End Perfume Sexism - Should Basenotes Merge the Male and Female Sub-Forums? - Page 2

+2 -- but thank you, andylama, for creating an interesting thread!

Hi Everyone:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, and correct me if I'm wrong - when Basenotes started waaaayy back then, it was aimed at men only. Then the woman's forum was started to accommodate the numbers of women who came on board, so there has been a civil and evolving policy in place, and that's the way it came about. I read Basenotes for years before I joined, and never felt any us/them thing going on.

The assumptions that are being made about women on this thread, even some of the well intentioned ones, are disgraceful.

Exactly, and that's all I was trying to say with my criticism and was pretty much told to shut up and stop complaining like all women complain by one poster who I have seen repeatedly make seemingly unintentional inflammatory remarks in other threads, but I think maybe he ought to check his attitude.

I understand that this was originally a male site, but so what? Lots of the world was originally a man's world, and now it's not. No one was stopping women from coming on and posting before either; no one could--it's the internet. In my short time on basenotes so far, I've mostly experienced cool, friendly openly supportive and non-stereotyping people who love perfumes. The people who see no need for set gender lines have been the most interesting among them.

With the only exception: In the male forums a certain pissing contest meanness sometimes manifests, mostly pathetic scenes of the more original or intelligent guys being taken down a peg by the man's men, show-offs, trolls, whatever. And yeah I'm a leftie softie blah blah blah, but let's all get along, whatever our differences. We're a bunch of people who like to smell stuff. So really, none of us is normal.

+1, that's why i haven't bothered to comment/post/reply!

No.

I can't say that I care either way. Really, though, I always forget that there is a female forum; I think because it has so little activity that I do not bother to check it, and merely have the male forum bookmarked as my single portal to this site. It is only the rare post like this that reminds me. I think I have posted in only two threads on the female forum, but enjoyed both. Merging or keeping them separate is arbitrary in terms of my own experience and expectations.

Um, how has the differentiation between forums to discuss female (marketed) fragrances and male (marketed) fragrances been transformed into a discussion about which genders can or will use these forums?

A forum for male fragrances does not equal a forum for males.

Personally I like the set up as it is. I know that when I'm sick of some of the juvenile and meaningless carry on in one section I can get respite in the other.
Also, I would very much like to see a unisex/niche forum. There's often interesting discussions about fragrances or lines that clearly defy gender classification and yet they end up on the Male Fragrance board e.g. the O'Driù thread.

Your postings make an eloquent case against this hypothesis, but all in all you are probably right. Kudos anyway.

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!

One of the things that makes BN attractive would be this dichotomy. "The crowds" that flock to each of these forums are so very different, as well, with the men's forums being so....well.....manly, and vice-versa. It isn't sexism. It's just logic.

Sums it up perfectly

Why not leave a good thing alone ? Variety is the spice of life. Fragrances as such are created with a large gamme of diversity.

In the same manner as mixing different foods together and make it "mush" (= non-descript), neutralizing the arena of Basenotes is making it boring instead of diversified.

The more opinions - the better - I like a nice debate.

Neutralizing the sub-forums for convenience ? That defeats the whole purpose of Basenotes.

What's wrong with 'sexism'?

I'd like to see things left the way they are currently.

Well, at least you're man enough to admit it!

And I figured it'd take at least 24 hours for this thread to become a sad parody of a gender studies course, but I was wrong.

OK. I suppose if I have something to say then I should put my money where my mouth is and vote.

My personal preference would be to merge. My vote will be NOT to merge.

Can I explain why?

My personal preference would be for no segregation between the mens and womens forums. Why? BecauseI love fragrance. Simply that! I am a student, a hobbyist, an enthusiast. I wouldn't wear Knize Ten but I am privileged that I could maybe talk about it, or at least understand when someone else talks about it. Similarly, I can't stand Shalimar, but I understand why it is important. I am captivated when I see a thread where the men are talking about roses, or stinking animal musk, (which I don't like, but I like to learn about). I love the humour and the warmth, and the lack of competitiveness that the women in particular bring to the discusssion of fragrance. Many of my most valued friends on Basenotes are men. I adore them and they have helped make my journey possible. Fragrance is all fragrance to me. I love it.

I would vote not to merge. Why? Because I see the views expressed here. I see that lots of people are not coming from the same place as me, lots of people like things the way they are, lots of people would be upset. And lets not be coy about it, there is more than a subtext of hostility, of territorialism here. I think that our gallant Timaru has just about said it all. Actually I really enjoy the humour in the "male side", most of the time, but not when it becomes out and out misogenistic, which it does you know. It really does.

So do you know what, keep things the way they are. That means that those who never look to see if there is something of interest anywhere other than in their own domain can continue to do that without inconvenience, and those of us who have wider interests can do as we always have done and cruise around the forums. So it works for everyone. Hurrah!

Anyway the way that I navigate around is to click "Forums" then "New Posts", which then displays threads from every Forum, so I get the best of all worlds.

Keep things the way they are.

Sorry guys as someone who wanders where ever I fancy on Basenotes and I do enjoy reading both sides.

The male side seems to consist of:

Batch codes
Is this fake?
Batch codes
Is this fake?
Batch codes
Is this fake?
Batch codes
Is this fake?

Oh and:
Creed
Creed
Creed
Creed
Creed
Creed
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Oh and the how many sprays for night out, work, going to the dentist, getting buried today, getting cremated today, etc.

The male board is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very into the numbers and paranoia over which batch code is the best. I have an idea on a tech forum the same thing would go on which batch code of Ipad etc is the best model to buy, is my Ipad a fake?

Its not your fault its the way your brains seem to work.

Now we do on the female board get which is the perfume men find sexy, but not so much. The odd, I bought this on ebay is it fake. But it is more relaxed and I have noticed a number of guys who post on there and not really the male board.

Completely agree.

The level of camaraderie and general etiquette on the female boards easily surpasses the male side. It is much more pleasant and enjoyable overall and deserves to remain so. As Jack said "If it ain't broke.."

A resounding NO !.

The term "Sexism" is a loaded word nowadays - equivalent to calling people fascists or racists.

So, Grant sets up a Male Fragrance discussion site 12 years ago - when there were none in existence, but women's ones were, and then he subsequently added a Female Fragrance discussion board, and now he's supposedly running a site with sexism, where women are marginalized. And you make a grand call for gender inclusiveness, when you know full well that men can read and post on the Female site, just as women can read and post on the Male site - and nobody has any qualms when they do so.

It's still a relatively free world, and it is Grant's site - not ours - feel free to set up your own site and run it as you see fit. To my mind, setting up a Poll on how Grant should run his site, which he runs for free, on his own time, strikes me as very poor form.
Regards,
Renato

If you merge them the women will not suddenly multiply and post more, I'd think. Also it might cause confusion, unless everyone remembers to type pour Homme when talking about scents that also exist as a pour Femme. I also enjoy popping over to the women's side to enquire about fragrances marketed to women to get a mainly female point of view (and also from men who wear these scents, of course).

Keeping them separate seems wiser. It's not difficult to simply enter the male fragrance forums and read what we have posted. Combining the two forums would lead a cluttered section in my opinion. This way it's easier on both men and women; I frequently go through the male forums to look for suggestions on male fragrances. Anything posted about female fragrances, although interesting to read, will be irrelevant.
Maybe a unisex forum (if it's not already around)? Although I'm sure men will still post in the men's forum, and women in the women's forum.

I voted No as on a couple of occasions I have been castigated by certain male BNers for not sharing their views. Including being told patronizingly I knew nothing of my profession of the last 20 years! Knit is quite right the male board is faster, snarlier and generally more testosterone fueled (who has the biggest wardrobe?) than the female forum.

If posters wish to have a lively discussion opt for the female forum, if posters are up for an argument head for the male.

If posters want to be chastised post any neutral Meh comment about Secretions Magnifique and be called a philistine by rude, opinion young men wherever you post

Plus 1...

Usually effective stickies (just a few!) and a stickied, comprehensive FAQ helps to answer some of the really general questions.

Don’t know if the boys could control themselves, what with me romping about in my jammies.

Quarry you are the Queen! All hail the Queen!

Hail, Queen Quarry!

C'est vrai

Phew, Pheeeew!! lookin good sister!!

LOL - love it, Quarry .

It's always been my sense that perfume appeals just as much to women as men....if not more. So it's been hard not to notice just how less active the women's board is than the men's.

My assumption has always been that their main activity must be happening on a board other than Basenotes. Fragrantia, MUA ? Surely they must be somewhere.

Having said that, I always find myself paying special attention to the posts that women leave on the men's board. For me, hearing a woman's opinion really does add a richer dimension to the discussion.

I completely agree. I don't feel marginalized at all here. We are equally valuable, but different. And although I agree with both men and women wearing any scent they like, however it's marketed, the fact is that I tend to buy and like women's scents. So that is mainly where I read and post. Keeping the forums separate makes life easier as I don't have to scour so many threads that - for me - would be irrelevant.

Second option. Leave everything the way it is right now. I don't this division of sub-forums as sexists.

the mens side has a lot of really boring people.

It's good to keep all those people together and apart from interesting conversations.

I have started only reading the general forum because it is more interesting and there are fewer blowhards, hot-heads and bores.