Creed & Tom Ford SA = clueless

Why not just ask if they have the product? If they don't, just leave. They're sellers, not historians. Would you expect a kid working at the computer section of Best Buy to know the history of Intel chipsets?

I can't speak for Neiman Marcus as I'm Canadian but heading to Sears, the Bay, Holt Renfrew or Shoppers around here would yield an experience similar to your own. I don't blame them though, as the majority of their customers aren't frag-heads and likely don't care at what time of the day Tom Ford brushes his teeth daily.

This is what I'd do.

I think they use Axe in the secret of their homes

The SA at my local Neiman Marcus is extremely knowledgeable. I can't stump him on anything and he knows a lot of scents I don't.

You act as if you were teleported to the planet Earth yesterday and completely unaware of how life is.
Does the guy pumping gas know the different octane levels and knock ratings of the petrol?


You cannot compare a much less sold $5,000 product and SA to a daily seller ~$50 item and SA.

It appears that you imagine yourself to live in an ideal world.

Nice!

There are a good number of highly knowledgeable fragrance reps out there, but they really are in high demand. Even the high-end stores simply can't have ALL their staff at that level of knowledge, no matter how much they are able to land and retain staff with those qualifications. Just having people who know the current line by heart is difficult. After years of Creed love, I'm still discovering new things - things I'm surprised I didn't know.

I'm sure that the person with insider knowledge on V.T. was on their day off when you dropped in, Midiguru!

Some SA's are quite knowledgeable, some are not.

Funnily enough just last week one SA put the above to me - esteemed company, heads of state etc. and while I appreciated her enthusiasm I'm afraid I had to just smile and leave it at that as this is marketing, not history. There are some quite informative threads and posts here about Creed that may be worth checking out if you want to learn more - I think the most comprehensively reseached one to date comes from a member called the_good_life. I can't provide a link right now but if you Search 'Creed History' you might find it. Cheers

i'm not surprised she hadn't heard of basenotes. It may come as a shock but basenotes is not the centre of the fragrance industry around which purveyors of fine fragrance rotate like the planets of the solar system. basenotes is more like pluto.

I avoid most SA:s as they try to shove their latest product down my throat 9/10. Based on their approach and what they're pushing I assume most of them aren't very knowledgable.

The arrogance of basenoters amazes me sometimes.

"I did not leave; I chose to educate the SA about the history behind the product. "

LOL!

I think the problem is that a lot of SA don't even seem to know too much about the fragrances they actually still sell. But my experience has been 50% great 50% bad. Btw... you DO know that most of the royal stories surrounding Creed fragrances are made up, right?!

How do you know the person you spoke with was the official rep of creed and tom ford and not just a general fragrance employee who is not specific to a brand? It would be quite odd for one person to be the rep of creed and TF at the same time. And no, very few employees know what basenotes is and its quite ignorant to assume they all would.

It's not. It's like going into Tiffany's and them being uninformed about a certain piece of jewelry you're asking about that they no longer sell. They will know the 4 C's because that pertains to what they're selling. The same way a Best Buy computer employee will know what an i5 and i7 or Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge are but have no idea about chips from the the 90s.

I've actually found all the SA's at specialized retail fragrance counters where I shop locally (Nieman Marcus, Saks, Macy's, Sephora, Perfumania, Bloomingdales, Occitane, and a small old school pharmacy in Harvard Square) to be reasonably knowledgeable about the fragrances they actually sell, though they do say "this is my favorite!" a lot and "this just came out" even when that was two years ago. Some of them are extremely knowledgeable, like the aforementioned Neiman Marcus SA. My assumption is that they are used to dealing with a fairly demanding clientele. In my experience, if you act at all interested, they will ply you with opinions and options until you buy something or run out of the store screaming...

Basenotes = The World (for a lot of Basenoters).

Not seeing any arrogance here, just the facts. I definitely know much, much more about fragrance in general, and have tried hundreds more fragrances, than every single SA I have spoken with, other than at Scent Bar. The same is true of a tennis pro walking into a sporting goods store or a touring guitarist coming into Guitar Center. Those guys don't expect the SA to know as much as they do, and neither should we.

These people make sixteen bucks an hour. Come on people, you're not gonna get experts in there, so stop expecting it.

Problems do arise when SA's pretend they know more than they do. Then they're earning a smackdown. Good SAs understand right away that I'm more knowledgable than they are, and attempt to use that to flatter me into buying something. Now THAT is what they're hired for: getting dollars out of consumers' pockets, not getting facts into their heads. Of course it doesn't usually work on me, but it makes for a much more pleasant interaction than them lying and fronting, and me eye-rolling.

I think there's just a fine line between explaining something and educating someone. I don't want to come off just as pretentiously snobby as those SAs that I can't stand myself...

I dont hold it against SA's if they aren't particularly knowledgable about their products I just would rather they let me do my thing until I need them. Most should take a page out of Sephoras book. They ask you once if you need help, then leave you alone to sniff until your dizzy, and will give you a sample of anything you want.

At my local NM it took a few trips for them to realize I knew a little more than an average customer and now they just leave me to my own devices at the creed and Tom ford counters. When I got my bottle of aventus I basically went behind the counter and rooted through all the bottles until I found the batch I wanted, and was unmolested the whole time which I very much appreciated.

Nothing more annoying then being approached from behind and the first thing you hear is " Im sure that smells wonderful on you."

My usual thought is, how in the hell would anyone know that, it's been thirty seconds since I put it on.

I feel your pain. A couple of weeks ago I had to educate the Dior SA at a department store about the reformulations of Dior Homme. Her tester was the 2005 edition and the boxed bottles she was selling were the 2011 reformulation. How can you tell: the tube in the bottles are different. The 2005 edition has a silver tube and the 2011 one has a black tube. The difference in the scents is almost identical to the lay person. She had no idea of the reformulations, didn't even know who Hedi Slimane is.

I disagree with some comments that the SAs are not historians and don't have to know the history of the brands they are selling. Selling high-end fragrance is not like selling gas. Creed, Tom Ford, By Kilian are luxury brands, they are not commodity products like gas. Creed is Creed because of its quality, history and tradition. If I go to the store and the SA cannot sell me on the magic of Creed why would I buy it? Yes, some smell great but so do designer brands 10 times cheaper. This is not about being nerdy and obsessive about fragrances. This is about being good at what you are hired to do - to sell the magic and sell scents. If I were Tom Ford and the SA at Nieman's selling my line didn't know anything about it, I'd fire them: it hurts my sales and my image. I'd be pissed that I spent millions to create this magic, put a lot of creativity and effort to make these fragrances and it is all going to waste because the SA doesn't care.

Luckily not all SAs are ignorant. I've come across some great SAs who are passionate about fragrance and really know their stuff.

OMG the dept store rep didnt know who Hedi Slimane is! LOL

Unfortunately I have had poor SA's at a couple of NM locations. They have what they call a Boutique store here in Palm Beach, and they have dedicated SA's for many of the niche brands. Some of the other NM locations I have been to cover all the fragrances, much like Macy's. From my personal experience, Saks SA's are very knowledgable and extremely helpful when it comes to their fragrances.

If they don't know Hedi Slimane and Jean Claude Ellenas names, walk out!

I'm really interested to know what you bought. Because if you went in and informed her that the different colours of the tubes means that the formulations are slightly different but identical to the "lay person" and didn't buy anything, you are were the top story in the staff room that day - and not in a flattering way.

Tom Ford and Creed fragrances are expensive, specialised items. It's not like we're talking about Hugo Boss or Lacoste high streets frags here. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect a certain base level of knowledge when being served for a TF or Creed product, and I'm slightly surprised at the reaction the OP has received from a few posters here.

As a general comment (not specifically directed at the OP) a lot of these "clueless SA" stories seem mainly about validating the poster's superior knowledge.

SA's are sales people, and I don't really expect anything out of an SA other than trying to move product. Whether they do it well or badly doesn't really affect me. It's fun to talk to someone knowledgeable who shares your enthusiasm, but mostly I'd rather just be left alone to test what I want. I suppose I might be frustrated if I had a genuine question that was important to my buying decision that the SA couldn't answer, but I find those kinds of questions are usually answered more reliably by online research and/or my own nose.

I have an SA at Lord & Taylor near me who is very enthusiastic about discussing fragrances and makes an effort to be able to answer questions about the notes in the fragrances she sells. She keeps a notebook (no pun intended) of fragrances and their notes, but has no clue about specific perfumers, reformulations and so forth. I know more than she does, but she is very pleasant, and tolerant of my testing things multiple times without necessarily buying. Because of her service, I've bought a number of bottles at full retail from her that I could have purchased for less online. She did her job with me because she made some sales for her store.

On the other hand, at the Perfumania in the local mall, the SAs are more of the typical clueless variety. Once while I was there another customer asked for Gucci Rush, which they didn't have. He probably would have just walked out without buying anything, but I suggested he try Azzaro Visit, which he ended up buying. Lack of knowledge would have cost that SA a sale, but that's certainly nothing for me to get all outraged about.

Was she grateful?

Retail is almost never the place to seek high end expertise.

To be fair, think about the qualities of the sort of SA you're hoping for. Can retailers really afford to hire that sort of person? Not everyone has the kind of talents you're looking for, and those who do can usually land better jobs. Always be respectful to people who work in retail.

I still want to know how the OP specifically knew he was talking to the Creed/TF rep and not just a general store employee. From my experience, a brand rep does not work for multiple brands at once, which would lead me to believe it was a general store employee, where it would be more understandable that that person didn't know as many specifics about a line.

I agree, this is the key point. Assuming it was a specialist rep, I sympathise with the OP.

Generally that is correct. One of the better Saks in town have reps that work for the distributor, who may handle multiple brands. The same store has reps who work for the individual company. The Tom Ford SA works for Tom Ford, The Creed rep works for Creed. The Bond rep works for Bond and the Guerlain rep works for Guerlain and the Chanel Boutique rep works for Chanel.

This is true, at my NM there is a fairly knowledgable Creed SA who knows enough to navigate you through the line of fragrances, but the other general SA's tried to sell me aventus on the fact that Jamie Fox buys five bottles a year. LOL!

Did you ask her if she ever did get some sort of information about the history of these brands before starting the job? Maybe she didn't even know that Napoleon III granted CREED a royal warrant in 1855.

I don't think it is fair for a rep to know all the d/c'd fragrances ( ie Vintage Tabarome). Nothing against the OP.

But I really don't care for guys ( or guy) who repeatedly shows an attitude of "too cool for school"/ "a man apart ( from BNs)". Mocking, trying to be holier than thou ( ironic, because he is attempting to show that he isn't that way), ridiculing, making hypothetical situations up and acting.....I wouldn't say immature, because "adults" act this way sadly... acting rude I will say.

I find that SAs vary. Some know a good deal, and some could not care less or are poorly trained.

Yes.

The job type is not skilled like accountant, engineer, doctor, architect. A university degree is not even required. The pay proves that they're there to sell without needing to know technical details.

If they needed to know technical details, they'd be trained and the training would be enforced by a manager.

Maybe she was new. Or just not all that interested in her job (or secretly thinks Creed isn't worth the money :-p). I would think that maybe some would read up about the brand out of personal interest or to be prepared for customer's questions, but maybe that is expecting too much. Really, they're just there to look nice, be (more or less) friendly and sell the products that are in stock.

IMO this is fair enough if talking about high street, generic, low-mid price fragrances.

When potentially spending the type of money we know is involved for higher end products, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little bit more than this. Obviously, the line needs to be drawn somewhere, but I personally don't think it's as low as some seem to think.

It would be ideal to always deal with knowledgeable, helpful and friendly people, of course, alas it will not always be the case.

How well known is this VT (outside of BN)? On Fragrantica it seems to have received only 2 reviews and 16 votes. Edit - oh ok, there is a Tabarome too, which seems to be more popular, so she should have known that at least.

If you go to a car dealership, you expect the salesman to know about the cars they're selling. You also expect them to know about the differences between the current models and previous models. The more knowledgeable the salesman is, the more sales will be made.

You all wouldn't believe how many times I've asked a fragrance SA about Bvlgari, only to be responded with, "What is Bvlgari?" Things like that should never happen at high end stores. The majority of the time I received that "What is Bvlgari" response, the SA actually had Bvlgari in stock and didn't even realize it! If they don't know about their products, they should at least know what products they have available.

You can't be serious, comparing somebody who works at a dealership making commissions on selling cars for tens of thousands of dollars to somebody behind a sales counter selling products for tens of dollars (Bvlgari, using your example).

Hobbyists who turn a product into a passion will almost always know more than salespeople will. It's not just a frag thing. It's true for any product. People who are really into Levis 501s will know more about them than those in sales selling them. People who are really into Apple stuff... people who are really into a certain kind of cookware... people who are really into wine... or classic cars or just about anything else. Pick a product. Anyone who has turned that product - or even that kind of product - into a passion will almost always know more than the people selling it. Hell, a lot of the people who work at fragrance counters don't even earn enough to be able to afford to collect frags!!!

Always be considerate to people who work in retail and/or the service industry.

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Stores can only hire from the available talent pool. The kind of people who are going to memorize the ingredients lists for hundreds of products, separating them into categories (top notes, middle and base notes) aren't going to be looking for minimum or even near minimum wage jobs.

Many of the people working at fragrance counters aren't there because they're into fragrances. They're there because the stores need someone to do that job and they were the best the store had. I see it at my local Macy's all the time. That person behind the fragrance counter is doing their best to pay the rent and put food on the table.

If you need expertise, you need to be going to a specialty shop like the Creed Botique or to a small specialty shop that ONLY sells fragrances (and I don't mean a mall store).

If you need expertise, you need to be seeking experts, not somebody making $9 an hour.

Could it do with how you are pronouncing it?

How much does an SA at Neiman's get paid? Enough to cruise BN for a couple hours a day during her free time? I doubt it...in today's world with the economy we have you get plenty of well educated people who have gotten laid off or can't find a job in their field so they take any decent job they can find. And no, Creed fragrances are not like diamond engagement rings. One cost a couple hundred another can cost tens of thousands. That would be like comparing a McDonald's cashier with a Creed SA. Chances are the SA is far more knowledgable about fragrances (even if they don't know what Basenotes is) than a McDonalds employee knows about cuts of Kobe beef. Moreover...why the hell would a SA know about Basenotes??? There are musicians out there who have huge websites dedicated to them that know nothing about these websites.

I appreciate knowledgable SA's but to expect them to know about non-brand affiliated websites is absurd. Should MLB employees know about fan websites. Man, you live on a different planet.

He is supposed to support your views because of a good swap last year?

I think tracer makes some very legitimate comments. I agree with what he has to say.

Time to close this thread now.

I recently told an SA who asked me if I needed help, that I had come to get the last bottle (no longer there) of a Serge Lutens frag that had just been added to the non-export line. She robotically said "We have more coming in, you know. By next week."

"Really?" I asked.

"Yes, just pop back next week."

3 months later, and of course, there are no non-export bottles there.