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What matters most - the juice or the name ?

post #1 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
There was a thread about rumors about MONTALE and who is the creator, the owner and what not ...

What does it matter ? Do you really feel deceived ? Has now "the Emperor been stripped of his clothes" and all the glamour attached to a name like "MONTALE" is gone ?

Who cares ?

I bought my decant of MONTALE Aoud Lime from The Perfumed Court, and all I need to know is the price of that decant and how good (or mediocre) the juice from that vessel smells.

Stripped of all advertising, metal bottles, created for royalty ... who cares ?

The MONTALE Aoud Lime smells fresh and almost cologne like, it is very wearable. To chase after a full bottle ? Probably not. There are countless other scents in the market.
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post #2 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:21am
I am always suspicious of house that releases more than 3 scents per year, about nobility fables, I often find them to be pretty much silly.
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post #3 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:24am
I'm really only interested in the perfume.
That said, nobody likes being lied to.
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post #4 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonoanimoes View Post

about nobility fables, I often find them to be pretty much silly.

Agree.
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post #5 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursula View Post

There was a thread about rumors about MONTALE and who is the creator, the owner and what not ...
What does it matter ? Do you really feel deceived ? Has now "the Emperor been stripped of his clothes" and all the glamour attached to a name like "MONTALE" is gone ?
Who cares ?
I bought my decant of MONTALE Aoud Lime from The Perfumed Court, and all I need to know is the price of that decant and how good (or mediocre) the juice from that vessel smells.
Stripped of all advertising, metal bottles, created for royalty ... who cares ?
The MONTALE Aoud Lime smells fresh and almost cologne like, it is very wearable. To chase after a full bottle ? Probably not. There are countless other scents in the market.

Interesting topic

To put it bluntly, I care.

I mean of course, the juice is ultimately more important than the name, but saying "who cares?" appears rather dismissive on your part.
It feels as if you view perfumes as mere commodities with no regard for their creators, which is a shame.
It's like saying "who cares if Picasso painted this, or Rodin sculpted that"
(you'll find that buyers of such pieces care very much indeed )
This, of course, only applies to authored fragrances.
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post #6 of 26
5/4/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon View Post

Interesting topic

To put it bluntly, I care.

I mean of course, the juice is ultimately more important than the name, but saying "who cares?" appears rather dismissive on your part.
It feels as if you view perfumes as mere commodities with no regard for their creators, which is a shame.
It's like saying "who cares if Picasso painted this, or Rodin sculpted that"
(you'll find that buyers of such pieces care very much indeed )
This, of course, only applies to authored fragrances.

These are such interesting points and it's very relevant to a philosophy of art class I'm taking so I'm gonna break it down for myself a little bit. The way I see it, we're looking at different levels of fragrance appreciation.

Level 1- I don't really care about the scents, I just want to smell good

Level 2- I want to do more than smell good, I want to care about the fragrances and appreciate notes. I want to know more about them than the layman and maybe even curate a collection.

Level 3- I'm so interested in fragrances as works of art. Things like history, craftsmanship, and in this case the maker of the fragrance all contribute to the aesthetic quality of scents.
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post #7 of 26
5/4/12 at 10:37am
only the perfume matters to me, dont care who made it, dont care what your history was, if its high quality and smells good il buy it.
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post #8 of 26
5/4/12 at 10:48am
Nicely and succinctly observed icanzapyou (like your forum name btw )
Where do you position yourself?
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post #9 of 26
5/4/12 at 10:58am
Interesting. I think I agree with Mr. Icanzapyou; I can appreciate the art and craft of perfumery. The fact that Andy Tauer seems like such a right-on and cool guy definitely makes me feel better about the fact that I like LADDM or Lonestar Memories. It adds something. But if I didn't like the perfume, Mr. Tauer's right-onnery wouldn't change that. Myths about the pedigree of Montale or Creed don't make me want to wear them. In the end it's about the smell.
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post #10 of 26
5/4/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon View Post

Nicely and succinctly observed icanzapyou (like your forum name btw )
Where do you position yourself?

Thanks so much, I appreciate it! I'm definitely bordering between Level 1 and level 2, nowhere near knowledgeable enough for level 3 yet. Maybe one day, when I have money!
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post #11 of 26
5/4/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagey View Post

Interesting. I think I agree with Mr. Icanzapyou; I can appreciate the art and craft of perfumery. The fact that Andy Tauer seems like such a right-on and cool guy definitely makes me feel better about the fact that I like LADDM or Lonestar Memories. It adds something. But if I didn't like the perfume, Mr. Tauer's right-onnery wouldn't change that. Myths about the pedigree of Montale or Creed don't make me want to wear them. In the end it's about the smell.

This is a very good example. Of course, I would never buy a fragrance, just for the name. I have had, and tested a lot of Big names, or how would I say, famous houses, and don't like them just for the name. Some of them are wonderful, and suit me, others are not. Andy Tauer, as we both know, gives the chance to sample his fragrances, and he has no strings attached. If you love it, you buy it. I have been sad in some cases, that I couldn't love a particular perfume, as the rave reviews are so tempting. But it boils down to one thing for me, and always has., if I love it, then I will buy it, regardless of the name etc.
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post #12 of 26
5/4/12 at 1:19pm
The juice is what matters, but in the case of Montale...I wish I knew the whole story, or what was what. I'd be more inclined to give my money to the people who deserve it. Weird situation! Like someone made a whole line of knockoffs...presumably.
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post #13 of 26
5/6/12 at 12:34pm
I care only about the scent.
If the bottle is great and collectable, i like it too and may get it.
Name, or lack thereof, is of no matter.
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post #14 of 26
5/12/12 at 5:52pm
The juice for me. Names don't impress me at all.
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post #15 of 26
5/12/12 at 7:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanzapyou View Post

These are such interesting points and it's very relevant to a philosophy of art class I'm taking so I'm gonna break it down for myself a little bit. The way I see it, we're looking at different levels of fragrance appreciation.

Level 1- I don't really care about the scents, I just want to smell good

Level 2- I want to do more than smell good, I want to care about the fragrances and appreciate notes. I want to know more about them than the layman and maybe even curate a collection.

Level 3- I'm so interested in fragrances as works of art. Things like history, craftsmanship, and in this case the maker of the fragrance all contribute to the aesthetic quality of scents.

That I said in my first post, rather dismissively, "who cares" is something of a defense mechanism, because it takes work to get through to perfume appreciation. And with the bombardment of advertisements and being humanly impressionable, this is my first reaction.

I do appreciate the introduction to various levels of appreciation as icanzapyou enumerates. Time permitting and funds allowing, I would be anxious to place my liking on Level 2.

There are probably scents that are works of art (Level 3). Those which are now kept in the Osmotheque. Not available for sniffing.
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post #16 of 26
5/13/12 at 11:34am
To me: the juice. Simply because so many great scents come with unassuming names and quite a few promising names are not rising up to the promise.
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post #17 of 26
5/13/12 at 12:10pm
What's the rumor with Montale, I've missed something.

The juice. But. If a brand markets itself or the juice in a bad enough fashion, I will avoid the juice no matter its qualities.
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post #18 of 26
5/13/12 at 1:29pm
I guarantee that the name influences 90% of people and alters perceptions and expecations.

Example: A new MFK scent is announced with 'orange blossom, amber, and cedar' - people go "wow, that sounds amazing. Can't wait" etc.

A new Gucci (Guilty) for men is announced with notes of 'lime, lavender, pink pepper, neroli, orange blossom, cedar and patchouli' - people go "sounds lame. Sounds like another banal fresh scent." etc.

I see this kind of thing all the time here. It doesn't bother me as much as it amuses and intrigues me.
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post #19 of 26
5/13/12 at 2:26pm
Whether its by Montale or Tanelli , if the juice is good then what difference does the name make
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post #20 of 26
5/13/12 at 2:26pm
I was wearing Dark Aoud today (which I bought before the Montale/Tanelli affair came to light) and it's still pretty darn good. No matter if it was composed by Montale or Kermit the Frog...
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post #21 of 26
5/13/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursula View Post

There was a thread about rumors about MONTALE and who is the creator, the owner and what not ...

What does it matter ? Do you really feel deceived ? Has now "the Emperor been stripped of his clothes" and all the glamour attached to a name like "MONTALE" is gone ?

Who cares ?

I bought my decant of MONTALE Aoud Lime from The Perfumed Court, and all I need to know is the price of that decant and how good (or mediocre) the juice from that vessel smells.

Stripped of all advertising, metal bottles, created for royalty ... who cares ?

The MONTALE Aoud Lime smells fresh and almost cologne like, it is very wearable. To chase after a full bottle ? Probably not. There are countless other scents in the market.

This stuff is not entirely silly but mostly entertaining illusion and fable. Did Creed really perfume Empress Eugenie and did she have more taste in fragrance than Second Empire decor might suggest? Did Jean-Paul Guerlain really base his first fragrance on his gardiner? Well, it makes a nice story.

With the many mergers, sales, spin-offs, take-overs, ousters, and reconstitutions, few perfume lines are really very close to what they pretend to be and some (Houbigant, for example) are almost entirely bogus. This is true of most of the fashion industry.

Dark Aoud is still wonderful though.
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post #22 of 26
5/14/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post

I guarantee that the name influences 90% of people and alters perceptions and expecations.

Example: A new MFK scent is announced with 'orange blossom, amber, and cedar' - people go "wow, that sounds amazing. Can't wait" etc.

A new Gucci (Guilty) for men is announced with notes of 'lime, lavender, pink pepper, neroli, orange blossom, cedar and patchouli' - people go "sounds lame. Sounds like another banal fresh scent." etc.

I see this kind of thing all the time here. It doesn't bother me as much as it amuses and intrigues me.

But isn't this a case of branding? As in, MFK has built a brand and reputation with fragrances of a certain quality (whether in the actual materials of the fragrance or in the artistry/conception), versus Gucci which is its own brand and has its own reputation. People do learn from the generalisation.

I think we have to further explore this. Non-perfumistas will see Gucci and think of it as a luxury brand and will buy its perfumes because they associate Gucci with quality, luxury products, because in general, Gucci is exactly that compared to mass-market fashion brands etc.

On the other hand, perfumistas has learnt from experience that Gucci is not so exciting a perfume house, based on their experience of previous scents released (some good, some not so good, the most recent being rather banal and forgettable). But ultimately, it is still about the juice, isn't it? The name is just a short-cut to help make life easier for us to process the vast amount of data (and thousands of fragrance releases a year) out there.
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post #23 of 26
5/14/12 at 8:45am
Thread Starter 
The manufacturers should do more often a blind test with a focus group. That focus group could be any consumer not really educated, AND people like here who have a certain degree of experience. Each person of the focus group fills out a questionnaire listing their background credentials.

Then - a blind test.

Then - tabulate the results.

After the results of that first blind test, the manufacturer can still decide what exact hype they want to build up. Because hype it is. I kid you not.
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post #24 of 26
5/14/12 at 9:22am
Personally I'm always interested in the history, gossip or lore behind almost anything I purchase.

Who made it, what year it came out, what country it came from, how much the maker decided they could charge for the stuff...

I find that all those things ad an added extra dimension of interest to any of the things I'm involved with in my life.

So yes, while it's the smell that counts, I'm simply not in the same camp as those who imply that those other things are of little interest to them.

I'd be lying if I said that those other details were not fascinating to me too.
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post #25 of 26
5/15/12 at 2:43am
This is an interesting discussion, because although one would apparently only care for the scent when wearing it because no-one can see the bottle or the creator. It cannot be that simple.

When choosing it or making a decision, then these other influences come into play whether we want them or not. How much serious consideration would you give the new release from Boots chemist in relation to a new Hermes number? Would you be less or more likely to seek the former? Whether the juice is better or not.

This is usually highlighted very well in the blind sniff game. Three frags get sniffed without the labels or the hype and some surprising results happen.

The probability is that someone like Hermes or Guerlain will have invested more in the product than Boots chemist will have. The result will probably be much better, so the creator and name do have a reasonable chance of mattering quite a great deal. However with the acceptance now of so many new and niche houses, then the hype and advertising serves the same purpose as previous long standing good reputations did. Would you honestly seek or even know about the frag without either?
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post #26 of 26
5/15/12 at 3:35am
Thread Starter 
Mumsy said, "would you honestly seek or even know about the frag without either?"

That is true. The label and the reputation sticks with the bottle. The price tag can vary. Although the connotation of a high price may automatically place the object on a higher rung of the ladder.

As a side thought - supposing the name of a perfume manufacturer were viciously badmouthed on a public forum like here ... There may be legal protection against that. Now, if only the juice matters, what difference would libel or slander make ? None, because no matter what vessel the juice came in, or what name it has on the label, only the quality of the juice would matter, and the product would still be sought after and bought. In real life, that is not so. A tarnished reputation will result in less sales. This is just a side thought.
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