The Secret of Nick-less Wet Shaving Appears to be...............

......... olive oil, or any vegetable oil, or even hair conditioner - applied as a pre-shave oil.

Several days ago I used the first shaving cream that let really me down - Arko Regular shaving cream. Using a Gillette Superspeed, I speedily got 6 or 7 nicks including two that wouldn't stop bleeding, despite repeated application of Alum and witch hazel. On the one hand I was darn annoyed. On the other hand, well, here was a reason to finally test whether that bottle of Art of Shaving Pre-shave oil I'd bought actually worked.

So, nearly two days later when my face had partially recovered, I applied a tiny amount of the Pre-Shave oil all over my face, then applied the Arko cream with a brush, as I'd done before, and shaved with a Feather razor. The result was that I got no nicks at all, and no aggravation whatsoever of my previous wounds from two days earlier.

Noting that olive oil used as pre-shave oil appears to have a small following at Blade &Badger, today I repeated the experiment using a small amount of Extra Virgin olive oil, the Arko cream and the Gillette SuperSpeed. Again, the result was no nicks. In both this case and that of the AOS pre-shave oil, it seemed obvious to me by feel alone that the razor was having an easier time cutting the whiskers.

Plainly, there is no real reason to use the pre-shave oil if one already has an extremely slippery shaving cream like Trumpers, or a good soap and good preparation, or a slippery non-lather lotion like Jack Black Beard Lube. But in the case of the more average creams and soaps, or where preparation with the soap may not be as good as it could be, then the use of pre-shave oil should in my opinion, be given strong consideration.

I note that when I raised this over at B&B, one respondent claimed he got better results than olive oil using hair conditioner of the type that hydrated hair (rather than the type that gives it a sheen). Others were using jojoba oil or grapeseed oil.

Regards,
Renato

P.S. Update: I used the AOS Pre-shave oil with Trumper shaving cream. The result was a shave pretty much the same as with the Arko cream and AOS Pre-shave oil - which was good, but not as good as using the Trumpers cream by itself. The Trumpers cream had lost its ultra slippery character which makes it so much better than the rest.

To summarise, pre-shave oil can thus improve performance of average creams, but may reduce performance of superior creams.

P.P.S. Update 2: In my Update post below I describe buying the mildest razor on the planet which had no trouble delivering a nickless shave with the troublesome Arko cream.

The reviews of Proraso pre-shave seem quite mixed at B&B, some think it's great, others think it does nothing. I suspect it's because the two groups are using different soaps and creams, those with the lesser ones noting how Proraso improves things, those with the better ones not noticing much difference. I like the smell of Proraso, it would be better than the smell of olive oil.
Cheers,
Renato

Believe me, it's no gimmick.

The real gimmick is "razor burn relief". I've tried plenty of creams and lotions that were supposed to provide that relief, but their effectiveness was usually pretty minimal - better than nothing, but not much better than average moisturiser.
Regards,
Renato

My old Remington foil shaver (the "shave as close as blade or your money back" one) gave me shocking razor burn too after two or three weeks of use. I had to switch to a Philips rotary head one to stop it.
Renato

Witch hazel works fine for minor razor burn, but even it won't do much for red raw razor burn on me (which fortunately I am getting a lot less of now).
Renato

I had the same problem as you, it very bad with my Remington foil shavers, not as bad with my Philips rotary with fixed cutters (i.e not the cutters that flex to follow your face curves) and not as bad in the even earlier Remington Lektro shavers.

I did use Mennen Electric Pre-Shave lotion and the Remington Pre-Shave stick (powdery stuff you put all over your face) when I was having problems with electric shavers. But they didn't work that well for me. I finally solved the problem for me by using a soap that dries your skin out - Johnson& Johnson Clean and Clear Soap bar (the Clean &Clear liquid soap didn't work) and the medicated Sapoderm soap. Then I'd wait five minutes for my face to dry and then electric shave.

Not only was razor-burn and ingrown hairs reduced to near zero, but the life of my cutters increased from 6 months to three years or more. At the three year mark they still cut without irritation but they just took too long. However, when I transferred the very used cutters to the newer Philips flexible head shaver, they were terrible - which means that I'd probably only get a year and a half to two years out of them in the newer designed shavers.
Cheers,
Renato

Does your Speick AS splash have anything it to moisturise the skin like the Mennen Skin Bracer and Trumper splashes have? Or is it a standard alcohol one?
Regards,
Renato

Thanks, it sounds really interesting. I just checked Ebay and unfortunately the postage cost is greater than the actual aftershave. I'll keep an eye out for it on my next trip to Europe.
Cheers,
Renato

Thanks. Not only does he carry Speick, he also carries Parker razors that I haven't found anybody else here carrying.
Renato

It hasn't gummed up my wild boar brushes, but I haven't tried it with my badger brushes yet. I'm not particularly worried, since soap is basically a detergent, and it shouldn't have much trouble cleaning away some drops of vegetable oil.
Regards,
Renato

I can't smell either olive oil or the AOS oil afterwards - maybe you will. There's usually lots of bits of shaving soap I wash off after shaving, and I think that does a good job of getting rid of any residual oil that hasn't been razored off.

Anyhow, it can't hurt if you give it a go once with whichever oil you have in your kitchen. If you don't like any residual smell, a bit of extra soap gets rid of it.
Regards,
Renato

The NO PRESSURE is a given for Double Edge shaving - but I guarantee you my Weishi 2003M will deliver me six good nicks no matter how light I'm doing it. But you do have to apply some pressure for cartridge shaving.

Blades do certainly vary. Finding the right one (or the most forgiving one) for a particular razor is no easy task though. I've got 7 O'clock Blue, but have never seen the Black.
Cheers,
Renato

The investment in time and money - namely going to the kitchen and getting a couple of drops of whatever oil you are cooking with - is ultra-minuscule.

My original post relates to how to improve the performance of soaps and creams that one may have which are not performing well with one's equipment. Why throw them out and buy better ones, if they can be made to perform?
Regards,
Renato

I've never shaved in a shower in my life.
And I don't shave after a shower either- what's the point? I'd be going to bed straight afterwards.
Cheers,
Renato

I thought women shaved in the shower just so they could leave disposable razors hanging round the bottom of my shower.

Seriously though, it doesn't fit in with my routine - shower at night, shave in the morning.
And it still seems weird to me - nude shaving!
Cheers,
Renato

Yes, I don't really follow the bowl lathering business except where one has an actual puck of soap in a bowl. I'm always surprised at B&B where some people seem to be bowl lathering with creams and soap sticks, where face lathering seems the extremely simple and effective way to go to me.

Interesting that you mention loading a brush. Yesterday I posted on B&B about not being able to get good lather out of a L'Occitane Cade soap puck, compared to a Tabac or Truefitt &Hill soap puck. The response from one chap was to only wet half the brush. I followed his advice, and added to it by changing from badger to boar, and I got excellent lather out of the previously annoying puck.

You are right, what makes shaving fun is the variables. This in turn means having to keep some variables constant in order to check the effect of others. One variable I like to keep constant is shaving cream when I test a new razor or razor/blade combination, and for convenience I settled on Trumpers shaving cream as the constant in such evaluations. Much to my astonishment, my new and most expensive razor, a Weber DLC, performed in a very sub-average fashion with Trumpers, but worked much better with Cade soap. I didn't think such a thing was possible, but that razor with a Gillette Super Thin blade (another constant) wouldn't shave hair off my face properly. Instead it needed a very sharp Feather blade and no Trumpers to deliver a mild shave.
Cheers,
Renato

Update 2.

My new Weber DLC razor is the mildest of razors I've come across. It is so mild that it wouldn't cut whiskers properly when I used a Gillette Super Thin blade and my most slippery cream, Trumpers. Nor did it do a good job with an Astra SP or Feather blade when used with the Trumper's shaving cream. But using it with the supposedly unforgiving and super sharp Feather blade, and my worst performing shave cream - the Arko Regular which had given me lots of nicks (as described in my Original Post above) - it gave me a great close shave. I can't imagine anything performing more mildly than this. It feels more like a cartridge razor than a DE razor to me.

It should be noted that the descriptions given by others at Blade & Badger about the performance and aggression of the Weber DLC are totally different from how I describe mine. I strongly suspect that my one from the current batch is different from theirs. The B&B blade gap table state the Weber DLC has a blade gap of 24 thousandths of an inch, whereas I measure mine to be a milder 22 thousandths of an inch.

Anyone wanting a mild razor might want to consider getting a Weber DLC from the current production being sold. Who knows if it will still be as mild after the next production run?
Regards,
Renato

P.S. It occurs to me that my Lord 122 (aka L5) Tech head type razor was also a poor performer with Trumpers shaving cream, in a very similar fashion to the Weber - but I haven't explored it the way I have the Weber DLC yet. Perhaps that makes it the mildest of the budget razors.

Upgrading razors!

I already have the Merkur 25C, 333C and 45 and the Weber DLC, and a Merkur 37C on the way. The only way I'd get to spend more on them is by going for Merkur Adjustables, or the high end Feather razor. But I can't see the point of going to adjustables, as I'd mainly be leaving them on the lowest settings.

Tallow soaps have been a bit of a let down for me so far - I was expecting more from them than what I got.
Cheers,
Renato

It's interesting that the two guys who post on Basenotes share the same view that the Weber is really mild (I was starting to think it was just my DLC from this current batch). Over at B&B people are describing their Webers as being as aggressive (if not more aggressive) as the Merkur 34C and Jagger DE89. This is very puzzling to me, as plainly my Weber is milder than a Gillette Tech - and that is a very nice mild razor.

You're right about no irritation - I run an alum block over shaved skin, and there are few if any stings from invisible nicks, of the type I get from other razors.

As for the oil, it's a few drops added after the face has been wetted. And there are shaving oils where they are the only thing used for shaving (e.g King of Shaves), as opposed to pre-shave oils. And it certainly works for soap/ creams that are less than fully effective relative to others.
Cheers,
Renato

Is that the Somersets "Original Shaving Oil", which I bought the other day but haven't tried yet - or do they have a specific pre-shave oil as well?
What you describe though is pretty similar to my experience with oil and the poorer performing (on me) creams that I've tried.

The Somersets face scrub is interesting, being the most lathery one I've come across, I'm almost tempted to try shave with it.
Cheers,
Renato

Yes, it's supposed to be used straight - without soap. So if you use it in conjunction with soap, well then as you are using two things that are meant to be good by themselves, you'd expect to get something better than using the two alone, as you have now found out.

It'll be interesting to see when I get around to it, whether the Somersets improves my troublesome Arko cream any better than the straight olive oil does. Theoretically it should, but perhaps there is certain level of improvement an oil can get to, and then go no further.

I also own Jack Black Beard Lube, which is a latherless gel that works really well. One chap at B&B was adamant that if one uses a tiny amount (i.e. a lot less than for a full shave) as a pre-shave, it too accentuates the properties of any shaving soap or cream that is put over it.

I have a lot of experiments to do, and at one a day, it is taking me a long time to get through them.
Regards,
Renato

Thanks. As I said to Primrose above, I just can't get my head around "nude" shaving - do you have some kind of fog-free mirror, or do you do it by feel alone (which I know I can't do)?
Cheers,
Renato

Well, you know my views - for me it's a very mild razor when coupled with the sharpest of blades. Clearly this makes it handy for mild shaves, or for a second shave on the day, or for people who use multiple razors and like a mild one on second and third passes. Also, it seems to be very handy with the poorer performing soaps, lather and creams, while not being much good with what I would otherwise have considered to have been my best cream.

But others have very different views, check out the last Weber Lovers chorus at Blade & Badger,
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...r-Lovers-Unite!
where I show up with a little bit of discord.
Cheers,
Renato

P.S. On the other hand, if you hunt around Ebay for around $15 each you can get new razors like the Lord 1822LP (with Merkur type head aka L6), Feather Popular (got mine from Singapore), Wilkinson Sword Classic ($10) and a second hand Gillette Tech (mine is from 1956) - all of which I really like using too - and have change left over compared to buying a Weber.

I would classify you as a very advanced shaver, way beyond my league.
Cheers,
Renato

Thanks for the explanation.
Those parts around sideburns I could do. But the area above and below the lips I would never attempt without a mirror - it's hard even with a mirror!
Cheers,
Renato

Did you try using the shave oil with cartridge razors as well as with DE?

Interesting that you like the Derby blades - at B&B they're often rubbished, but just as often some people say they really like them.

Have you tried the Derby shave stick? Fantastic lather, great shave from it, but the absolute worst scent in a shave soap I've ever come across.

While I'm mainly using DE, I still think various cartridge razors have a lot to offer, and may well be the most suitable razor type for some people. Down here in Australia there is one store currently selling a SuperMax 3-blade cartridge razor, with 11 cartridges for $2. Which is quite competitive with DE blades.

I'm still nicking myself while I keep testing new soaps and creams, as it's pointless testing them with pre-shave oil in the first instance. Today, it was E-shave soap that gave me the nicks, using two relatively mild DE razors that rarely deliver nicks. Interestingly, when I did read the advertising for the E-shave soap, it did in fact say to use pre-shave oil with it.
Regards,
Renato

Good points.

I tend to just do 2 minutes with the lather - but I always make thick pasty lathers. Some of the lathers they post at B&B look way too airy for me. I've noticed that with some soap pucks, badger brushes are a bit of a waste of time trying to get thick lather. Fortunately, boar brushes do a better job on those harder soaps. Brush type doesn't matter with creams though.

It's tricky when switching between cartridge and DE. Most DE razors are best without pressure (with the exception of my Weber DLC and Big Roc razors), but cartridges require some pressure. It's easy to forget the no-pressure when switching back to DE.
Regards,
Renato

Interesting about the hard water. I've been to places where it took half a bottle of shampoo to get the same amount of foam as normally would take a little bit in the palm of my hand. Fortunately, I don't have that issue where I live so can only ponder the effect on various have creams. But I do tend to use boar brushes more than badger brushes - in part because they work better with some soaps, and in part because one can give one's face a bit of a pummeling massage in the process.

As to effect of shaving on skin, it's interesting when one meets women one only sees occasionally - as they are more observant of skin - and get their unsolicited comments. As happened yesterday, when one friend commented on how good my face skin was suddenly looking (since I restarted DE shaving again some months back).

After decades of using aftershave balms to stop flaky skin, my favourite being Rexona for Men - because it didn't leave me with a glossy wet look - I've actually found that I seem to be getting great results just by applying the Alum block after shaving, and not washing it off. Why I don't get flaky skin from using the Alum is a mystery to me.

Everyone should have an alum block. It's great for stopping blood from nicks of course. But more importantly, it tells you how well your razor and blade are working. One may well have no visible nicks, but the alum block shows up the invisible ones. With some razor and blade combinations, one feels lots of tiny stings from the Alum block, with other combinations, one feels hardly any stings. I bought six 70 gram Ali Biyikli blocks from Ebay in Turkey for a total of $15, including postage.

What subjects do you teach?
Cheers,
Renato

Well, that means you can be philosophical about those nicks and stings! Definitely an enriching subject, but I often wind up crossing swords with a friend who's a very experienced amateur at things to do with philosophy.

I have no experience with the Parker 99, but I do have experience with plenty of razors now, and can assure you that if you are like me it probably won't be your technique causing you those multitude of stings with the alum. I use the same technique with my mild Weber DLC, Gillette Tech, Gillette Slim Twist and get next to no stings with them. With my Merkur 33C, Lord L6, Gillette SuperSpeed I'll always get more of those stings, and the occasional real nick. And I get even more stings and nicks with some of my cheap Chinese razors, especially their Twist To Open ones.

Yes, a blade can be too sharp. If I put a Feather or Astra SP I can expect more stings and more scraping - an area that goes red with fine pimples (as opposed to just red razorburn). I am finding that I get better results in terms of stings and nicks with regular Gillette Super Thin Stainless Steel and SuperMax Stainless steel, than using Feather and Astra SP in my Gillette Tech, Gillette Slim Twist, Merkur 33C, Lord L6, Gillette SuperSpeed and Feather Popular razors.

In my Weber DLC, Gillette Sterling (current $7 model from India) and Big Roc (nice $5 Chinese razor), they just will not shave close with my stainless steel blades, and must have Feather and Astra SP blades to work properly. I get no stings with the Weber DLC.

The other factor is how long one uses the blade. When I used to DE shave decades ago, before recommencing recently, I'd always hate a new blade in my Gillette Super Adjustable. After four days of nicks, it would settle down and be fine for the next three weeks. I'm still not fond of a new blade for the first shave but now am okay from the second shave onwards (probably due to better technique and better soap and creams). I was quite amazed to find that at B&B some people use a blade once, then throw it out, some use it two times, some four times, some 10 or 12 times, and there is a minority who use one for a month. Blade usage has to have an effect on number of stings.

Anyhow, it's early days yet - I still have about 20 or 30 brands of blades to try out in about 12 primary razors - and I have 14 blades currently in use, and I still haven't thrown one out.
Cheers,
Renato

I have the Somerset's one which claims to be the original and the best. And I have the King of Shaves one to. They both cost between 7 and 8 dollars down here for tiny bottles.

Do they work - yes (well, I used more than three drops though).
Did I enjoy using them - not much.
Is it easy to miss some part of your face while shaving - yes.

I haven't used them as a pre-shave oil yet, but I suspect they'd be pretty good
Regards,
Renato