Issue with USPS.

I wish I could be more encouraging, but as someone who ships thousands of packages daily through the USPS, I have crossed paths with them on shipping related issues many a time, and their level of customer service and efficiency in getting things done outside the box in my experience with them has proved to be all but nonexistent. I am afraid I can only advise you to not waste your time trying to get a result with them because it most certainly will only lead to further frustration. Believe me when I say I really wish it were not the case. :-(

This has been a useful experience for me.

- - - Updated - - -

This has been a useful experience for me.

hi there i am waiting for my package from CA USA , it still has not arrived, also sent on 10th november!....and the other one that was sent from CA but different town got to me 5 days ago!!....they both had completely different routes.....the one i am still waiting for was going through New York(was there on the 19th)...where the one i recieved last week went throuhg LA.....i dont understand but i wait patiently

That is frustrating, MJM_77!

The only way to protect oneself when shipping is to purchase not only Delivery Confirmation but also insurance. DC alone isn't enough; if you don't insure, they don't accept liability, period. That's what insurance is for-- to protect the sender. Without insurance one has to refund buyers out of pocket if the item is lost (if DC doesn't show delivery) or broken. Up to $20 value, I'll take the risk, but if what I'm shipping is worth more than $20, I buy insurance.

There is a particular protocol USPS follows if you have insurance, which is why he asked you if you'd bought it; you would still have to wait 30 days before you could file a claim, but eventually you would be compensated for the lost package. No insurance, no recourse.

I know it sounds odd that they "can't" (won't) contact the facility where the package was last tracked to, but I can only assume it means they can't actively search for your package. Employees would have to stop work to sort through possibly thousands of packages, and I'm sure yours is not the only one that is missing. They wouldn't search for it even if it were insured. They would just wait for it to be sorted and returned to you as a matter of course.

When my car was stolen from right in front of my parents' house back in 1991, the police told me plainly that they wouldn't look for it. That if and when it showed up, they would contact me. That was when I learned that our city (Bridgeport) had the second highest rate of auto theft per capita in the USA, 2nd only to Los Angeles. Over 200 thefts per month. I can see why the police couldn't spend their time looking for stolen cars; they'd end up doing nothing else. But that was no comfort while I was car-less. And it's no comfort to you or your buyer, waiting for the missing package to show up, or not. You have my sympathy. (The car did show up a few days later, with $1200 worth of damage, abandoned by the joy-riders who had stolen it.)

If your buyer is willing to wait, you could re-label, insure and re-ship the perfume if USPS returns it to you. If it never returns to you, you will, sadly, need to refund your buyer out of pocket. Talk to the buyer and ask how long he is willing to wait. This could still have a happy ending.

That ordeal with the Post Office to me seems a bit bizarre. Hope the recipient gets the package soon.

My understanding is that an 'undeliverable' package is ultimately sent back to the sender's return address, which should be visible in the upper left side of the front of the package. You did have your return address on the package so that should be the case with your shipment. It should happen automatically as a matter of policy and you should not have to request anything other than perhaps speaking directly with the postmasters at both ends should this automatic return not occur within a reasonable time.

I too have had a few issues with the USPS. They don't do "customer service." They don't really need to either, they're the USPS. I had a couple packages mysteriously get lost in their system, never to be found again and of course it was at my loss. I got the same message when I opened a case, someone will contact you within a day. A few days passed and no one called, I called again and they told me nothing was found yet and that I would receive a call shortly. I gave up.

I usually have no problems with them, but every once and a while they'll completely mess up. I just received a message from someone on eBay last night saying they hadn't received their package yet, then the next day they said it was finally delivered. This was 20 days after I sent it.

They're necessary, but I always feel someone uneasy when I drop a package off and leave it in their hands.

I had an issue last spring. I dropped off a package at the P.O with a PayPal label and DC, but instead of scanning the package as "accepted" in my town, the employee who handled it scanned it as "delivered." (Evidently he had the scanner set wrong for the task.) I didn't notice this error until a few days later when I went on USPS.com to track it. I called the post office and they said not to worry, that it was undoubtedly on its way and would be scanned at the sorting facility and again on delivery.

It never updated. Days went by and the package still showed up as being in the same location-- delivered to me! So I called the post office again, and but they said as long as I had insurance, I could file a claim if it never got to the buyer. Eventually the buyer emailed to say they had received it, but do you know, it never was updated on the tracking page.

It may be that they have good reasons for not being able to help you. Who knows.

But the fact that the "helper" was not able to adequately explain the logic behind why they couldn't....that's the part that would be pissing me off.

Another option may be to fill out forms to intercept/recall the package. There is a fee for that service, but maybe then when it is scanned, the recall order will pop up and it will come back to you. (I've never used this service so that is all I know.)

About Package Intercept:
https://pi.usps.com/cpi/faq.jsp

Fee here on USPS price list is $10.95:
http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/.../Notice123.pdf

Problem is, though, it seems like the package is never quite getting near its intended destination. So I'm not sure who would intercept it....

Do you know what the error was, exactly? A change of number in the zip code? What if you phone the postmaster at the zip code to which it is being sent in error (google the local post office for that zip code) and have him nab the package and mark it "return to sender?"

- - - Updated - - -

So, googling I see zipcodes for Memphis starting with 38 and zip codes for Miami starting with 33. So the error was the second 3, right?

So re-create the zip code the way they are erroneously reading it, then google post offices for that incorrect zip code.
Phone those post offices, tell them what is happening with the package and ask them to return to sender. You may get lucky and find the post office that has actually seen the package already several times.

I have had this happen. One time I sent something to my BF 2 or 3 times and it was returned to me each time as "undeliverable"...once with the zip code crossed out and a different one written in! I still don't know what that was about. I think I wound up sending it to his work eventually and then he got it no problem.

Probably the reason why my vintage fragrance never got to me. It's been 6 weeks and counting. Grrr...

That is why, whenever possible, I pay extra to have a package sent to me via UPS or Fedex. It's worth the peace of mind.

Unless it is international, I always ship Fedex for valuable packages. Too risky with USPS.

I prefer to print out labels rather than hand-write them. My handwriting isn't very good!

I agree USPS in general has very shitty customer service, local post offices will usually help the best way they possibly can and I commend them for that.

USPS operations were heavily disrupted by Hurricane Sandy, the ISC was shut down for about a week or so, which affected package deliveries nationally other than just in the areas hit my Sandy. They neither confirmed nor denied the significance Sandy had on national deliveries, when I asked them on several occasions. I think they are still somewhat recovering so hopefully they will straighten everything out as far as your package.

'..neither confirmed nor denied etc..."

So typical of a govermental agency not to answer questions from their employers. Or maybe, they have taken over as our employers? Funny, I don't remember voting for that.

Goodness, finally! I'm glad it worked out in the end for you and your buyer.

Labels are a good idea, and so is buying insurance, when the value of the package warrants it.

I try to use UPS or another carrier especially when I ship perfumes. I don't want any items to leak or have the recipient get blamed for solvents dripping in the package.

I am happy all went well.

The other day when I went to ship something the lady actually asked if it was "perfume" I was kind of shocked but luckily wasn't unready enough to say "yes"

I guess they are starting to ask that now. I'm sort of confused by this. I know there are plenty of businesses that ship USPS and are clearly selling fragrances. I mean fragrancenet uses it to complete the shipping and their name is on the box (so ugly...)

I didn't feel bad "lying" to her though, it wasn't "perfume." It was an EDT.

They would let you send it by parcel post, though (ground.)

You can't send flammable materials via USPS unless you have a license. That's a fact and that's why they ask you if anything your sending is flammable. The problem is when you have people who don't know how to pack things an they wind up busting all over the paper mail that they deliver. Paper and alcohol = little white truck catching on fire. Fragrance retailers can ship USPS ground because they buy a license to ship flammable goods.
I don't know where your getting your facts, but they're dead wrong.

I have told my post office exactly what is in the box and they let me send it by ground.

In fact it's not just one P.O., as our town has 2, and both allow me to send by ground even knowing what is in the box.

We are talking about the difference between the official rules and what the local post office will actually allow you to do. There are people manning the postal counters, making their own decisions, interpreting the rules as they see fit, and these people are allowing my perfume to go by ground.

I think probably a lot of local post offices would do the same. That is what I'm saying.

It's a Federal entity so their rules aren't based on individual decisions or state rules. If you can get away with it that's great, but they're absolutely not supposed to mail a flammable liquid without a proper license. Those questions are in place for a reason, the same reason airlines and basically any industry that deals in transportation will ask certain questions.
I don't see why it's so hard for anyone to understand this. The USPS delivers paper mail in small open door trucks. If these small trucks get into an accident and a flammable liquid catches the paper mail on fire it's going to go up like a fireball. Now imagine 3 or 4 kids playing close to this when the truck finally explodes. It kills them all. Now what do you think is going to happen next? Lawyers are going to be coming out of the woodwork. Who's fault is it? Can't blame the person mailing the flammable liquid. The people behind the counter not only circumvented Federal law, they knew it was flammable and did nothing about it. See the problem?

Here's the HAZMAT link to the USPS https://www.usps.com/ship/can-you-ship-it.htm?showtab=2

I'm also wondering what would happen if you insured a package, it broke, and they discovered it was fragrance whether they would honor the policy.

I have had issues with the USPS as well, when you open a case an inspector is supposed to call you back within 24 hours. However, I received no response on two different occasions. There is talk of dismantling the USPS so moral could be very low and effecting customer service.

You can't ship perfume UPS either, same issue with flammability. Not even UPS ground.

I know because I just tried. They turned me away and refused to ship it.

Unless, of course, you lie about what's in the package...

Well, in theory, that might be true! But, in practice, not so much. (If you've ever called the IRS to ask clarification of anything -- you know that if you call 5 times with the same question, you'll get 5 different answers.)

Anyway, I'm interested in this discussion, as I've been sending parcel post (ground) and thought that was ok. I googled around a bit, here's an excerpt from a discussion on fragrantica:

(I hope Barolo will not mind me further disseminating this information which he/she took the time and trouble to get...)

Barolo writes, on 4-18-2012: "I just wasted an hour, or so, of my life trying to get a straight answer on the question that has been raised in a few topics around here about the legality of shipping perfumes.

First, 800-ASK-USPS could NOT answer this question, and I was referred to a mail compliance officer in Dallas.
The mail compliance officer even had some trouble with this [...]

Here's the bottom line: The only LEGAL way to ship cologne/perfume is the following: You must mark SURFACE MAIL on the package under the return address and the letters ORM-D on the package. You can ship no more than 4 oz. (of perfume...package can weigh up to 25lbs) in any single mailing piece. AND...the USPS has the right to make you open your package to prove what you're mailing is what you say it is.
There is absolutely no way to ship priority or internationally...LEGALLY.

I realize people get away with getting around these restrictions, daily, but I'd shudder to think that any of you would be made an example by USPS.


End quote

I had some stuff to ship out and had a talk with a very nice employee that explained the insurance policy to me. She explained to me that they would honor the insurance you take out on the package if it was a broken fragrance. Reason being is that they cannot open your mail without proper authority.

Long story short: I talked to head of PR for the DOT in Washington. Told him I was a fragrance blogger, and that he was on the record (actually, I told that to multiple Post Office employees until I got sent to him). If we couldn't send fragrance by mail, it was a BIG story, and I was ready to take it all the way to Fox News.

Bottom line - no story. We *CAN* ship fragrance without a license. BUT you have to follow some rules. Here is the full story, from another place where I posted it. Please forgive the grandstanding. But I was royally p.o.'ed when this happened, and I got p.o.'ed just thinking about it.


I was refused service at my post office when I gave the honest answer that my package contained fragrance samples in atomizers. In a fit of anger, I left, and called Washington. I raised hell with USPS and DOT (Department of Transportation), and got some action by playing my "journalist" card every step of the way. (I have learned a LOT from a dear lady friend about how to make sure people know I mean business!) I also spent the time reading the nearly incomprehensible regulations.

I got a nice email back - in just a few hours - from the head of PR for DOT. I will translate. The answer was sufficiently placating that I decided there was no real need to post an article. Also, the rules will be changing in 2014, to bring them in line with the rest of the world. ORM-D will disappear. The following applies to NOW.

And - BTW - I went back to the Post Office that same day. They made me de-box my fragrances from the Priority Mail boxes they were in (see below) - they would not let me just cross out Priority Mail. So I did my repackaging right there in front of everybody, like a complete asshole. Fortunately, I had brought my complete set of packing supplies with me, because I expected a lot of passive-aggressiveness on the part of the Gestapo Post Office, and I got it. I will note, however, that we've gotten along fine since then.

Resistance breeds respect.

YES - you can mail reasonable quantities of alcohol-based fragrance in the lower 48, such as samples and normal bottles (I forgot the amount - something like 1 or 2 liters - I'll have to check - but more than I've ever sent). The fragrances have to travel by ground, and they have to be packaged in such a way that they are not fragile, and can soak up the juice if the container breaks. The following packaging is acceptable:

- Reasonably hard and leak-proof bottle. Includes plastic atomizers, glass sample vials, glass/plastic/metal bottles.

- Padded sufficiently to not be fragile (bubble wrap, cardboard, etc.). I, personally, make sure it can be thrown across a room.

- Surrounded with enough porous material (wrapping paper, etc.) that any spill will be completely absorbed.

- Surrounded with plastic that will contain the wet paper - can be a plastic bag, or the plastic bubble-liner of a USPS envelope.

- Packed so that contents will not shift or suffer damage when dropped, crushed, or battered.

- Front of package needs ORM-D in block letters. This may be HAND-DRAWN, but must be neat and legible.

- Front of package needs SURFACE MAIL ONLY on it. Post office has stickers, but not always. Hand lettering fine.

- They CANNOT go by Priority Mail, which always travels by air. First Class Parcel is best. Parcel Post (3rd class) is slower.

You will notice that most big stores ship fragrances using bottle / maker's box / absorbent padding / plastic bag / shipping box (although the plastic bag is sometimes inside the padding). They also have ORM-D labels. You can use those as models of the proper size and appearance of your hand-drawn ORM-D. I use a black permanent marker to make my ORM-D marking.

There are actually minor wordings in the regulations, which tend to indicate where the ORM-D and SURFACE MAIL ONLY should go on the label, but it is not 100% clear. I tend to put the ORM-D to the left of the recipient name, and SURFACE MAIL ONLY below it.

Hope this is helpful!

I'm really starting to wonder if the UPS lady that turned me away the other day knew what she was talking about. She was extremely serious that she could NOT ship my BBW body spray. But I've been told by um...everyone else...that UPS CAN ship these things by GROUND.

I'm starting to suspect that she didn't. And I'm even more beginning to realize that, it's luck of the draw- if you get a P.O. or UPS person who knows the rules for real or doesn't...and if you're honest on the package declaration and you get one that doesn't know the rules (as I SUSPECT though can't be certain happened in my case) you'll get the run around like I did the other day.

Kaelee - I ran into exactly the same thing. So many USPS staff who didn't know the answer, and each of them had glommed onto some *different*, half-baked set of rules that they had accumulated from hearsay and misinformed reading, just to try to get the job done. I can *totally* sympathize with their plight.

I'll be honest - I have an advanced degree, and for years I worked as both an editor and as a person who deciphered patents. And I have trouble straightening out those regulations. In some cases, I just throw up my hands and say "I think they mean this, but I'm not sure."

Does anybody in the government REALLY think even half of the USPS employees will understand those regulations?

So far, only two of my postal clerks seem to know the regs as well as I do. One is a fairly geeky guy who digs into things, seemingly in conflict with getting his job done, and the other is a young immigrant, who is probably very sharp and underemployed, as many new immigrants are.

You know what - I may just go ahead and do a big post about this. I can actually include full quotes from the person at DOT, and that way people could just call up the URL on their smartphone and show the people behind the counter.

Sad it comes to that, but if we don't organize against this, then individually, we're actually at the mercy of misinterpreted over-regulation.

That would be an interesting read for sure! And yea, I had to wonder. Yes, body spray IS technically flammable. It contains alcohol (and also a fair amount of water.) If you want to get technical about it, there are a LOT of things that are flammable.

The lady even told me that they have trouble with some Mary Kay cosmetics, because you wouldn't think that they'd be flammable but they are. (What the heck cosmetic has a low enough flash point to be classified as flammable? I am racking my brain trying to figure THAT one out.) I'm beginning to think she overdoes the rules....she was all "well if you hadn't put this on the sheet..." Then told me that SHE couldn't ship it regardless, because "I know it's in there..." (see, very serious).

But then in the same sentence told me to go to another UPS store and LIE ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE PACKAGE. Hmm.....

(In reality, I think she didn't understand the regulations and wanted to help me send BF's Christmas present.)

So to sum it up: The US Government can't run a business.

Here's what I do not get with this whole air thing.

If you fly commercial airlines, you can legally pack, up to a certain amount (not sure what it is) your perfumes into your suitcase that goes in the belly of the plane, so why can't the USPS move it on an airplane?

I would think it would have something to do with the screening process. They don't have time to screen every package, whereas a passenger jet will have all it's carry-on's scanned and checked luggage (cargo).
Another thing you have to watch out for is if you send decant's the air pressure can suck the juice right out of the bottle. It's happened to me a couple of times.

She definitely didn't, as you definitely can and I have seen a major fulfillment house shipping hundreds of fragrance packages for a popular mainstream fragrance company direct to consumers via UPS Ground every day of the week first hand. They do need ORM-D labels, however.

I just read an article about how the USPS is changing the way they advertise and market themselves to attract more customers. The article also mentioned that this would probably not be enough to save the USPS from eventually having to go out of business because of the huge amount of red ink they incur every year.

What nobody inside the USPS ever seems to get is that the USPS could actually be much closer to breaking even and draw much more business if they would just do what almost every other business does these days and focus on actual customer service. Quit telling us that looking for a package is against policy, actually run a tacking system that tracks packages(more than once I've checked a tracking number on a package that said it was still somewhere in Ohio or wherever when it happened to be in my living room already delivered because my local post office is horrible at scanning incoming packages), and put a little fear into the slow as a sun dial people that work at the counters in the post offices. I know they're still technically government employees but c'mon you want to still have a job in three years move your ass a little.

See, she told me that the reason that companies can ship them is because they have a special license.

I don't know about a special license... I *do* know that if you are a company you have to have any employees that could handle the ORM-D goods go through ORM-D training. It is really ridiculous, IMO. That said, as just a normal consumer shipping a good I don't believe the training is necessary.

I don't know drseid. I had a Basenote's member in a swap, put a bottle of Tea for Two in a non bubbled mailer without any additional packing. Needless to say the bottle was crushed when I received it. Told him to send me back my bottle I swapped for his and to make sure it was bubble wrapped and put in a box. Well..I received my bottle in a non bubbled mailer with no bubble wrap again and it crushed the box, but the bottle survived (LIDGE). Some people's kids......

Yikes! That said, while it has been nearly 10 years since I had to have the warehouse do the training for the product we needed it for, I somehow think the training was mainly revolving handling the goods while they were in the warehouse of all things. It was very expensive training and every single person who could potentially come into contact with the goods from handling the receipt of the goods through handing the outbound shipment to the carrier needed to be trained. I remember being quite annoyed with the whole thing at the time...

Really makes you wonder if this "very expensive training" is just a cleverly disguised "tax".