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Terminology

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Hello all. I'm unclear on some terms I keep coming across, and I wanted to see if someone could enlighten me. Mostly they're terms related to musks. Here goes:

I've seen Celestolide described as adding 'brilliance' and 'brightness' to blends, and I'm not sure what that means. I can't smell Celestolide very well myself, and I'm not sure I've ever been able to notice what it does to a blend. Can someone help me understand?

"Cosmetic volume" I've seen this phrase before, and someone has explained it to me once, but I want to see if I can get a fuller picture of it. I've seen Cosmone described as imparting 'cosmetic volume' to a blend (as opposed to Velvione's 'powdery volume' or methyl laitone's 'fruity volume').

Lastly, I've read that using too much of a heavy chemical like ambroxan can 'flatten' a blend. What does that mean? Is it flattening in the sense of flattening the 'notes pyramid' or more in the sense of weighing the fragrance down and inhibiting diffusion?

Thanks
Ed
post #2 of 8
OK, let me have a go:

Brilliance and brightness - celestolide is 'brighter' than most other musks, but other than in that comparative context I'm not sure it's really right to call it bright, but the general idea here is that celestolide is more transparent than most musks, which are heavier and more 'flattening' if you like. Other things you would use to brighten a blend would normally be in the top to middle note range such as floralozone, calone, ultrazure, menthol or the like.

Cosmetic volume I think I've only ever seen used of cosmone and I'm not quite sure what they mean by the cosmetic part, but in general musks and things like Iso E Super, Kephalis, Kohinool and so forth are used to make a blend feel fuller, less transparent and thicker - perhaps velvety too. Powdery volume is just a combination of this with powdery, which is a distinctive effect exhibited by quite a few materials and instantly recognisable but I can't think of another way to describe it beyond 'powdery' and it's the same with juicy volume, though in that case it almost always means somewhat fatty or lactonic as well as fruity.

I can't imagine any amount of ambroxan flattening a blend as it's one of, if not the, best exalting fixatives there is, imparting great diffusion to a blend as well as longevity. However you can certainly get a flattening effect from many fixatives - overdoing them results in a blend that is too heavy and lacks any sparkle or 'juiciness' - Glucam P-20 is a useful fixative for the most ethereal of top-notes but over-use can easily result in a 'flat' and dull with the top notes pulled down and diffusion reduced.

Does that help?
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Yes, that does help, Chris. Thanks!

I feel like I've seen the cosmetic descriptor for something else, but I can't remember what. Perhaps it was only Cosmone.

And perhaps I was thinking Glucam P20 when I mentioned flattening, but said ambroxan because it was a heavy molecule that popped into my head. What are some other long lasting notes that have the exalting effect? Are there musks that boost a fragrance and 'push it up,' as it were?
post #4 of 8
yes there are. if i remember well, exaltolide, ambrettolide.
post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by gido View Post

yes there are. if i remember well, exaltolide, ambrettolide.


Agreed - ambrettolide is one of the best - I would also add Romandolide to that list, I think it's diffusiveness is better than Galaxolide to which it smells very similar. Muscone has this effect too.
post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

Agreed - ambrettolide is one of the best - I would also add Romandolide to that list, I think it's diffusiveness is better than Galaxolide to which it smells very similar. Muscone has this effect too.

When you say muscone, do you mean the l-muscone or isomuscone? I can get the latter from the Perfumer's Apprentice, but I don't know where to get muscone or l-muscone, which I think i've read are very expensive.

And since I'm speaking of materials, do you or anyone out there know where I can buy a very small amount of Geosmin? It's one of those things (there are others) that I've been dying to smell since I heard of it, but I can't find anywhere to buy it.
post #7 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by edshepp View Post

When you say muscone, do you mean the l-muscone or isomuscone? I can get the latter from the Perfumer's Apprentice, but I don't know where to get muscone or l-muscone, which I think i've read are very expensive.

They are very similar and I used the generic term to mean either. I have a tiny sample of l-muscone only and can't find anywhere to buy it except direct from Takasago, which entails buying tons so not much help I'm afraid. Iso-muscone is fairly widely available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edshepp View Post

And since I'm speaking of materials, do you or anyone out there know where I can buy a very small amount of Geosmin? It's one of those things (there are others) that I've been dying to smell since I heard of it, but I can't find anywhere to buy it.

SAFC sell it, but as it would cost about £500 for 10 milligrams it isn't something I'm planning on buying from them!
post #8 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post

SAFC sell it, but as it would cost about £500 for 10 milligrams it isn't something I'm planning on buying from them!

wow. that's not cheap!

10mg will last you a while though, "the human nose is extremely sensitive to geosmin and is able to detect it at concentrations as low as 5 parts per trillion."

but i wouldn't spend 500 pounds on it either.
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