Basenotes › Basenotes Forums › Fragrance Discussion › Male Fragrance Discussion › MFD Archive › Jubilation XXV smells different
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Jubilation XXV smells different

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I recently acquired a decant of Jubilation XXV from an individual online (who, I believe, acquired their own full bottle from an online source). I also have an official sample which I've had for a couple of years (kept dark and cool!). When I sniff them one after the other, I cannot help but notice a distinct difference between the two.

The official sample smells more, shall I say, ethereal and transparent; the most obvious difference is a pronounced lower, rounder note in the new bottle (along with a more subdued quality of "golden sunshine" than I get from the original sample). They both smell good, but the juice in the official sample seems to possess a certain magic that is missing or, in any case, less obvious, in the new bottle.

So, what I am wondering is: is the difference most likely due to:

a) natural deviations in smell from one batch of perfume to another due to different-smelling raw materials
b) reformulation of the perfume by Amouage
c) "reformulation" by parties other than Amouage

If anyone here has both an older bottle (and/or sample), and also a newer one, do you notice any difference between the two? Please help me to understand what is going on here.

TIA!
post #2 of 31
Unfortunately I don't own anything but samples of Jubilation XXV, so I won't try to share subjective thoughts about it with you at this moment.

What I can tell you is that you have several variables here including the ones you list, and it could be just one of them (for instance - a reformulation) or a mix of the above, for instance natural deviations in batch as well as reformulation - where you additionally can add for instance storage).

You could try to find out about batches and variations, and then if you have a store near by, go there and check out their bottle and ponder the differences.

Tough cookie, this. Creed is notorious for this, without me having ever noticed it. Then again, I'm new to the game.
post #3 of 31
I sincerely doubt A and C. Could be B.

I have this faint theory that some perfumes smell different after being sprayed into an atomizer.

I have had this happen to me on several occasions.
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post


I have this faint theory that some perfumes smell different after being sprayed into an atomizer.

I agree with this. Original atomizers make smaller drops of liquid in a bigger cloud - and the scent layers differently than from the sample. Could be this. (for example I get much smoky burning wood from a little sampler of Mona's Vanille; from the original bottle the smell is more delicate)
post #5 of 31
I suspect atomizing a fragrance.does change it. At least two things can happen: evaporation and oxidation. I think it would actually be surprising if some aromachemicals were not susceptible to oxidation, and nothing is going to make this happen faster than forming millions of tiny droplets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

I sincerely doubt A and C. Could be B.

I have this faint theory that some perfumes smell different after being sprayed into an atomizer.

I have had this happen to me on several occasions.
post #6 of 31
post #7 of 31
Thread Starter 
Thanks all for the responses!

I suppose that the difference could be due to oxidization; I don't really have enough experience with decants to have an informed opinion on the matter. I shall add, for the synesthetes among us, that the shimmering choir of soprano/treble voices, oboes, and flutes of the original XXV is now rounded out by softly played bass clarinet and bowed contrabass. If I go from the new decant back to the old sample, I find that the smell of the original is overpowered by the new one, and I have trouble even detecting it.

hedonist222: you doubt C, but is it impossible or even unlikely that expensive niche perfumes are being copied? I recently had someone tell me that their TF Tobacco Vanille, full bottle purchased online, had a metallic smell that wasn't there in the sample they sniffed (nor do I detect anything metallic in the bottle I have here). So how do we go about explaining that? I'm sure there are many possibilities, but at this stage of the game is it wise to rule out any of them?

I'm hoping that we'll hear from at least one person who can state that they have smelled XXV from both a few years ago and a 2011 bottle and let us know how they compare.
post #8 of 31
I don't know about reformulation but I had a weird experience with the womens Jubilation where 2 different samples were significantly different, not only in smell but in color. You can read about my experience here:

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/266...5-Reformulated

I even brought it up to Christopher Chong, Amouage's creative director, and he had no idea what was going on (or couldn't/wouldn't tell me, at least).
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliogabalus View Post

Thanks all for the responses!

I suppose that the difference could be due to oxidization; I don't really have enough experience with decants to have an informed opinion on the matter. I shall add, for the synesthetes among us, that the shimmering choir of soprano/treble voices, oboes, and flutes of the original XXV is now rounded out by softly played bass clarinet and bowed contrabass. If I go from the new decant back to the old sample, I find that the smell of the original is overpowered by the new one, and I have trouble even detecting it.

hedonist222: you doubt C, but is it impossible or even unlikely that expensive niche perfumes are being copied? I recently had someone tell me that their TF Tobacco Vanille, full bottle purchased online, had a metallic smell that wasn't there in the sample they sniffed (nor do I detect anything metallic in the bottle I have here). So how do we go about explaining that? I'm sure there are many possibilities, but at this stage of the game is it wise to rule out any of them?

I'm hoping that we'll hear from at least one person who can state that they have smelled XXV from both a few years ago and a 2011 bottle and let us know how they compare.

I didn't rule out. I said I doubt.
post #10 of 31
I know it's not that much help since I can't compare it to an older bottle, but my relatively new bottle of Jubilation XXV is full of piercing woodwinds and sparkling topnotes. When I wear it, I feel like it's lifting the air around me, and it makes good on its name. If there were ever a version with more in its high-end, I would probably think it obnoxious.

It sounds like a pretty simple case of your decant losing its topnotes. It could be as simple as it having been left in the heat or sun for a period of time (or the bottle from which it came).
post #11 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post

... Jubilation XXV is full of piercing woodwinds and sparkling topnotes. When I wear it, I feel like it's lifting the air around me, and it makes good on its name.

Ahh yes indeed! I get that same feeling as well!
post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
SOS: Thank you for pointing me to that thread! (which I would have come across prior to posting had I searched for "jubilation reformulation" rather than "xxv reformulation").

In there, you wrote, I asked Christopher Chong and he said it hasn't been reformulated and that the extrait was never put into sample vials. I don't know what to make of it - the two juices were distinctly different in a way I highly doubt was simply a matter of aging.

Interesting how, in both your case and my own, the most noticeable difference was that one version "has less body but is airier" while the other is "more masculine, deeper, fuller." (BTW, the colour of the juice in both the vials I have here is the same.)

I just sprayed from the two vials onto opposite wrists; they are without any question two variations on a theme, with my (older) official sample exuding in all its splendour that lofty, transcendent, uplifting quality, while the new decant has a more muted top, and definitely something more animalic going on underneath (which may be there, but is integrated into the composition with such superb subtlety in the original that it cannot be so easily distinguished).

I am happy to have this decant of the new stuff, but now I am concerned that it may not be possible to ever acquire what I have in my precious little sample vial. What to do???


hedonist222: You wrote, I didn't rule out. I said I doubt.

Point taken!

Brian: You wrote, my relatively new bottle of Jubilation XXV is full of piercing woodwinds and sparkling topnotes. When I wear it, I feel like it's lifting the air around me

Yes, that's it precisely! I would, however, be surprised if it turned out to be simply a matter of the same original scent in both the vials here having lost its topnotes in one due to age/light/heat. It's like a painting that was all luminescent yellows, oranges, and gold now having, in addition to those in a more muted form, deep burgundy and maroon visible in the background. A writhing human body has been grafted on to those ethereal, lighter-than-air angel's wings.
post #13 of 31
Why don't you go into a store and put some on directly from a bottle?
post #14 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post

Why don't you go into a store and put some on directly from a bottle?

Doing so at the moment is not so easy, but I now realize (given the evidence we have that there seems to be--for whatever reason--a lack of consistency in the nature of the juice that winds up in bottles or vials of J25/XXV) that that might be the only way to go if I only want to get a full bottle that smells just like what is in my sample vial, rather than another version of the same fragrance.
post #15 of 31
For me, countless perfumes smell different when transferred to an atomizer. Is it the contact with air for a few seconds after you spray them in the atomizer and before you seal it? or reaction to the atomizer itself? Actually I've noticed that with cheaper atomizer the scent changes significantly, so another variable you could add it the juice reacting to the atomizer itself since alcohol and many of aroma chemical compounds are "strong" and can easily react with certain types of plastic. I've once had an atomizer that was made of cheap glass like plastic and white plastic for the "head" of it...the head actually melted! needless to say the expensive perfumes I put into it smelt like crap. So I expect them to have an effect on the smell of the juice unless they are made of real glass or good quality plastic.

But there are countless variables, the most three likely I believe are: Batch variation, reaction with air or oxidization, and reaction with the atomizer itself.
post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekove View Post

For me, countless perfumes smell different when transferred to an atomizer. Is it the contact with air for a few seconds after you spray them in the atomizer and before you seal it? or reaction to the atomizer itself? Actually I've noticed that with cheaper atomizer the scent changes significantly, so another variable you could add it the juice reacting to the atomizer itself since alcohol and many of aroma chemical compounds are "strong" and can easily react with certain types of plastic. I've once had an atomizer that was made of cheap glass like plastic and white plastic for the "head" of it...the head actually melted! needless to say the expensive perfumes I put into it smelt like crap. So I expect them to have an effect on the smell of the juice unless they are made of real glass or good quality plastic.

But there are countless variables, the most three likely I believe are: Batch variation, reaction with air or oxidization, and reaction with the atomizer itself.

Interesting. I believe that in this case, anyway, it has not so much to do with the quality of the decant's atomizer as one can clearly distinguish between the two versions by merely sniffing at the nozzle (without actually spraying).
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post

I don't know about reformulation but I had a weird experience with the womens Jubilation where 2 different samples were significantly different, not only in smell but in color. You can read about my experience here:

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/266...5-Reformulated

).

I've had the exact experience with lyric.
post #18 of 31
My best friend wore this today. Smelled it for the first time, and boy oh boy did that project on him. I could smell it everywhere.
post #19 of 31
I've been reading The Perfect Scent, and there is quite a lot of talk about the extent to which Hermès goes to keep samples from either reacting to their vials (esp. if they're plastic, which I believe the Amouage are) or getting cooked because they have little control over the temperatures during transit and storage at various retail operations. This could be a factor as well.
post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hednic View Post

My best friend wore this today. Smelled it for the first time, and boy oh boy did that project on him. I could smell it everywhere.

You can easily take someone out with the strength of this fragrance! It is definitely one of my favorites.
post #21 of 31
Perhaps I'm wrong but I assumed any fragrance that used any natural materials had the capacity to fluctuate from batch to batch simply due to the fact that naturals themselves vary in a multitude of ways (seasonal changes, location, harvest method, distillation processes, etc). I was very much under the assumption that most designer fragrances are virtually entirely synthetic (how else can they eventually wind up being sold for $20 bucks a bottle at Ross? Someone is still pulling in profit from those even at those bargain bin prices.)

I also assume the darker/more color there is to the juice (barring synth colors ala Lutens), the greater the presence of naturals are. So the way I see it, the darker the juice, the more prone it is to have batch variations.

Could anyone elaborate or am I way off?
post #22 of 31
If the bottle you have bought smells good (which I think it does from what you have said) don't worry yourself with small differences that could be due to any number of factors. Just enjoy it!
post #23 of 31
With a decant, there is also the possibility that the new bottle wasn't entirely clean...

I have sometimes noticed variation between original bottles of fragrances, which I have generally attributed to oxidization. It is possible that there is some batch variation too, though I'm sure most manufacturers go to great lengths to ensure consistency.
post #24 of 31
double post
post #25 of 31
Creed takes so much heat for this. But I've noticed it in several niche companies now.
post #26 of 31
Keep in mind that the OP is comparing a sample vial and a decant. I don't think anyone has complained of Jubilation XXV bottles being off. I have a new one, and it does not exhibit the muted top notes that the OP describes.
post #27 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraghead View Post

If the bottle you have bought smells good (which I think it does from what you have said) don't worry yourself with small differences that could be due to any number of factors. Just enjoy it!

I am not too worried about the smell of this decant not being the same as that of the official sample, but if I do purchase a whole bottle, I really would like to be certain that it will smell like the original rather than what I have now. i've been wearing XXV the last few days, and of course it's still beautiful, but the frankincense (and cinnamon?) notes that give a certain sparkle and élan and make the nostrils flare (to suck in more of the stardust...) are simply too weak compared to the original. (Since frankincense is involved, could this be due to changes made to conform to EU regulations, after all? But then I remember you, Brian, with your new bottle that sounds just like the XXV I knew and loved...)
post #28 of 31
I still think it's your best bet to find a bottle in a store and spray it on. And if you buy something there that does not smell like the sample, you can easily return it.
post #29 of 31
This has me a little concerned now. I've taken several of my fragrances and decanted them into glass atomizers for travel, etc. If this is compromising my fragrances, I would definitely stop doing it. I haven't really noticed a difference in the scents to date.
post #30 of 31
I am interested in doing a double-blind test of atomized vs. non-atomized to find out if differences can be detected or not. My hypothesis is that differences can be detected. My suspicion is that it's only true of certain scents.
post #31 of 31
I'd say trying to test a full bottle would be the best way to determine what you're getting into with a purchase. It was rather disappointing for me to discover that my mini sample of de la Morandiere's Gengis Khan isn't quite the same as the full bottle it inspired me to buy. In this case, it was because the mini splash is 85% alcohol, while the full bottle natural spray was 90%, though both are EdT... the higher concentration of the mini is way spicier, longer lasting, and rich.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: MFD Archive
Basenotes › Basenotes Forums › Fragrance Discussion › Male Fragrance Discussion › MFD Archive › Jubilation XXV smells different