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always absolutes?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I have read that absolutes have a more accurate smell to the plant than essential oils.
I have a harder time getting small amounts of absolutes than I do EOs.

My question is: Are there any EOs that are comparable enough to use in a fragrance?

I notice that woods, in particular, smell pretty dead on. Lavender I think smells close, if concentrated, in EO form.
So maybe using less EO will get a similar smell?

I'm sorry if I missed this thread somewhere else.
post #2 of 18
it's funny you mention lavender. the absolute is considered much closer to the real plant, the eo is traditionally considered the typical perfumery lavender note though.

the other thing you mention are woods. i could be wrong, but i don't think there are any absolutes made from wood.

i am not sure if accurate is the right description. i consider these oils as tools, in the way a painter looks at his paint, and lavender abs is just a different tool than lavender eo.

as for recreation/approximation of a natural phenomenon, lavenders today smell and less less like lavender than in the past. i suspect very little oil is used (if any at all) and absolutely no absolute. most of it is synthetic reconstruction, using only certain aspects (clean most important, floral comes next.) consumers seem to be afraid of the terpenic and herbal aspects of lavender, so these are left out. such a shame! fortunately, there are still numbers of good to great lavenders out there!

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i didn't really answer you question. i do not know the answer. i might find that lavender eo is not the same as the real thing, but you can think otherwise.

some eo's are pretty close, some have a resemblance, and a good few are something else than the natural material altogether. i can only suggest that you smell them and make up your own mind. see them as tools for creation, building blocks for construction.
post #3 of 18
I think there are very few perfumes that smell identical to certain plants. But the human brain is a wonderful thing, we can smell crushed lavender leaves, lavender eo and synthetic lavender perfume and still recognise all of it as lavender. Is there any reason why you are wanting to make nature identical perfumes? To my mind perfume is more like an impressionist painting than a photograph, and the result is a lot more interesting because of it.
post #4 of 18
The only thing your nose can recognize are molecules. Different combinations of molecules cause you to perceive different odours. Essential Oils (EOs) are extracted one way, and Absolutes are extracted another way. Essential oils are obtained by steam distillation. This subjects the molecules in the natural material to water in the form of boiling hot 100 degree C steam which pulls certain molecules out of the natural product and takes them into a condenser where they reform as a liquid EO. Absolutes are obtained by subjecting the natural product to a solvent, usually hexane, which pulls molecules out at relatively low temperatures by taking advantage of their solubility in hexane. The hexane solvent is then heated slightly and completely evaporated away, leaving nothing but the absolute. So in the first case, you are getting molecules that can withstand high heat and boiling. In the second case (absolutes) you have molecules that dissolve easily in hexane. In each case you are getting particular combinations of molecular components of the original natural material. In both cases the natural product has been subjected to un-natural processes to extract these molecules, so the molecules are interesting, and have amazing smells, but these may not be exactly the same as the true natural fragrant head-space around the original natural product which is not being subjected to these extraction techniques. Neither EOs nor Absolutes are "accurate". They offer one "take" or one way of capturing the smell of a natural product, but they are unique in their own way, and should be used, as suggested above, as components of a totally new artistic creation.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
So am I mistaken about absolutes having some quality that makes them more advantageous to use in perfume?
post #6 of 18
Other more knowledgeable basenoters may chime in to correct me, but as far as I can determine there is no particular advantage. However, there is a big difference. I had a great lesson on this subject in 2012. There is a herb that grows in Spain and Portugal and many other places around the Mediterranean called Cistus ladanifer also known as "Rock rose". I discovered this plant last summer on a trip to the Alentejo, a semi arid region of oak forests in Eastern Portugal. It was growing all over the place, at the edge of woods and along roadsides. The smell of the resin in the Spring sun was intoxicating. I collected some and dried it and brought it home to tincture in alcohol. This has resulted in a usable fragrance component, but nowhere near as good as the EO and the Absolute from Cistus ladanifera that you can buy online. I obtained the EO, which is typically called "Cistus" and the absolute, which is called "Labdanum" from Eden Botanicals. They both contain components of the wonderful smell of fresh Cistus ladanifera growing wild, and they are both just gorgeous, but they are different. Cistus has this dry "hairy" and pungent smell, while labdanum has this sweet warm amber balsamic quality. I love them both, but they are different. I don't think one is more advantageous, but for different purposes in different perfumes you can use either one, or both. I guess your job as a perfumer is to learn the differences between all the different essential oils, absolutes, and other extractions, such as CO2 and fractional distillates among tinctures and enfleurages. Each method will extract different molecules from the original natural product, so all the different forms have to be obtained and smelled.
post #7 of 18
btw absolutes tend to last longer than the eo from the same source material. you will find that there are many absolutes that are basenotes, but not so many essential oils. the product from distillation is per definition rather volatile. absolutes on the other hand can be solid. if there is an oakmoss eo (i've never heard of such a thing) it would not have the same fixative properties as the absolute.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshell View Post

I guess your job as a perfumer is to learn the differences between all the different essential oils, absolutes, and other extractions, such as CO2 and fractional distillates among tinctures and enfleurages. Each method will extract different molecules from the original natural product, so all the different forms have to be obtained and smelled.

oh. That is both disconcerting and exciting.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshell View Post

Absolutes are obtained by subjecting the natural product to a solvent, usually hexane, which pulls molecules out at relatively low temperatures by taking advantage of their solubility in hexane. The hexane solvent is then heated slightly and completely evaporated away, leaving nothing but the absolute.

Actually what you get is called a "Concrete". It contains not only the smelly bits that you are interested in but also other substances which are soluble in Hexane, such as waxes. To get the Absolute it is necessary to dissolve the Concrete in Absolute alcohol (the clue is in the name), then filter off those unwanted materials which are not soluble and remove the alcohol. Concretes tend to be cheaper than Absolutes (one less stage in manufacture, more product) and used to be used in cheaper, non alcoholic products like soap or detergents. Concretes are not fully soluble in alcohol and so cannot be used in fine fragrance perfumery.

Essential Oils tend to be more volatile than Absolutes (Absolutes are usually Base Notes), but neither really duplicate the smell of the living plant. In the case of flowers , the smell changes during the day and during the life of the flower as the ratio of chemicals produced by the flower changes. Also to extract the Essential Oil or Absolute it is necessary to remove the part of the plant you are interested in, and so kill it.

I'm not sure why you would want to duplicate exactly the smell of the living plant, but if you do the best way is by using the technique called "Head Space analysis". This only woks for flowers and you end up with a copy using synthetics (nature identical chemicals).

One's job as a perfumer is to learn the differences in performance between Absolutes, Essential Oils and Chemicals. and to be able to predict (to a certain extent) what happens when you mix them together.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
I am not looking to copy the smell of a plant exactly.
Sometimes EOs take in the must and roughage of a plant and can smell vegetal or medicinal.
I mainly wanted to know what the reason for using absolutes was over EOs.
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

Actually what you get is called a "Concrete". It contains not only the smelly bits that you are interested in but also other substances which are soluble in Hexane, such as waxes. To get the Absolute it is necessary to dissolve the Concrete in Absolute alcohol (the clue is in the name), then filter off those unwanted materials which are not soluble and remove the alcohol. Concretes tend to be cheaper than Absolutes (one less stage in manufacture, more product) and used to be used in cheaper, non alcoholic products like soap or detergents. Concretes are not fully soluble in alcohol and so cannot be used in fine fragrance perfumery.

You've made some excellent points. I'd like to add a few additional points, if I may. Concretes are extracted from fresh, undried plant materials, with non-polar solvents. The extracts are often called oleoresins when dried plant material is used or when the plant extract is of a more resinous nature. Concretes often have more of a fresh smell because the plant material that is used is fresh. However, as non-polar solvents are used to make concretes, there is the potential for some of the more polar aroma compounds to be left behind in the plant material. Sometimes the plant material that is used heavily favors non-polar aroma compounds, so the concrete will closely resemble the aroma of the fresh plant. Other times, the plant material less heavily favors non-polar aroma compounds and the concrete therefore less closely resembles the aroma of the fresh plant.

Depending on the plant material used, it is sometimes better to use a solvent that has both polar and non-polar qualities, such as ethanol. Ethanol is largely polar but it also has a non-polar carbon chain. This allows both polar and non-polar aroma compounds to be extracted in good measure. It may still leave behind some of the most non-polar aroma compounds but it will extract everything between the polar and moderately non-polar. The reason why alcohol is used to make absolutes, is because it can dissolve most of the non-polar aroma compounds in the concrete but much less so the oleaginous substances (waxes, fats), which are extremely non-polar. The alcohol extract is then chilled to around -20°C, to precipitate any remaining oleaginous substances.

Another thing that has a bearing on the end product is the temperature required for extraction. Obviously a fair amount of heat is needed to produce essential oils. Although, if a vacuum pump is used, much lower temperatures are required. The temperature and pressure required to remove the solvent in extracts is also important. The removal of hexane requires heat or a vacuum, which can lead to some of the aroma compounds being lost during evaporation of the solvent. The same is true with many other solvents, including alcohol. CO2 sublimates without the addition of any heat or a vacuum, so there's no chance for any aroma compounds to be lost during solvent removal. Refrigerant gases like hydro-fluorocarbons are sometimes used for extraction because they also require no heat or a vacuum during solvent removal. Such extracts are called phytols or florasols. Butane is also sometimes used for the same reasons and the extracts are then known as butaflors.

The other thing to consider is that during distillation of essential oils, some of the polar aroma compounds can become dissolved in the water and become separated from the essential oil fractions. The byproducts of which are called floral waters or hydrosols. If you were to combine both the essential oil and it's hydrosol together in a fragrance, you may end up with something that more closely resembles the aroma of the plant.


Pears
post #12 of 18
Thanks to David and Pears for correcting and expanding on my initial attempt to explain the difference between essential oils and absolutes. Much appreciated.
post #13 of 18
Thanks to David and Pears for correcting and expanding on my initial attempt to explain the difference between essential oils and absolutes. Much appreciated.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys for the info! Tis a good map to educate myself about. I'm gonna delve into hydrosols next, then (and the other low-heat extractions.)
post #15 of 18
hydrasols. they don't keep too long, and they mix only to some extend with alcohol (and not with oil at all).
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gido View Post

hydrasols. they don't keep too long, and they mix only to some extend with alcohol (and not with oil at all).

Top note only, eh? What's your combination of extracts look like?
post #17 of 18
The best known hydrosols are Rose Water and Orange Flower Water; both used in cooking. It would be difficult to mix hydrosols with any oil because of the water content.

Molecular distillation (using a vacuum) and CO2 extractions are used to prevent too high a temperature with the potential for damage to the extract; both smell different to the equivalent steam distilled Essential oil.

Trying to solvent extract using only alcohol without the non polar solvent step results in a Tincture. Not all plants are susceptible to this process; in fact very few are. Vanilla is the best example. Again Vanilla tincture and Vanilla Absolute smell different to each other.

All of these extracts can be used to achieve the desired effect.
post #18 of 18
I think that the best way to combine them would be to first dissolve the essential oils in the alcohol and then mix the alcohol into the hydrosol. Alcohol and water are miscible. It would be a good idea for the fragrance to contain a minimum of 18% alcohol, as microorganisms cannot grow in anything at or above this concentration.
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