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ambergris

post #1 of 31
4/9/12 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Oh so ambergris doesn't have a real smell?Didn't know that. I thought it just smells like musk.
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post #2 of 31
4/9/12 at 11:24am
Surprised to see this 3 year old thread active

But yeah ambergris does have a smell. Its kind of waxy and round.
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post #3 of 31
4/9/12 at 12:16pm
In superniche $$$ territory, I would suggest also the oil Molook by Amouage, where ambergris (real, supposedly) is very prominently. Exactly as Pappy was saying, waxy, round, slightly musky, rich, but also with a salty, almost luminous feel.

cacio
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post #4 of 31
4/9/12 at 12:46pm
Like others have said, a number of creeds have this incredible aroma that develops after a number of hours, particularly Bois Du Portugal, Green Irish Tweed and Royal Oud that is probably my favourite thing to smell ever. I have always assumed that to do with the ambegris (synthetic I thought nowadays?) based off what I've read here and elsewhere, although since I have never smelt a sample strip labelled amgeris I may be mistaken.

Given where it comes from it's a surprise it smells of anything other than fishy whale vomit.

Whatever it is, I love it.
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post #5 of 31
4/9/12 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post

Hermes Eau des Merveilles. Its no contest.
This is the closest to the real thing that i have ever smelled.

My second pick would be Creed's Acier Aluminum.

I Love Eau des Merveilles.....GIT, Green Valley and UltraViolet Man!!!
Gary
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post #6 of 31
4/9/12 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario Justiniani View Post

Though there's still a school of thought that believes real ambergris has no odor, it just enhances the scent that it's blended with bringing out the best notes to the fullest.

What school is this? Must be unaccredited. That may be true of hedione or something, but ambergris most certainly has a smell. However, it really comes into its own when blended; this is true of many materials.

My fav ambergris drydowns are

Lancome Programme Homme -- mixed with tons of oakmoss. YUM
Creed Chevrefeuille Original -- mix with honeysuckle leaves and other green notes is KILLER
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post #7 of 31
4/9/12 at 1:35pm
-

It may smell like all kinds of things but salty-creamy-musky within a smoother version of isopropyl alcohol seems to describe it pretty well. Dominique Dubrana calls it “humid, earthy, fecal, marine, algoid, tobacco-like, sandalwood-like, sweet, animal, musky and radiant.”

It’s unlikely that many major perfume companies have used real ambergris in the last thirty years when you're talking about using it in the quantities that it takes to make a regular fragrance to be sold in any quantity at all. Many perfumers, even many of the best best ones, will tell you they’ve never even smelled real ambergris in its most smelly form. From what I understand, Creed uses a combination of synthetic ambergris (Ambroxan - Firmenich, 1950)) and sandalwood (now also synthetic), and has for a long time.

One prominent perfumer recently said that Muscs Koublai Khan resembles the smell/feel of ambergris that he knows best.

As far as I know, all of these are regularly used, often in combinations with other things, as substitutes for real ambergris: Dihydro ambrinol, Ambroxan, Ambreine, Timberal, Grisalva, Karanal, Cetalox, and a wide variety of synthetic Sandalwood bases - Santaliff, Javanol, Polysantol, Firsantol, Ebanol, and a ton of others. I’m sure there are a lot of new ones as so many new synthetic aroma chemicals are coming out all the time from Firmenich, Symrise, IFF, Givaudan, and so many others.

I smell a large number of fragrances that could easily fit the basic idea of "ambergris".
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post #8 of 31
4/9/12 at 1:38pm
Another for Lancome Programme Homme
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post #9 of 31
4/9/12 at 4:36pm
Dubrana's description of real ambergris is unsurprisingly very helpful.
Ambergris has been used in two ways in perfumery. First in tiny quantity it has an impressive effect of blending and smoothing accords together. It also seems to form a base from which projection and evenness are enhanced. even in tiny quantity, I think it can sometimes be detected if the smeller is familiar with its effect

In larger quantity it can have a significant effect on smell. Isabel Doyene's L'Antimatiere under the Les Nez label is an example of natural ambergris in smellable concentration. It remains, however, of somewhat distant nature; present but not large.

Other than this, the big notes in Tauers, Creeds etc are created by ambroxan and similar synthetics which replicate certain aspects of the smell and can create quite an intense effect. Its a pleasing smell and like many synthetics can be used to create bigger and more varied accords than the natural.
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post #10 of 31
4/9/12 at 4:51pm
Eau des merveilles is a very close rendition IMHO . Real ambergris does have a very distinctive aroma , salty smooth sweet and a little faecal
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post #11 of 31
4/9/12 at 5:17pm
Anyone know if amber and ambergris the same thing? I thought ambergris is the stuff that is coughed up and vomit by a whale?
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post #12 of 31
4/9/12 at 5:27pm
Amber is a resin , ambergris is whale up chuck
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post #13 of 31
4/9/12 at 5:31pm
Both of these descriptions are from the Wikipedia article:

Ambergris is a solid, waxy, flammable substance of a dull gray or blackish color produced in the digestive system of and regurgitated or secreted by sperm whales.

"Amber" perfumes may be created using combinations of labdanum, benzoin resin, copal (itself a type of tree resin used in incense manufacture), vanilla, Dammara resin and/or synthetic materials.
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post #14 of 31
4/9/12 at 5:38pm
Ambergris comes from whale puke and Amber is fossilized tree resin
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post #15 of 31
4/9/12 at 6:03pm
having been able to sample perfume grade ambergris a couple of years ago - Harrods Salalah Green is the most realistic i've run across.
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post #16 of 31
4/9/12 at 6:12pm
All the above.
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post #17 of 31
4/9/12 at 9:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pour_Monsieur View Post

Amber is a resin , ambergris is whale up chuck

Love your differentiation!
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post #18 of 31
4/9/12 at 9:28pm
I've heard ambergris specifically mentioned as coming out the back end and not the front end of the whale.

Amber, conversely, is a resin.
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post #19 of 31
4/9/12 at 10:36pm
thank you very much for starting this thread. I have been wondering this for a long time!
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post #20 of 31
4/10/12 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hednic View Post

Another for Lancome Programme Homme

was Programme Homme the first version of Sagamore or they were different ones?
thanks
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post #21 of 31
4/10/12 at 6:42am
Amouage's Molook attar uses a ton of real ambergris and it is one of my favourites!
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post #22 of 31
4/10/12 at 6:58am
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/231...t=#post2443664

Good reads, if you're so inclined.
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post #23 of 31
4/10/12 at 6:59am
Amouage's Molook attar uses a ton of real ambergris and it is one of my favourites!
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post #24 of 31
4/10/12 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post

How about Santal Impérial? People say it's sandalwood and ambergris, but whatever it is, it's good!

+1. I don't know exactly what ambergris smells like. I don't know if Creed uses real ambergris either but whatever house notes that Creed has, I really enjoy. Ambergris is a common note in the Creeds I like.
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post #25 of 31
4/10/12 at 7:34am
oh boy, this one again... here's some info:

http://ayalasmellyblog.blogspot.ca/2...iii-amber.html


http://www.basenotes.net/threads/206...ber-smell-like
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post #26 of 31
4/10/12 at 7:37am
oops, double post.
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post #27 of 31
4/10/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquariuz View Post

was Programme Homme the first version of Sagamore or they were different ones?
thanks

never smelled Sagamore but they sound like different fragrances to me based on the pyramids and reviews.
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post #28 of 31
4/10/12 at 10:13am
Is ambergris- amber fossilized whale puke?
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post #29 of 31
4/10/12 at 2:00pm
GIT gets my vote as well.
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post #30 of 31
4/10/12 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm150 View Post

I don't know if Creed uses real ambergris ......

They don't.

These days no formulas are secret. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry reveals formulas to anyone who's anyone in the perfume industry. All it takes is running a small amount of the juice through a machine and lab technicians can tell you everything in the composition. This is done all the time by all the major aroma chemical companies (Givaudan, IFF, Symrise, Firmenich, etc), perfume houses, etc.

Creed has been using Ambroxan (Firmenich, 1950) and other synthetic ambergris substitutes for a long time. Creed fragrances are generally 80-85% synthetic, the same as most others. But like anything else, there are good synthetics and cheap ones. People need to use plenty of naturals, but IFRA restrictions are making that more difficult all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post

never smelled Sagamore but they sound like different fragrances to me based on the pyramids and reviews.

MB,

Sagamore is a good chypre that smells a lot like a creamier Pour Monsieur. It isn't a big fragrance like Tiffany for Men, which can be thought of as an oriental Pour Monsieur. Sagamore is smooth, although attributing that to any kind of ambergris is difficult, as it is with any Creeds or hundreds of other fragrances. With all of the synthetic bases out there (there's one for almost every ingredient), all kinds of things can be responsible for the feeling or smell of a fragrance.

_

For amber v ambergris, this article is very simple but a decent start: http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...ambergris.html
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post #31 of 31
4/11/12 at 10:33am
Correction: I did have a sample of Sagamore laying around, and I am wearing it today. It is very distinct from Programme Homme. They both share lavender and moss and a certain Lancome balance, but that's about it. Sagamore has a big rosy/geranium floral accord, while Programme is green and herbal, and even more animalic. I think it's ambergris in both, though Sagamore might have civet as well.

I'm very impressed by Lancome's 80s men's offerings. Trophee is genius. (Not sure if it has an ambergris accord though.)
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