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The Search for Green Tea Givco! Humbly Needing Help

post #1 of 19
11/1/12 at 4:31am
Thread Starter 
Hi to everyone! I've come into a minor crisis that I guess is a teaching moment for me as a amateur perfumer. I've been working with a client to compose a perfume for their brand - it's been an extremely long process, but we have finally decided on a final formula, we have a launch date, packaging, and we are ready for mixing and bottling. It comes time to order all of the ingredients, and bam! One of them is no longer available from the Perfumer's Apprentice: Green Tea Givco, which I believe is a Givaudan blend. We aren't manufacturing in the type of quantities that will enable me to order this directly from Givaudan. And I've already communicated with the Perfumer's Apprentice to see whether they actually have some available but just don't have it on the website - apparently it's no longer in stock with no plans to ever return. I don't even know if it Givaudan still makes it, even, since I can't find it on their website. I'm in a pickle. I could reformulate but A) it's a key ingredient, and B) I'm so incredibly stressed for time that I'm worried about that option. I turn humbly to you for any suggestions!
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post #2 of 19
11/1/12 at 4:50am
I may be able to help with this as it's something I use too, I only have a very small amount in stock unfortunately however: I have contacted my supplier to see what the score is: if I can get it you're looking at buying a minimum half a kilo (I will have to buy a kilo or more to be able to sell that to you) but it should get you out of the immediate problem.

My European supplier won't be able to supply you directly because the US distribution market in Givaudan ingredients belongs to Vigon (who don't stock it, as I expect you already know).
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post #3 of 19
11/1/12 at 5:08am
hello chris, what is the price/kilo?
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post #4 of 19
11/1/12 at 9:47am
Greencourt,

I had dealings w/ Vigon in the past which may come handy 4u. As Christ pointed out, Vigon has partnership agreements with both and Firmenich and Givaudan in which to market and distribute their fragrance ingredients in North America. I'd speak to David @ Sales and Jennifer @ Marketing & explain 2 them ur dire situation & c what they currently have on hand(Sometimes companies keep old inventories/deleted items). At least they could point u to the right directions. Be mindful that they will only help u if u have ALL of the following credentials

1)a chemistry ground/hired a full time chemist on ur staff
2)Provided that u have a valid business address
3)in the business of making & processing fragrances

If they try to throw their weight around & give u a hard time 4 being an amateur perfumer, ask 4 their boss Jeff Milton.

Hope that helps,
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post #5 of 19
11/1/12 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
Chris, Googl.plex, thank you for your helpful replies - I seriously appreciate the response! If there are a few more Basenoters that would be interested in having the Givaudan Green Tea on-hand I might be able to take advantage of Chris' offer. And I'll see what Vigon might have on hand or if they have any suggestions - thank you googl.plex for the contacts!

I was also wondering if anyone who has used the Green Tea Givco could point me in the right direction regarding alternatives if I (eeek!) can't seem to find the right supplier. I realize that the material probably has exclusive Givaudan chemicals in it that don't have alternatives, but regarding the general dry, round, green, occlusive effect that the Green Tea blend has: any suggestions on what I might consider when experimenting with making an alternative blend?
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post #6 of 19
11/1/12 at 1:56pm
It's Chris, not Christ; he's not the Son of God.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, I doubt if you can match Green Tea, as it is based on a Givaudan captive (originally from Quest, but Givaudan took them over).
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post #7 of 19
11/1/12 at 3:31pm
That's too bad, I didn't even realize Green Tea was taken off the PA site. I'm sure Givco still manufactures it, I can smell it in SMW. If you do decide to buy from Chris, I can take 100ml. I doubt it would be very expensive. I think PA was selling it at less than $20 per ounce.
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post #8 of 19
11/3/12 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

It's Chris, not Christ; he's not the Son of God.

She never called him Christ. There's no edit or updates in her posts.
Althought I hear tell Chris is a miracle worker at the mixing bench...
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post #9 of 19
11/3/12 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosebud View Post

She never called him Christ. There's no edit or updates in her posts.
Althought I hear tell Chris is a miracle worker at the mixing bench...

First line of googl.plex1: "As Christ pointed out"
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post #10 of 19
11/3/12 at 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otocione View Post

First line of googl.plex1: "As Christ pointed out"

Ah yeah, so it does. I was looking at greencourt, because that is who he was addressing with the rest of the post...
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post #11 of 19
11/4/12 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

It's Chris, not Christ; he's not the Son of God.

Indeed not, so far as I know I'm not even a 3rd cousin. Though the term has been used of me in a spirit of blasphemous cursing once or twice . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

By the way, I doubt if you can match Green Tea, as it is based on a Givaudan captive (originally from Quest, but Givaudan took them over).

Agreed. I did make some attempts to put together an effective substitute, including using natural green tea extracts, but nothing really came close.

- - - Updated - - -

On pricing, this is one of those ingredients where the price drops enormously if you can buy 5Kg or more at a time - buying just 1Kg costs almost as much as buying 5Kg in fact.

So to make it worth my while to take the cash-flow and storage space hits I'd need to sell on quite a lot.

I keep only a tiny number of ingredients in quantities over a Kg partly because it ties up too much money, partly because there isn't enough space for a lot of drums, partly because big drums of anything are a pain to handle and partly because not everything is stable enough to keep well and oxidised product is no use to anyone.
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post #12 of 19
11/4/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

I keep only a tiny number of ingredients in quantities over a Kg partly because it ties up too much money, partly because there isn't enough space for a lot of drums, partly because big drums of anything are a pain to handle and partly because not everything is stable enough to keep well and oxidised product is no use to anyone.

this is even more true for me, not having a business selling perfumes. i can participate for 100grams if that would help.
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post #13 of 19
11/5/12 at 10:28am
Count me in too, for up to half a kilo.
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post #14 of 19
11/10/12 at 6:44am
Count me in too.
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post #15 of 19
11/10/12 at 7:17am
Thanks for the continuing interest in this.

If can I buy 5Kg I'll be able to do this at £160 for 500g, £50 for 100ml and £20 for 30ml but I emphasise that I can only buy that amount if I have several confirmed buyers for larger quantities and if I buy just 1Kg then those prices all go up by 3-4 times because it's so much more expensive at that quantity - I suspect that would make it too expensive for most so I'm still looking for more buyers. If I get enough confirmed buyers (i.e. totalling more than 2Kg) I'll drop the prices a bit too.
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post #16 of 19
11/10/12 at 10:44am
Do we know if this item has been discontinued or not? I would sign up for 500g but if the item is no longer manufactured, I'm a little reluctant to build anything around it.

Also, is there a spec sheet available? In particular re: shelf life.
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post #17 of 19
11/11/12 at 2:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Chambers View Post

Do we know if this item has been discontinued or not? I would sign up for 500g but if the item is no longer manufactured, I'm a little reluctant to build anything around it.

Also, is there a spec sheet available? In particular re: shelf life.

Good questions - my supplier is quoting an 18 day lead time while they get it from Givaudan (who I understand make it to order) so it's certainly still available, though of course there is no guarantee it always will be.

I'm not sure it'll let me load it here, but I have scanned the spec sheet into a file that, if I can't load here, I can send if you email me.

Attachment 17511

The shelf life, as usual with these things, gives a very conservative 365 days - my existing stock is twice that age and still perfectly good.
LL
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post #18 of 19
11/12/12 at 5:25am
Hello Chris,

Thanks for sponsoring the Green Tea Givco. I would like to take 50 -100 ml, depending on price.
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post #19 of 19
11/13/12 at 10:42am
I would like to chime in for 30 ml if possible.

regards Conni
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Basenotes › Basenotes Forums › Fragrance Discussion › Fragrance DIY › The Search for Green Tea Givco! Humbly Needing Help