could agree on anything together?

..........you mean 3 basenoters.
post #205 of 237
4/12/12 at 3:35pm
I am a long time lurker, and this is my first post. Just to let you know, my two favorite scents are Miller Harris Feuilles de Tabac, and the original Burberry with the faceted bottle and the blue cabachon top.

It sure seems to me that TPC is not to blame for this mess, but they are the one's that are left to clean it up and make sure that customers are taken care of. While it may appear obvious that the ultimate departure of the other two vendors was not unexpected, what seems unexpected is TPC being locked out of the payment account. Obviously, TPC did not plan for that! What is also likely unexpected is to have the other two vendors depart without communicating in advance and not communicating clearly to TPC or the customers what orders have or have not been fulfilled, and leaving the customers guessing as to what is going on. It sure seems like it would be quite unexpected to be left high and dry and holding the bag - don't ya think?! It also sounds like they left the TPC site in a state of disorder, and subsequently left it to TPC to clean up their mess.

So, what would you have TPC do under these circumstances? TPC is making its customer's aware of the situation so that the customer can communicate with Surrender to Chance about the status of their order, and to help the customer know how to go about obtaining a refund from the other two vendors. Doesn't that seem like the right thing to do?!

TPC is the good guy here, and they are to be applauded for taking care of the customers. It is never easy to have to stand up and take responsibility for mistakes made by others, and it is equally unpleasant to have to clean up other people's messes, so the fact that TPC is doing so demonstrates a very high level of commitment and dedication to its customer.

For those who claim to be confused by the TPC email, did you bother to communicate with TPC to find out what is going before running here to whine and complain?? If you did then shame on you for trolling!
post #206 of 237
4/12/12 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurgundyMarsh View Post

Sounds like that famous episode from Mad Men when half the agency decamps with the client list and files to start their own agency. It makes for good TV but this thing just shows the worst possible business practices. The new site must have taken months to set up, must have been done in secret, and deeply compromises customer personal data and confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if law suits follow. I would never do business with any of these people. Customers are never supposed to have personal staff conflicts inflicted on them (ever been to a restaurant where the staff yells at each other in the dining room? Does not encourage return business.) This just suggests the most juvenile and irresponsible attitude toward business.

All the back-biting can't be good for business. The cheerleading for one side or the other is also pretty off-putting.
post #207 of 237
4/12/12 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptic View Post

All the back-biting can't be good for business. The cheerleading for one side or the other is also pretty off-putting.

Indeed. No good customer should have to deal with this sort of thing. I can't say who is to blame, nor, aside from the gossip value, do I care. But, even if two partners absconded shamelessly, the third did bring them into the business, which suggests some poor judgment at the least. Businesses stand or fall on such things.

P.S. It also shows why a partnership is a terrible way to do business.
post #208 of 237
4/12/12 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurgundyMarsh View Post

Indeed. No good customer should have to deal with this sort of thing. I can't say who is to blame, nor, aside from the gossip value, do I care. But, even if two partners absconded shamelessly, the third did bring them into the business, which suggests some poor judgment at the least. Businesses stand or fall on such things.

While I understand that point of view, I'd tend to disagree. TPC ran excellently for years -- when it came to finding all your samples under one roof, especially of hard to obtain things like Lutens Exclusives, TPC was the obvious choice. The customer service was great, the free candies tasty and I never had an issue. It is very common for people's outlooks (and their goals with their business) to shift over the years so the fact two wanted to branch off and start their own is 100% understandable, regardless of what their reason is. The main issue, as I see it, is evident just in reading this thread from start to finish. The problems I see boil down to two key elements

a) unauthorized solicitation of StC using TPC email list
b) StC women not fulfilling orders and/or delaying orders due to their decision to prioritize their time with opening the new website rather than ship orders for customers who already paid

Both speak volumes toward the business ethics of StC, and neither points toward any kind of negligence on the part of TPC (who, I presume, was partially blindsided by the other two taking off in what could be seen as an attempt to cause severe disruptions on TPC's end, another shady thing to do to someone).

All in all we may never know all the facts, but I think there's been enough smoke to warrant pulling the fire alarm on StC. I'll be parting from this thread from now as I really don't see any point in it continuing on, and of course I have no hard feelings toward anyone here. Hopefully everything gets straightened out soon and we can get back to less drama and more perfume!

post #209 of 237
4/12/12 at 6:34pm
Wow, what a mess!
I've been waiting for the dust to settle on this but couldn't help noticing two Basenotes members mentioning on the Surrender to Chance thread in the Internet Shopping forum that they were surprised that their STC order payment came through on c/c statement or paypal email as TPC. Kind of backs up the TPC email about them being unable to access the original TPC payment gateway & having no way of issueing any payment refunds for those customers who may need one from an order placed through TPC during late March.

I find this whole saga very, very sad!
post #210 of 237
4/12/12 at 6:42pm
This habit just got out of hand; I'm going back to meth!
post #211 of 237
4/12/12 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouris View Post

I've placed multiple orders from TPC in the past and I'd love nothing more to support them again but when I see things like this...



..it makes me feel like I'm really being taken advantage of. I received a 1ml sample of this same Kilian fragrance (along with 6 other 1ml samples of my choice) from Aedes for a mere $15 including free shipping, whereas from TPC it'd cost over $30 with shipping for just the one sample. As a customer, how am I not to feel insulted?

Agree. In the last couple of years their prices have just gotten unreasonably high.
post #212 of 237
4/12/12 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouris View Post

I've placed multiple orders from TPC in the past and I'd love nothing more to support them again but when I see things like this...



..it makes me feel like I'm really being taken advantage of. I received a 1ml sample of this same Kilian fragrance (along with 6 other 1ml samples of my choice) from Aedes for a mere $15 including free shipping, whereas from TPC it'd cost over $30 with shipping for just the one sample. As a customer, how am I not to feel insulted?

My understanding is that Aedes is a retailer and as such can purchase the perfumes at wholesale prices, and they also receive free testers and samples. Most decanters have to purchase their perfumes at retail prices. If you are trying to make a living as a decanter, you do the math. Of course Aedes can undersell TPC and other decanters under these circumstances.

You are not being taken advantage by decanters who have to purchase at retail rates. If anything, by your logic, it is Aedes that is taken advantage of you buy selling samples that are meant to be given away for free.
post #213 of 237
4/12/12 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post

You are not being taken advantage by decanters who have to purchase at retail rates. If anything, by your logic, it is Aedes that is taken advantage of you buy selling samples that are meant to be given away for free.

$28/1ml = $400/approx 15ml. That means 15 samples (14.2 technically) at $28 each covers the cost of the $400 bottle. That leaves 35ml (out of a 50ml bottles) to be sold each at $28. That means they are turning nearly $1,000 profit per bottle of Amber Oud. I'll let each individual decide for themselves what they think of that.
post #214 of 237
4/12/12 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

Agreed wholeheartedly. This is akin to saying:

"I am the sole owner of this car, but I don't have the keys to it and can't get inside."

"I am the sole owner of this house, but have no access to it. If you have anything inside my house that belongs to you, you'll have to call the police and file a report, because the people who have taken control of my house won't let me in."

Do you see how STUPID this looks?!

And I'm talking to all three of you TPC / STC women.

This isn't some 'screw up' by some random people doing a decant split as a favor on Basenotes. YOU ARE RUNNING A BUSINESS. Well in fact, two business now.

And you decided to divide that original business, and do it in a way that is not only retarded, but despite what has been said regarding the circumstances of the split - was not done in a professional manner with all the details worked out and consent amongst all the parties.

I have been a business owner my whole life. I have split with partners on multiple occasions, and it has always involved an agreement in writing (whether drafted by an attorney or not) that spells out every conceivable circumstance regarding future operations and liabilities etc.

So I'm sure TPC you would respond to this with "Well, we were not partners, I am the owner, and the other two were just 'vendors' ".

And to that I would say - What business owner on earth with half a mind GIVES CONTROL OF THEIR PAYMENT GATEWAY TO THEIR VENDORS?!?!

This akin to letting the fox watch over the henhouse. Not exactly but - close enough.

If one of you owned the website and the other two controlled the payment gateway, you all are PARTNERS and there is no vendor arrangement there. To then tell people that you can't refund them and their only recourse is to dispute with Paypal or their cc company to get their money back is OUTRAGEOUS, on all your parts.

If there was a possibility of this happening you should have shuttered the TPC until everything was straightened out. And again this goes to the idea of having a smooth transition with pre-agreed upon dates of completion of tasks, and date of launching the new website so that everything is in sync.

If I were drafting the separation agreement there would be language stating - "The STC website will not go live until all outstanding TPC orders have shipped and proof of such in the form of tracking numbers etc has been provided to TPC. Further, STC will still service all prior TPC customers who have a problem with an order to which STC owners provided product, such as product that was damaged in shipping, or product unreceived. STC will thereby provide refunds to those customer through the STC controlled merchant accounts that originally billed those customers and/or - provide additional products/shipment to those customers to rectify the problem".

See how easy that is? Anyone planning a split/division would have accounted for this and 100 other circumstances beforehand, and no customer would ever receive an email telling them that if something is wrong with their shipment they are shit-out-of-luck and have to file disputes with Paypal or the credit card company.

But noooo, this is not about that, it's about butterfiles and unicorns, and taking magic mushrooms in the dessert of Morocco to find spiritual enlightening through fragrance. Customers? Who? Don't bother me with that right now, you're ruining my trip.

Right. So let's see. In YOUR psychedelic fantasy, you would be able to reasonably foresee all of the potential pitfalls and your agreement would prevent STC from starting their website unless and until certain events take place. Moreover, you would shutter your own business and take a huge loss i in lost sales, and potentially lost customers who would great your decision to shutdown with praise. That's a nice fantasy. So, tell us, how would you prevent STC from going off and doing exactly what they did to TPC?

Maybe you would nothing and really let the customers twist in the wind. Besides, TPC did not tell the customers that they are shit-out-of-luck - quite the contrary! It sounds like TPC is making good on the fragrances that the other two were liable for - at TPC's expense. See that, TPC is losing money to try and keep customer happy. But apparently you wouldn't. So, please let everyone know what business you run so we can stay as far away from your business as possible!

Shit happens. The true measure of a person/business is how they respond to it. I, for one, am quite happy with how TPC is dealing with a shitty situation. At least one of the three bothers to care.
post #215 of 237
4/12/12 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post

My understanding is that Aedes is a retailer and as such can purchase the perfumes at wholesale prices, and they also receive free testers and samples. Most decanters have to purchase their perfumes at retail prices. If you are trying to make a living as a decanter, you do the math. Of course Aedes can undersell TPC and other decanters under these circumstances....

I do not know whether Aedes gets their testers free, but I'm sure the glass vials and postage are not free to them- not to mention their time.

If you visit the shop the owners will decant free samples for you (which is more than many retailers do) but I think it is not reasonable to expect them to decant and ship free samples all over the USA without compensation. Their price is very reasonable-- $15 (handling fee) for 7 samples, of which $5 is applicable toward a full bottle purchase.
post #216 of 237
4/12/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouris View Post

$28/1ml = $400/approx 15ml. That means 15 samples (14.2 technically) at $28 each covers the cost of the $400 bottle. That leaves 35ml (out of a 50ml bottles) to be sold each at $28. That means they are turning nearly $1,000 profit per bottle of Amber Oud. I'll let each individual decide for themselves what they think of that.

You're being generous! Don't you think they're buying the 100ml refill bottle for $350? I would. That's $28 for juice that costs $3.50. That's 700% profit less the cost of supplies.
post #217 of 237
4/12/12 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsface View Post

LMAO cbase!~!! Let's see, you've got a grand total of 3 posts on BN, and they're all in this thread. LOL, geee...I wonder who you are, or who you work for, or are related to lol.

And to answer your question regarding this:



Your damn right I would, it's called smart business and good customer service, and keeping your customer base from seeing the behind the scenes nonsense that occurs in business situations like this and furthermore - SUBJECTING the customers to financial consequences and/or inconveniences (such as filing disputes with CC companies) that arise out of situations like this.

And interesting how you ask how I would prevent someone like STC from going off and doing exactly what they did in this case? First I would ask you how you know they went off and did anything? Since according to STC they did so with full notice and mutual consent of TPC.

But to really the answer the question - ANYONE who runs a business, especially a worldwide one on the web with a large customer base that takes in significant amounts of revenue (and I'm talking gross revenue, even if your profit margin is pathetic) has an obligation to themselves and their customer base to make sure that business is rock solid and that starts with rock solid partnerships agreements, shareholder agreements, etc. TPC is registered as an "LLC" according to their website.

An LLC consists of "members" but that is really just another word for partners, as it blends elements of a corporation and partnership. And if I happened to have control of the website, and other members had control of the payment gateway, there would be rock solid language in an agreement somewhere signed and notarized by all parties specifically detailing AT THE START OF THE VENTURE what is allowed and disallowed, and what restriction are to be put upon parties who wish to abscond from the venture in terms of providing ample notice, the use or misuse of brand names and intellectual property data (including the use of customer names, addresses, email addresses, and order/payment history) and on, and on, and on.

And there would be severe financial penalties written into this document for anyone who would choose to abscond with such, enforceable in a court of a law, in the jurisdiction of the infringed upon party, with all attorneys fees and courts going to the party that prevails in such litigation.

So you see, if you've signed your name on a document such as that, in the presence of a notary, you would think long and hard about just up and running with the customer list and vendor merchant account to start a new venture with limited or no notice, because I WOULD OWN YOU - lock, stock, and barrel in any court proceeding inside the USA. If you wanted to escape an agreement like that, you'd have to go to Antigua/Europe/Russia to escape the wrath of me and my attorneys.

If it were my business I would also have well crafted agreements in place. But the fact remains that even if one of the parties breaches the agreement, the damage will occur, and all you can do is try to pick up the pieces and try to make things right for your customers. But it does not look like that is the case here. Either way, things happen. And even if you do sue, it takes time before the case can come to trial.

Meanwhile, the deed is done and the crap continues. Even if you try and get a restraining order, you have to show that in the absence of a restraining order you will suffer irreparable injury and monetary damages are not an inadequate remedy. Of course, you will also have to show that the balance of hardships tips sharply in your favor, and you are more likely than not to prevail at trial. If you cannot make such a showing then you have to wait for your day in court. Tell me again how you will shutter your business for months (or is that now forever?).

The deed is done, and TPC is unfortunately left holding the bag. It sucks to have bad things happen. It sucks even more when people who should know better try and make you look even worse. You have three people trying to make a living. Maybe they are not as business savvy as you, but they try and do the best they can with what they have. So when two of them leave the third person in the lurch, and the third person is left with the business name and customers who need to be taken care, you go and kick the third person while they are down?

For shame. Have you no compassion? Have you no sense of right and wrong, and is it not obvious to you who that is was TPC that was wronged?
post #218 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:17pm
It looks like they all made a hash of things by not communicating better with each other and transitioning tidily with every "t" crossed and "i" dotted before going public. This matter should have been sorted between them without the need for customers to become alarmed or inconvenienced.

I also think its very terribly unfortunate that this situation has become Team StC vsTeam TPC. Customers should not have to be put in a position to question whats going on behind the scenes with this ridiculous back and forth of emails/messages between the two parties- and now the customer service reps in the mix. It should have all come from one source- all three of them united and I suggest they all get together and sort this shit out promptly.
post #219 of 237
4/12/12 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post

...is it not obvious to you who that is was TPC that was wronged?

Nothing is obvious. Either party can say what they would like us to hear but there are two sides to every coin, and I doubt we are being told everything (nor do I want to be told everything.) They ought to sort it out speedily-- and privately.

Meanwhile, it would probably help them both if they did not have to deal with a bunch of new orders right away.
post #220 of 237
4/13/12 at 2:32am
It seems to me that two of the three have their vision of la la land and the remaining one has the feet on the ground.

This is so unfortunate. Shit happens. Under ideal circumstances, sure, everything should have, and would have, set up ideally beforehand. That was not the case.

What matters now, to retain the Good Will without which a business cannot function, is HOW the whole mess gets straightened out.

Too bad.
post #221 of 237
4/13/12 at 3:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursula View Post

It seems to me that two of the three have their vision of la la land and the remaining one has the feet on the ground.

This is so unfortunate. Shit happens. Under ideal circumstances, sure, everything should have, and would have, set up ideally beforehand. That was not the case.

What matters now, to retain the Good Will without which a business cannot function, is HOW the whole mess gets straightened out.

Too bad.

yeah yeah, you're Team TPC, you have made that clear...
post #222 of 237
4/13/12 at 4:22am
Yes, it is true, I sympathize.

However, what the two enterprises need now is exactly what you have suggested, L'eaulita.

To have a meeting to sort things out, and have that meeting the sooner, the better. To have a person present who can see to it that there is "damage control".
post #223 of 237
4/13/12 at 6:00am
Wow bit of a disaster with the payments shame to those who got stung, glad I held off ordering at the time
post #224 of 237
4/13/12 at 7:21am
Anybody ordered samples from STC? Is it working fine?
post #225 of 237
4/13/12 at 9:37am
I'm going to march in and have a little rant at everyone being so cross and beastly. Loads of us have had a lovely and friendly service from TPC over the years and now there is a bit of a mess and a tangle. It obviously isn't intentional and I'm sure there is plenty of hard work and tears going on to keep as many people happy as possible. Who knows what the real story is, but you can bet it isn't very nice for any of them. Please be nice everyone. TPC was made of real humans and I'm sure all glitches will be ironed out for those who need sorting. Just ask nicely.
post #226 of 237
4/13/12 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

I'm going to march in and have a little rant at everyone being so cross and beastly. Loads of us have had a lovely and friendly service from TPC over the years and now there is a bit of a mess and a tangle. It obviously isn't intentional and I'm sure there is plenty of hard work and tears going on to keep as many people happy as possible. Who knows what the real story is, but you can bet it isn't very nice for any of them. Please be nice everyone. TPC was made of real humans and I'm sure all glitches will be ironed out for those who need sorting. Just ask nicely.

Very well put Mumsy, I agree with you 100%.
post #227 of 237
4/13/12 at 9:52am
Mumsy - you said it. Thank you for saying it !
post #228 of 237
4/13/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

I'm going to march in and have a little rant at everyone being so cross and beastly. Loads of us have had a lovely and friendly service from TPC over the years and now there is a bit of a mess and a tangle. It obviously isn't intentional and I'm sure there is plenty of hard work and tears going on to keep as many people happy as possible. Who knows what the real story is, but you can bet it isn't very nice for any of them. Please be nice everyone. TPC was made of real humans and I'm sure all glitches will be ironed out for those who need sorting. Just ask nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiliwia View Post

Very well put Mumsy, I agree with you 100%.



Yay! Thank you, very well said. Glad there are some of us speaking up and showing that not all BNers are so ungracious. I really hope this thread cools down a little.
post #229 of 237
4/13/12 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post

My understanding is that Aedes is a retailer and as such can purchase the perfumes at wholesale prices, and they also receive free testers and samples. Most decanters have to purchase their perfumes at retail prices. If you are trying to make a living as a decanter, you do the math. Of course Aedes can undersell TPC and other decanters under these circumstances.

You are not being taken advantage by decanters who have to purchase at retail rates. If anything, by your logic, it is Aedes that is taken advantage of you buy selling samples that are meant to be given away for free.

Sorry but I have put in my two cents here...

Well, personal experience leads me to believe that not every bottle acquired by either parties is at retail price. Around four years ago, someone from TPC (I can't remember who but I'm not going to any names anyway) wanted to buy a 99% full bottle of Amouage's Ubar EDP from me (original formulation). They tried to haggle with me but I stood my ground. They later came back saying that they found it somewhere else for a cheaper price. Knowing how rare it was, I knew they were playing psychological games with me, in the hope that I caved in. Instead, I just reported the incident to a moderator and later sold it to someone else at the price I commanded. For several months after the incident, I checked to see if TPC had Ubar listed. It never showed up.

However, that hasn't stopped me from doing business with TPC but only when absolutely necessary.
post #230 of 237
4/13/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOONB View Post

Sorry, these sites are a ripoff. I can't see how anyone would keep them in business. Paying $20 for 3 ml of anything is absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfacing View Post

This is quite a gross exageration. If you want to argue about prices being higher than you would like, at least have some fairness and accuracy. Which fragrance are you refering to in particular ? Many fragrances I want to try are $3-5. Which isn't bad, actually.

I like to use some guys on Crystal Flacon Forum, but if they don't have what I want to sample, I check the TPC. Not all of us live in stores with testers in abundance. Actually, alot of the private fragance shops in my city don't have testers for everything. Dept Shops only have classics and the latest releases. And some of us are not old and were not around for all the fragrances lauches.

Well, you asked for it. Here it is, from TPC:

2.5 ML of Serge Lutens' Serge Noir - $19.50 . . . ridiculous price.
8 ML of Boucheron's Jaipur - $15.00 . . . ridiculous price. Okay, it's not 2 ML, but still ridiculous.
2.5 ML of Amouage Memoir Man - $19.00 . . . ridiculous price.
2.5 ML of Creed Selection Verte - $30.49 . . . ridiculous price, and TPC inaccurately says it is discontinued, even though it is no longer discontinued and for sale on the Creed site.
2.5 ML of Malle's Carnal Flower - $22.39 . . . ridiculous price.
2.5 ML of Nasomatto Black Afgano - $109.99 . . . to say this is a ridiculous price is an understatement. Particularly because this isn't even considered one of history's "greats" of contemporary perfumery.
2.5 ML of Yohji Yamamoto's Yohji - $29.75 . . . maybe very hard to find, but please. Absurd price, ridiculous to see it listed like this.
2.5 ML of Sisley's Eau de Soir - $17.25 . . . insane.

The list goes on. As you know, 2.5 ML is a tiny amount of fluid. And I was originally talking about 3 ML quantities - I was being kind.
post #231 of 237
4/13/12 at 2:03pm
Ouch! I've been lucky so far - none of the samples I've wanted have been very expensive ones. I'm a baby perfumista and am very new to the world of sampling, until recently I'd only smelt things that were available in local stores! I do tend to check with the perfume house websites before I look at TPC or similar sites, because I've found that many of the niche houses offer really good value sample/discovery sets which are much cheaper than buying decants. Failing that, I've found that many niche houses will happily send out free samples if I send a polite email.

I think if I wanted a sample and found it cost upwards of $30 I'd come to the boards and see if I could find any leads. I haven't dipped my toe into those waters yet, but might give it a try soon now that I have some samples I can swap.
post #232 of 237
4/13/12 at 3:29pm
What a mess!
post #233 of 237
4/13/12 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOONB View Post

2.5 ML of Nasomatto Black Afgano - $109.99 . . . to say this is a ridiculous price is an understatement. Particularly because this isn't even considered one of history's "greats" of contemporary perfumery.

Just checked TPC site to verify. I'm speechless. How could anyone justify such a gross mark-up?
post #234 of 237
4/13/12 at 4:05pm
I have a point that I would like to make about how the decanted samples are listed and what it means for the price/ml; I don't know if it will make a difference in either company's listing policies but here goes:

The little 1 ml vials only actually hold .7 (or .75) ml, because the cap with its dabber wand displaces volume (and some head space is necessary to allow for expansion during shipment.) If you fill the glass vial to the very brim and leave the cap off, then it holds 1 full ml, but if you expect to cap the vial (and of course they must cap the vial), then you can only put .7-.75 ml into it.

Luckyscent correctly states it samples are .7 ml-- but TPC (and StC now) list them as 1 ml. Buyers are thus led to think they are getting 1 ml of product when in fact they are getting only 70-75% of that. That certainly makes the price per ml higher-- 33-40% higher in fact. (33% higher if there is .75 ml in the vial; 40% higher if there is .7ml in the vial.)

I am making the point about the 1 ml vials and have not tested all the other size decant bottles or atomizers, but I urge both TPC and STC to do so and to state accurately how much juice the buyer is actually going to receive, not the official size of the container minus its sprayer/cap, since the two volumes are not the same.

This probably sounds nit-picky, but I think buyers should know how much they are getting for their money, so they can calculate the real price per ml and decide if the value is good.

And if they choose not to adjust how they list their decants, then the buyer should at least be aware of this discrepancy.
post #235 of 237
4/13/12 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouris View Post

Just checked TPC site to verify. I'm speechless. How could anyone justify such a gross mark-up?

It can't be done with Black Afgano. Their justification: "This has become harder to find and has very limited production." Which translates to: "this isn't widely distributed but it's still available if you know where to look, and it is still in production. So we're asking you to submit to highway robbery for a few drops."

Come on people. This kind of stuff is just stupid.
post #236 of 237
4/13/12 at 5:25pm
3ml of Black Afgano can be yours for $44.96 from StC, so maybe the trainwreck was good for something.
post #237 of 237
4/13/12 at 7:22pm
This thread has gone beyond the discussion of two businesses when it becomes an attack on those businesses and the people who support them. Comments that are inflammatory or are meant to defame are not allowed per forum rules.
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