New Kerosene - Wood Haven

This sounds great. I loved TF Oud Wood..which I found to be a pure wood scent for me so the notes sound great for this. I'm wondering how this will come off though. The top notes add a summer feel to it but the mid and basenotes seem like it would make a great Fall scent. Maybe comes off as year round. I know I'm not supposed to categorize but I do.

Crossing my fingers this is not going to be a Norlimbanol bomb...

lol.

Nice!

Just something unique with woods!

Anyone else feel this is a renamed WonderWood?

lol.. after cdg's weak attempt, i can only hope it's better. it will come with a price tag as well unfortunately (currently selling at 145$ / 129Euro a pop + mailing charges, hmmmm....)

Don't wanna go off topic but WW is actually pretty good. Not as CDG'esque as say 2 or Odeur 71 but nonetheless CDG.

I really liked WonderWood too... That said, this one definitely looks like it is my kind of scent as well. I look forward to trying it.

Has anybody tried this yet?

I have samples on the way but a few people have reviewed it on FB...said it was awesome....Fields of Rubus as well.

Overpriced and overrated.... and need I say over again, over hyped.

I really don't find there to be a lot of "hype" around the Kerosene line.

Ditto...hard to say that if you have not sampled..

No I haven't, especially when taking the price into consideration.

Him being such a big part of the community, he does get that extra attention which sometimes end up with bias opinions.

The price is the main thing, maybe if someone would split it then I may buy a decant.

Him being relatively new to the art of fragrance production with the price he set just seems unjustifiable. I'm all for anyone starting their own company, I respect any entrepreneur chasing their goals and wish them success.

When it comes down to it, for example: in the NBA you can't expect a rookie to get the same lucrative contract as a multi champion ballplayer but in time its possible for the rookie to get on that level.

Just my take on things, agree to disagree.

He does set his price up there with Guerlain and Frederic Malle doesn't he?

Not sure what you're implying, are you agreeing with me?

Very much so.

Alright, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic since you really can't get the tone across on the computer sometimes...but its all good, at least I know I'm not alone.

A newb needs to have a very modest sampling program to get the product/talent out there. I would take some free samples but very unlikely that I'd pay for them.

You can't really say it's overrated if you haven't smelled it though. To continue your analogy, regardless of if the rookie gets the same contract as a veteran, the truth is, he may play a better season than the veteran. And if pay was 'after the fact', after the season, and based on merit and performance, then the rookie would justifiably make more than the veteran. So, if you sample the scent, and like it more than some Malle or Montale or whatever, then it's worth more than those scents, too.

I'm not saying all of his scents are or are not worth it. I've only sampled R'oud Elements and I think it is very good but not something I personally find FBW. But if Kerosene makes a scent I end up loving - well, then his asking price is worth it. It's simple, really. It's all about the composition. Something doesn't smell better or worse just because of the name on the bottle (a fact that is lost on many who have wittingly or unwittingly descended into scent-snobbery.)

I'm ok with a new perfumer setting whatever price they like. If the fragrances aren't up to par, all the grace and good will in the world won't save the company. I do think it's better to work your way up the ladder so to speak. Perfumery isn't like music, meaning you can have child prodigies in music who are born with a gift and are composing symphonies by age 5, but perfume is an art that requires a very long time to master, Jean Paul Guerlain or Christopher Sheldrake are good examples, much like being a master baker chef who rakes in a 6 figure salary after decades of intense daily training and practice. Most people could probably buy essential oils of their favorite ingredients and make something relatively interesting (in fact Kerosene is not the only YouTuber making fragrances now, I saw videos of anther guy Robert Elder making some too which Luckyscent is going to carry soon, he says), but the true art comes from the fine details. To me that's what separates a truly magnificent fragrance from a rough-around-the-edges one, the masterful subtleties that come with years of intimate knowledge of a perfumer's palette. Kerosene is very new and so I take that into consideration and thus am not expecting an Amouage or Lutens quality fragrance, and if he's passionate then hopefully down the road he will become a master of his domain and create fragrances worthy of fetching the high price tag. His bottles are cool and I love the name Kerosene, I think visually he has it nailed down, and if you watch his videos you can see he is such a great guy and you can't help but want to root for him and hope he sees a great amount of success. I'm very proud of him.

With that said, not to tell anyone how to act but I think if defenders of his constantly ridicule criticism (constructive or otherwise) or seem to gang up or intimidate those who aren't impressed or express doubts with the line it's going to put a lot of people off from the brand. I can trash Interlude Man and nobody will mind, but I have a feeling if I gave my honest opinion on the Kerosene fragrances I've tried I'd get an earful. It kinda puts me off from the brand, and the sad part is it's no fault of Kerosene's but those who feel protective of him. With all that said, I'm very eager to try his 2 new releases and I hope for his continued success.

And where is the Kerosene webpage already?!

The thing is, I'm not defending his brand at all.

First of all, I'm not sure that you couldn't have a Jean Baptiste Grenouille kind of prodigy of perfume - why would such prodigious talent be limited to specific domains? We have math prodigies, language prodigies, music prodigies, memory prodigies, etc. Is olfaction somehow exempt from the list?

That's not to say I think he is an olfactory prodigy. I have no idea - I have only smelled one of his scents and I have no idea how he works. If he hits upon new scents with great balance in a single trial or two, then I'd say that is a prodigy-like talent. Maybe he is doing 500+ trials for each scent. I don't know, so I can't say.

But the point I was trying to make, and it really doesn't have anything specific to do with Kerosene fragrances, but instead with fragrance (or any art) in general, is that if it speaks to you, if you connect with it emotionally, spiritually, or otherwise, it has value. The connection is the value - not the talent or not of the perfumer or musician or whatever. I can be moved by a group of Tibetan monks chanting a single drone note, a punk band playing 3 chords (but with raw passion), or a symphony by Mozart. Is there more technical expertise present in a symphony by Mozart than a 3-chord song? Of course. Does it matter? Not really. What matters is what you connect to - what moves you.

I love Yatagan and Armand Basi PH, both of which I got for < $30. I love Michael Storer's Djin which is admittedly rough around the edges (in a good way, imo) and encapsulates the indie-spirit. I love them as much as the Amouage's I own. Hell, I wish I could have gotten the Amouage's for < $30. I would have loved them no less. I think his pricing will - unfortunately - but shouldn't be used as a method of pre-discrimination. Just smell the scents and rate them as objectively as you can. That's what we should do with all scents - with all art. You don't pay more for a CD full of classical music than you do for some 3-chord punk band (in fact, in that industry there's a reversal-of-sorts and you'd often pay less).

Believe me I couldn't agree more. People love the Molecule 01 fragrances and that's the most basic form of perfumery out there, and I know some folks (and even myself on occasion) who love very unusual, rough, industrial type fragrances. We're totally on the same page there. My point is that some people aren't on our page and I don't think their difference of opinion should preclude them from the conversation. Some people feel the price should reflect a certain craftsmanship or mastery of the product, and I do understand that opinion even if I'm not fully on board with it.

However, I must respectfully disagree on the child prodigy aspect. I can't think of a single house or perfumer who hit the ground running producing masterpieces. If some exist I'm more than open to testing them out and if I'm wrong then I'll eat crow. All of the noses of my favorite perfumes have been doing this 15, 20 some even over 30 years. But again, these are just opinions, I'm not professing to know any great truth.. merely my perceptions.

I'm not sure that a perfume prodigy would really have been possible, logistically, until recently. The thing is, you can put a child in front of a piano and they have full access to all 88 keys. Very, very very few would ever have been able to set a child in front of a perfume organ and give them access to all the "keys" in perfumery. There has been really only one road into the 'secret vaults' of perfumery, and that was through one of the very few major schools, and they offered a very structured and paced path for the students to follow. I'm sure the instructors at these schools saw students of different aptitude, but I doubt that the structure of the course would have really allowed a prodigy to fully exercise their abilities but would instead hold them back somewhat to keep them 'with the rest of the class.'

It is only recently that a person can go out and obtain many (but not nearly all) of the 'keys' to perfumery. The independent can go out and buy a..maybe not an 88 key piano but a 24 key two octave piano, and can begin to exercise the craft on their own now. The thing is, so very few have done this. I'm willing to bet there are would-be olfactory prodigies out there who will never realize that potential because they simply never had the tools put before them to do so.

That's a good point. I wish that Perfume: The Story of Murder was true just so I could see what a true perfume prodigy's creations would smell like. The scene (in the movie version) where Dustin Hoffman smells the perfume Jean Baptiste Grenouille just made and is suddenly transported into that mystical garden with the exotic girl whispering "I love you" in his ear, now that's a perfume I'd like to try!

I'm entitled to my opinion and like I said agree to disagree. There is really no need to try reason and attempt to change the way I think about these kind of things. When it comes down to fragrance in general, I believe a lot of frags are overpriced and by principal I would never pay retail.

With that being said, this is a money making industry and thats a big part of it. Just seeing the thrown its been set on so suddenly, I remain skeptical of this and nobody has to question it.

Like I said, rather people are willing to admit it or not, with the amount of fans, friends, and followers he has in the community this often leads to bias opinions. I've seen it time and time again when someone dares to question his line then of course people feel the need to pounce on those who share a different perspective.

Noted and respected.


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I already have...I have all 5 of his previous releases...value is subjective...for me...if I connect with a fragrance 140 is nothing to spend for 100mls which will last me quite a while in my rotation. I loved the earthy & grounded vibe from the 5 I have...havent gotten my samples from the 2 newbies...Im sure I will like those too given the feedback Ive gotten. Incidently, you can get $21 off at MiN is Robes08 or Bros promo code.


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agreed.

I really like CdG WW. Back on topic. This house those have some nice scents. Will give this one a try also. What I don't understand why John is pushing more then one or two fragrance a year?

The presentation is too much of a turn off for me. I'll probably never sample them.

Appealing


Not so much

yteek, you've passed negative comments on Kerosene's fragrances before (without having tried them).

I think you've made your point in other threads - let it go and lets discuss the smell of the fragrances.

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Any opinions of the actual fragrance yet?

Do you ever see me knocking the fragrances themselves or commenting on how they smell?

No, you don't.

When it comes down to it there is good fragrance or bad fragrance, thats not the point I'm getting at

I'm getting at the business side of things.

It is a money making industry and by all means do what you can to make a profit. Its just with Kerosene being new to the industry and charging the price he does it just seems like a little much to pay for his learning curve, trial and error, and time for perfection. I think at one point it'd seem reasonable but even the bottles are a tad bit lacking.

Andy T's first bottles didn't look as good they do now but if you're charging top dollar invest in some quality glass making. They are creative and obviously he puts a lot of work in them but like I said if you're going to charge top dollar I expect above and beyond.

I am coming off kind of douchey, I will admit and if I was in his position I'd try to make as much money...he has mouths to feed. Its just at this point in his career of fragrance making, it seems a little much to expect the prices of the high end perfumers and established companies...maybe one day he'll be at that point.

If you don't like my opinion, don't get upset...just because I'm not clinging to Kerosene's leg with the bias opinion of the majority of the community and his fans.

I agree.

Its good that someone is understanding of my point without bring the lynch mob of heated Kerosene fans(pun?).

LOL!

Nothing like a good pun!

I need to sniff Wood Haven. Still haven't gotten around to ordering my samples.

More than even the truth that's been said, I think that Kerosene's brand has a pretty firm footing now, so (in my opinion) it's actually damaging to the brand to have any association with fanboy comments, which look dubious and don't really convince anybody anyway.

I think when a perfumer is just getting started, it's good for commenters to be very careful - yet very honest - about what the stuff is like. Fanboy comments are almost as bad as a nasty trash. But an honest description can be really helpful, even when it's negative, since some people's negatives are reliable positives for others.

I loved R'oud Elements, and was really surprised by how good it was. Total FBW - and in my opinion it's a damn good thing he rolled that one out first. Creature showed talent, IMO, but way too strange to have been a good intro frag. Copper Skies was good, being more conventional, but I think that R'oud was still better, so that's what you would want for the initial roll-out frag - not second-best.

I have yet to sniff the newest ones, but the first 3 data points are enough for me to know that they will very likely not be fails. And with Mark Behnke liking one of the new ones - and he was NOT sold on R'oud - that's a really good sign (I think he liked Santalum Slivers). But no way am I collecting Kerosene like playing cards - especially at the new price (total agree).

Slumberhouse is another one of these interesting startups. Like I said, it's important not to needlessly trash the style, but no reason to be fanboy either. I think Slumberhouse are decent, but I'm just not into that style at all right now, so they're a pass. But I was very heavily into that style at one time (Neil Morris was the closest thing to modern American masculine parfum strength back then), and I know that it's a style that deserves respect.

This is kinda off-topic, but kinda not.

We're not the only people watching this phenomenon of American male fragrance lovers turning into perfumers. The industry is clearly taking notice. In case any of you are following the new olfactory wing at the MAD museum in NYC - there are going to be classes there, taught by some top American perfumers. So if anybody is reading this thread and wondering what it might be like to begin dabbling - here you go. Three classes this fall. I almost can't believe they're doing this. Such an amazing opportunity. I almost wish I lived there. Almost.

http://madmuseum.org/series/olfactory-engineering-workshops-scent

I'd much rather judge fragrances on a case-by-case basis. If something is good, I'll buy it - I don't care if it's Creed, Chanel, Kerosene or Brut. $140 or $14 - I don't really care as long as it's quality juice.

Thanks for the heads up.


And, I agree with ↓↓↓ this:

Same, but its not really the fragrance I'm going on about, I may love them its just the principle of it but to each his own.

I agree with this. Moreover, folks over in the US can test Kerosene fragrances at MiN or get samples, so it is not even very risky. If one really likes the fragrance, he would be willing to pay for the fragrance, highly priced at it is by a fairly new perfumer. If the fragrances are bad, then the perfumer would have learnt something from the failure to sell. I believe that perfumistas and BNoters are quite discerning.

yteek, do you have a personal vendetta against him or something? You pop up on each one of his threads to put the house down.

Personally, I don't even factor cost into fragrance much anymore, so I'm probably not the best person to talk to, if I like something enough I'll get it somehow, but I don't really see a problem with how these are priced. 100mL is a giant bottle, and I would like to think that if there was a 50mL version it'd be around $100 or so.

Now, maybe I could see the price being a little lower (say $100 for 100mL) since when Tauer first started his bottles were $70, and then once well known were raised $30 and with that brought a bottle redesign. Perhaps Kerosene could have started that way.

In my opinion though, it's just right. I'm not sure how much he makes off of each bottle, but considering that the store takes a cut, cost of materials, cost of bottles, cost of paint/labor (he handpaints these afterall), ect. ect...I don't think it's unfair.

Why is the price such a concern anyway? What if, god forbid, you just like or dislike the scent based on how it smells to you, and not have a prejudice against it before you even give it a chance.

I'd like to hear about how the actual new fragrances smell. Everytime I come to see if anything is new on this thread it's basically either the same guy arguing about price points or someone else trying to explain it or justify it. I could say the same thing about 99% of fragrances on the market. It's a luxury item and it's going to demand a higher than usual price. Deal with it or find a dirt cheap hobby. They also sell fragrances in K-mart so it's not like you have to buy it.

Will check back. Looking forward to your impressions. Are there any active basenotes members that do splits on his fragrances or are they mainly just from the YouTube community?

Thats such a stupid and pointless rule, I just don't get it but this isn't the first time I've been displeased with the way things are done on here...someone recently split field of rubus on the fragrance swap for facebook.

I've tried this a couple of times now and I really like it. It doesn't smell like Wonderwood as some have suggested it might. It's nicely balanced and the listed notes are indicative of what you get, so you can pretty much tell from reading those whether this is something you might want to try. The only problem I have with it is that I'm not finding the strength and longevity very good. I do plan to try it again, though, because I do enjoy it. Unlike some, I have no problems with the bottle design.

Last time I was at Min NY I tried this but didn't care for it.

John deserve major props for getting his stuff up off the ground level. I too dabble in creation and am currently in production of a line of my own. It's not easy. IF he could make a WOnderwood Clone... I'd bow down at his feet!

Being a one man operation it's not easy to find a bottle that you will use, find a way to make it stand apart from the rest since you cannot commission a bottle on par with Tauer or Creed. He has done that...making each bottle himself, by hand. Any other established niche brand out there would charge you a flippin' fortune for a hand-made custom painted limited edition art bottle like his is producing. Not to mention that he DID have to make the juice!

His prices are fair enough. It's not a cheap hobby. Small makers do not have access to the technology and bulk discounts that IFF connected houses do. He has to cover the cost of his time, his supplies to make the scent...bottles, paint, R&D, it all just adds up and if he goes out after all that and prices it at $49 for 100ml would any of you ever even give it a chance! If nothing else he has priced himself into a category and it shows confidence. If the price was not warranted, people would not buy it at MIN or they would not blindly order a 2nd bottle blindly.

I have only ever sampled his first 3 scents. Very little knowledge and experience with the scents themselves, so I am not qualified to comment on this scent or others. I just think it's awesome that someone like Kerosene has rose to the occasion and is achieving his dreams! Who here can fault him for that!!??

Love him or hate him. Like his stuff or not. Hype or over hyped, I have MAJOR RESPECT for kerosene.

GREAT WORK and MUCH LOVE to a man who is walking the walk. I can only ever hope that my line, when it is released, will ever grace the same shelves or garner a fraction of the following his do.

Go Buy a bottle!! Support the community and support the small guys!

A lot of basenoters have respect for Kerosene, but we are not trying to spend a lot of money for something just because a particular person is selling it. First of all, you have to like the product. Then you have to ask yourself if you are willing to spend the amonut of money being requested? I think everyone took this thread a little too far (maybe just more of a misunderstanding). Enjoy the New Year!

Would like trying this one, especially after some more extensive testing.

Simply for a quite plain, common reason: I have gotten to enjoy several woody frags lately.