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Agarwood smoke

post #1 of 25
10/11/12 at 1:16am
Thread Starter 
Dear basenoters,

I have recently happened to sample Amouage Interlude, and I was blown away by what I feel is a strong opium note, which gives a powerful twist to the beautiful oud.

Now, I read in the list of notes provided by Amouage an "agarwood smoke" that I've never come across with before and I suspect the "opiate" feeling be down to that (I'm not sure though - could it be the oregano instead?).

Anyway, I was wondering what that agarwood smoke is, as I couldn't find any references and I'd really love to be able to play with that note in my compositions.

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 25
10/11/12 at 2:27am
Could you share with us naifs what opium actually smells like? I'm intrigued...

As for creating an "agarwood smoke" note maybe you could try tobacco abs, vanilla tincture or abs, beeswax abs and probably some dry woody synthetics like kephalis. Do you have agarwood chips (have you burned them)? You can tincture them but it takes a while for a smell somewhat close to the smoke.
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post #3 of 25
10/11/12 at 5:37am
I used to know what opium smoke smelled like...... but now I can't remember...lol! Opium looked like black sticky treacle. I don't remember it having a very strong smell itself, but I would doubt the validity of my state of mind at the time. It was a very long time ago. All in the name of perfumery science guv.

Agarwood notes would be along the lines of birch tar with a medicinal camphorous herbal note, oregano might do that in small quantities and softer mature woods, but not a gentle wood, a sharper darker one like the darkest parts of cedar, not soft sandalwood. I would imagine if you smelled some treacle and put an almost caramel touch in there somewhere. Think brown and sticky with sharp and nearly acrid in a nice way, but more towards incense without going there. Some indolic quality would be deep inside, maybe a micro dot of sambac to soften the wood and give it that fecal edge perhaps. Castoreum may too.

I tried to make some long ago. I will go and dig out the formula I used. It didn't quite work then but I haven't smelled it since.

You know you'll have to get some now don't you? It's an expensive and intriguing path. Dangerous and very nice.
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post #4 of 25
10/11/12 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 
I'd describe the opium's smell as dark-green, bitter, earthy, sappy, bit medicinale and slightly tart. A very dark-burnt smell, in fact getting it in Interlude made me think of how fine it would be sweetened down through some floral notes - I'd let it play with some rose and osmanthus, if I were to.

Amouage gives Agarwood smoke, but I don't really get the "smoke", if not by association with opium, not because it smells smoky, but because it's usually smoked . Unless burnt agarwood smells like opium, which I don't know
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post #5 of 25
10/11/12 at 7:17am
According to hedonist, burnt oud smells very close to Dior Leather oud, so you can use that as a reference.

Curious myself to know what opium smells like. Poppies themselves don't smell like anything.

cacio
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post #6 of 25
10/11/12 at 11:05am
Cacio is correct. Leather Oud smellsn exactly like burning oud wood. The tricky part is whether your nose can segregate the copious amount of leather and dollops of civet to be able to pick out the fumigated oud note.
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post #7 of 25
10/11/12 at 11:21am
http://www.givaudan.com/webcom/v/ind...005b53410aRCRD

http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/...ck-agar-g.aspx
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post #8 of 25
10/11/12 at 12:24pm
Thread Starter 
sounds interesting
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post #9 of 25
10/11/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

I would imagine if you smelled some treacle and put an almost caramel touch in there somewhere. Think brown and sticky with sharp and nearly acrid in a nice way, but more towards incense without going there.

I immediately thought of Opoponax absolute...

Mumsy, I'd love to sit down with you and discuss your stormy youth! LOL
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post #10 of 25
10/11/12 at 1:51pm
Stormy youth was good then.... no mobile phones, no Facebook, no twitter.... nobody to snitch

I did smell something interesting today that may be useful. I bought myself some sweet birch oil with no idea what it was going to be like and it was absolutely not anything like I expected. I've only sniffed from the bottle and not done a full scent profile but I got a blast of sticking plaster and germoline which may seem irrelevant but it could serve for that medicinal note maybe. I don't know if it stays in the smell for the smoke.
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post #11 of 25
12/7/12 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oveis View Post

...dark-green, bitter, earthy, sappy, bit medicinale and slightly tart. A very dark-burnt smell

This description makes me think of isobutyl quinoline, at least for the green-earthy-dark part. People usually describe castoreum bases to me as smoky, sometimes medicinal.

The agarwood that I've smelled at Enfleurage in New York was woody but had tobacco and honey like undertones. Tobacco absolute would definitely help in creating that note, I would think. The Firmenich oud base is supposed to be close to natural oud. I found it nice, kind of old-woody, not as rich as natural oud. Givaudan's Black Agar base is rather different from the Firmenich--it's very soft, sweeter, kind of ambery, and to my nose has a caramellic note.
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post #12 of 25
12/10/12 at 10:09am
I just found this forum for the first time today because I was experimenting with oud absolute with a minimal inclusion of florals. I was suddenly reminded of that mysterious opium scent that can not be described, but I know when I smell something familiar. I decided to do a search online and lo and behold, a whole world of scent obsessed people are out there, not just me! Will anyone laugh if I say that when I smell organic white corn tortilla chips I am reminded of that elusive scent? It's sweet, savory, but something else....
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post #13 of 25
5/9/13 at 1:24am
  • lpp
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You don't qualify to sell here & this is not the place anyway

Edit
- was a reply to a random new member selling stuff on various threads - sorry, might look even stranger without it.
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post #14 of 25
5/9/13 at 11:32am
Yes, Strange, seems like it was deleted...
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post #15 of 25
5/10/13 at 1:11am
  • lpp
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Looked like I was having a go at you if it was left, perhaps?
Your post was better than mine
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post #16 of 25
5/12/13 at 12:50am
I was interested to get a Facebook announcement from Arcadi Boix Camps of the result of 30 years of testing and research for a new, renewable, unlimited supply, supposedly completely olfactorily clonal in nature, Oud series of bases.

"Dear friends, have you seen our new reconstituted Agarwood oils, AGARWOOD JEWEL 40828/D, 40828-2/D and 40828-3/D???? They are the best in the world. We worked 30 years on them. Price US $ 1,250.00 per kilo and unlimited production. Lasts 24 hours in the skin and many days on the cloths.... Do you want to use agarwood oils without fearing you won't have enough for your needs? Go ahead... they are jewels!!!!! They impart 99% the same smell as the genuine which are extremely expensive and not available for big projects. We succeeded!"
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post #17 of 25
5/12/13 at 11:12am
Maybe they will send you a sample. I expect it will be a chemical result of gas analysis.
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post #18 of 25
5/12/13 at 12:10pm
  • lpp
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Interesting site, Paul - nice to hear more.
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post #19 of 25
5/12/13 at 4:44pm
I have a formula that I've found that is supposed to mimic Agarwood oil, and I am slowly accumulating the elements.

One key item is certainly there in many agarwood oils, at least as I smell them.

But looking over a GC of agarwood oil, you would see several elements that are agarwood specific, because they start or include the "agar" as part of their names, like
Oxoagarospirol
beta-Agarofuran

So it would be interesting how to try to mimic those aspects in a reformulation...
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post #20 of 25
5/13/13 at 1:51am
When you look at how many oud impression perfumes that are out there, everyone else finds it interesting too!

The perfumers apprentice do one called Black agar but it is a bit dark and smoky. There is nothing quite like the real thing and there is no one the same as another, so any reformulation would have to emulate a specific kind or a feel of it. Sweet birch gives a good representation of that elastoplast side of it. I made some reproductions ages ago just for fun whilst I was obsessing with it, and it is not too difficult to get a fair representation of the front smell, but it is the longevity, the depth and most certainly the many levels of complexity that is so very hard to achieve. If you were using chems then the longevity issue wouldn't be so difficult with a touch of norimabanol or the like. Useful ingredient link here.

Beautiful oudhs dance like a shimmering veil for a very long and beautiful time. They have multitudinous depths that chems just do not have. IMO only.
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post #21 of 25
5/13/13 at 5:31am
I second Mumsy in here remarks.

I've found the Black Agar from PA a bit to sweet, amber, as if it's a accord with a hint of Oudh in it. Suits me very well in some compositions. The PA however, sells an IMHO rather good Oud blend too from Firmenich. It's not as good as the real thing (and even real Oudh differs in all kinds of varieties en qualities), but as close as you can get by aroma chemical blends.

I've done some compositions with both Black Agar and Oud Blend (F), and like to add a touch of smoke.

But then again, i've some samples from Muhammad Taftazani which i can recommend, and they are way above the aroma chemicals in terms of depth. Excellent stuff & service.
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post #22 of 25
5/13/13 at 11:23am
Yes, Muhammad is a good guy.

My oud Blend for Dirty Rose Oud coming out soon, is both oud blends, plus Cambodian ouds.
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post #23 of 25
5/18/13 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 

Given the recent revamp of this thread, which I had originated, let me add that I just received my vial of black agar from the perfumer apprentice, and it doesn't seem to be the one that gives Interlude it's characteristic opium note. I haven't smelled Interlude in a while, though, an I need to refresh the memory I have of it. Curious about the effect with the isobutyl quinoline (which I haven't smelled - any idea where to source it?)

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post #24 of 25
5/18/13 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oveis View Post

Isobutyl quinoline (which I haven't smelled - any idea where to source it?)

Perfumer's Apprentice, as Pyralone

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post #25 of 25
5/19/13 at 12:33am
Galbanum might add the green sharp aspects if it were teamed with some smoke, woods and a micro of caramelic sweetness. Maybe a benzoin or tolu sweet rather than vanillic. Elemi might add a resinic creamy edge.
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