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Angelica root (What can I do with this stinker?)

post #1 of 16
9/24/12 at 3:08am
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone.
1.Recently I bought 10ml of Angelica root EO from India (along with frankincense and Myrrh-which are both very nice). I had never smelled it before, and from what I read (a musky kind of odor) I was tempted, and finally ordered it. Well if you ask me now, I'd say that 10ml is at least a lifetime supply not to mention the odor which is unbearable (and far from what I call musky)... To my nose it is a strange blend of wood varnish and rotten grape pulp, intended for making wine but went wrong.
I tried to dilute it at 10% in DPG and still seems powerfull enough to dominate everything that blends with. Any suggestions? Any notes to go well with it and at which proportions ?

2.No matter how many times and blends I tried with Isoraldeine 70, as an additional middle floral/orris note, and I get the same washed out, violet soapy mess that contaminates the whole composition. I ve noticed that the effect gets worse when the blend includes Virg.cedarwood EO. Anyone else with the same problem? What can I use for a more rooty orris effect instead of Isoraldeine 70?
Thanks
Nikos
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post #2 of 16
9/24/12 at 3:23am
Reduce it to 1% and another to 0.1%. it takes on a different persona at lower concentrations.

I quite like a weeny dash with green/citrus compositions but yes it really dominates any blends with a sort of celery/old fence/spicy musky note. It goes quite peppery when with lemon, and is quite nice with another green like oakmoss. It leans more towards a basenote than a middle range. Lavender works quite nicely with it as a floral. IMO only, not gospel.
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post #3 of 16
9/24/12 at 4:18am
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot mumsy! you were very helpful.
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post #4 of 16
9/24/12 at 4:38am
Stinkers are good things.... They are like wild creatures and need keeping in the distance until they are tamed IMO
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post #5 of 16
9/24/12 at 9:19am
In essential oil trade there is a kind of joke of calling fake essential oils Indian ..., especially when a certain oil is usualy not from India. Though it might be perfecly good Angelica Root oil it is not very common to get it from India grown angelica. So, it might be a fragrance mix, in that case it might smell different (and have different properties then) then the real essential oil. Otherwise it also might be different, angelica is commonly grown in the northern part of Europe, a different climate, therefor the oil may be different.

Lets assume it is the real oil, and of the same type as the standard oil, in that case I would call it dry, earthy, herbal (which sounds much better ). It is indeed an oil that is rareley used in large amounts. I use it about the same way I use carrot seed oil: in very small amounts to add some natural, earthy aspects, mainly active in the top. To use it a 10% and 1% solution in alcohol or DPG can be very useful.
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post #6 of 16
9/24/12 at 9:38am
If it's the real oil, it's likely to be different from the more frequently used European angelica, Angelica archangelica. The Asian angelica is Angelica acutiloba, or Dong Qui, an essential herb in TCM.
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post #7 of 16
9/24/12 at 10:09am
I also found Angelica root oil very difficult to use. It has a green penetrating smell which, to me, really does not go with much else. From the description I think evinick could have been sold a pup as I have never smelled Angelica like that before. Mumsy has given excellent advice; dilute your oil to 1.0% or even 0.1%, and start to play. Try mixing small amounts of your solution with other oils especially citrus oils and other green notes such as Galbanum or Olibanum. If you could find another sample to check the quality that also might be useful.

Isoraldeine 70 is a specific blend of Methyl Ionones which don't actually smell like Orris, but rather like Palma Violets. They have a dry powdery woody floral character and blend really well with other dry woods such as Cedarwood. If you don't want that effect then you need to get either some real Orris (fiendishly expensive) or one of several synthetic Orris bases. For the rooty green notes try Irival, Iris Nitrile, Iralia or Viotrile.
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post #8 of 16
9/24/12 at 11:07am
Thread Starter 
Thanks everybody. Well, what seems most suitable for me in order to check whether 1) I have the "real thing" and 2) and most important : my sense of smell is not so far from yours (I smell varnish where you smell earth and green...), is to send to 1 or 2 of you (that knows how real angelica root smells) a small sample of my diluted oil. If anyone wishes to receive a sample pls pm me. David thanks for yr orris suggestion, I ll try to find Irival. The problem is neither perfumers apprentice nor de hekserij offer it...
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post #9 of 16
9/24/12 at 1:17pm
A better way is buying angelica oils from reputable sources and do the comparison yourself...
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post #10 of 16
9/25/12 at 3:57am
Thread Starter 
Dear ariodant, my source is : Jindal International, a Kanta Group Company, owner of ISO 9000/9001/9004/19011: 2000 quality certificates, in the market from 1971, and one of the 3 bigger exporting companies of essential oils and aromachemicals in India. It seemed quite reputable to me... (for the history I ve also bought from them : Frankincense, Myrrh, Mandarine, Helichrysum, Cardamom, Carrot seed and Copaiba and they all smell fine) Givaudan, IFF and Symrise unfortunately sell only Kilos of any kind of stuff. As for PA, they sell it for 30 USD/3ml! while anyone can find it in the net for a fraction of this price.
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post #11 of 16
9/25/12 at 5:27am
It is so hard to know who to trust from the web. Without knowing what something is meant to smell like; how does one know what one receives is good or not without smelling lots of different ones? Who can afford several different kinds of any one oil or abs to check? It is a minefield.
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post #12 of 16
9/25/12 at 6:30am
Thread Starter 
You are so right! Everyone does what he thinks best (and affords of course). I am just an amateur, having a very good time reading, mixing, blending, smelling but most of all feeling. That's all. Maybe I will never make it to smell angelica root EO from a "reputable source". Thats why I decided to write my humble question at this forum which I considered an amateur's one.
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post #13 of 16
9/25/12 at 7:47am
Have you considered Liberty Natural? It's a US company, but I'm fairly certain they ship internationally. They offer two European and one Indian angelica oils. I haven't tested any of these three, but other oils I bought from them seemed fine to me. It may be helpful to compare you oil against all three varieties they offer. This way you know if your oil is difficult to work with because 1)that's the nature of the Indian variety or 2)your oil is of inferior quality.

Hope that helps.
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post #14 of 16
9/25/12 at 10:38am
It is good to realise there is more than one sort. I have to say nobody needs very much of any of them....

Perhaps there should be a split thread on the DIY section like there is on the frags.
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post #15 of 16
9/25/12 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariodant View Post

If it's the real oil, it's likely to be different from the more frequently used European angelica, Angelica archangelica. The Asian angelica is Angelica acutiloba, or Dong Qui, an essential herb in TCM.

Never smelled it, but in that case the fragrance might be quite different from the A. Archangelica, which is the only common one used in western perfumery. All citrus oils are from the same botanical genus, but there is a clear difference in fragrance between neroli oil and lime zest oil.
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post #16 of 16
9/25/12 at 1:31pm
There is a pool of combined BN knowledge here
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