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BPAL dups?

post #1 of 17
1/1/13 at 12:42am
Thread Starter 
The conceptual fragrance site BPAL fascinates me, although the prices don't, esp. once you factor in O/S shipping.
Has anyone here had a go at duping BPAL and did they have any success? (umm, am I allowed to ask that question, as well?)
Personally the descriptions are so evocative, that without referring to their scents I intend to take some of their poetic descriptions as leap off points for myself in experimentation. They give such fanciful names to their ingredients that one of the puzzles I engage with is to figure out what fragrances they are using, and have identified about 90% of the ingredients I read about as something you can get on Perfumers Apprentice.
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post #2 of 17
1/1/13 at 4:30am
Brimstone, Saltpeter, Opium it sounds funny. Maybe you can fly after use? But I think they will use a lot of Patchouli and Tonka, Incense and Vetyver, and Styrax pyr.

And fanciful, implausible names to their ingredients, is the whole perfume industry.
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post #3 of 17
1/1/13 at 4:53am
I have discovered, by accident, that most BPAL makings are just diluted fragrance oils that you can buy cheaply and in bulk here:
http://www.saveonscents.com
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com

They have a 'sea of glass' scent or something like that, that is identical to
Crafters Choice™ Sea Glass Fragrance Oil 215

Sometimes they add a bit of essential oils like vetiver and patchouli to the mix et voila.
It's mostly marketing. It would be more fun to just experiment yourself and let your creative juices flow

p.s. there is something wrong with the saveonscents link, it goes to spam-like sites, guess it says it all
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post #4 of 17
1/1/13 at 6:53am
Ohh, that sounds so boring. And I had hoped, the devil himself would be here mix the perfume.
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post #5 of 17
1/2/13 at 2:03am
My first reaction was....why on earth would you want to dupe those horrible scents? I was into BPAL for a while and despite sampling over a hundred of their scents I found nothing to really recommend them. Many smell like standard fragrance oils as alluded to above. Better to be inspired by poetry and fantasy yourself and creating our own. At least then you are not throwing money at the BPAL lottery and are instead building your perfumers organ.
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post #6 of 17
1/2/13 at 6:35pm
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=Irina;2800118]I have discovered, by accident, that most BPAL makings are just diluted fragrance oils that you can buy cheaply and in bulk here:
http://www.saveonscents.com
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com

Thank you very much for those links. I only today got a rejected order from essentialdepot! On the grounds of being in Australia. At saveonscents I just found cheaper bulk EOs than the "sale" ones I had tried to order from essentialdepot! I don't know how I missed saveonscents! I thought I'd found all the non retail companies I could use already! (Like my Dad used to say, "Never pay retail"). I buy from US a lot because mostly even when you add shipping it still works out cheaper than buying here, not to mention we have not so many choices over here.

I love all the replies I got to this thread, I wondered if BPAL was as good as it sounds, and apparently the answer is No.

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I'd been hoping to see the devil fiddling while another devil mixed up scents! And creative fire flew out of the resultant mixes..
(but now I am making obscure references to the origins of the Devil, in the old gods of sun and light..)

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Thanks for that. It is informative to see your opinion, dislike even after 100 scents from BPAL, I think that tells me all I need to know! My reason for thinking dups was to hopefully save some money! I have wrecked small amounts of EOs in my experiments in the past, less so when I follow ratio rules that I have found tho', I hate wrecking things.

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You have to add henbane for a proper flying ointment.
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post #7 of 17
1/3/13 at 1:36pm
I agree, that it is best to use your own inspiration to blend custom perfumes for yourself and others. However I will also say that, yes, if you did scour the wholesaler frags, you could probably easily find the components used to recreate them.

I feel I have to add that scent, just like taste, is completely subjective. For example, I dont tend to like rose-heavy fragrances... but I would never say that all rose fragrances are a waste of time. Just as I tend to gravitate to complex orientals, I would not roll my eyes to someone that likes aldehyde-laden fruity-florals.
I actually like a good number of BPAL scents, however living near Los Angeles I'm able to try before I buy, which has helped. I can understand an elitist perfume snob not liking them though, as they are fairly straight forward scents. If it says it has amber, leather, apricot, and neroli, well, then, you'll most likely be able to smell each note. They dont focus on using 56 aroma chemicals to bring about perfume-y overtones to their scents. It definitely is not traditional perfume. But if you like Demeter scents, or well blended straight forward note combos, then I would suggest giving them a shot.

Note: I'm not suggesting that they dont use aroma chemicals, just that in-general, its to make a more life-like note, as opposed to a perfume-y one.
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post #8 of 17
1/3/13 at 2:36pm
The problem with BPAL for aussies is the shipping, even if you join decant circles it will still be expensive in order to try enough fragrances to find one you like and possibly want a bottle of. Most of the ones I tried had a character like a candle scent, nice enough but not what I would wear as a perfume. And even if you do get a bottle of something you like, dilute it in alcohol to EDP strength you'll find its just as expensive per ml as any commercial perfume and not quite as satisfying. That was my experience anyway.

After BPAL i decided I could go one of two ways. Buy fragrance bases from places like Brambleberry etc and get nice scents with a simple character for a lot less than BPAL per ml. Or I could invest in learning to make scents myself. I chose the latter and haven't regretted it. Like you though my early efforts were frustratingly poor and expensive as EOs arent cheap at all here. I turned the corner when I did this...

Invested in the classic perfume materials even though they were expensive. Rose and jasmin absolute, oakmoss, labdanum and galbanum. I could never acheive a proper perfume vibe until I had these materials. They are ubiquitous in the classic perfumes.

Invested in a little education. I bought some old perfumery books from the Victorian era and they contained some basics that have helped me along. As well as reading every thread in this forum when I have time. Every thread has a little hint here and there dropped by others over the years that have been the solution for many small irritations I've encountered.

While I'm a long way from making anything that could be called a perfume, I am making scents which I enjoy wearing and loving my new hobby. My wastage now is very low and its fun to let a failure sit a whiile then come back to it, add something new and watch it transform for good or ill.
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post #9 of 17
1/3/13 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraAus View Post

The problem with BPAL for aussies is the shipping, even if you join decant circles it will still be expensive in order to try enough fragrances to find one you like and possibly want a bottle of. Most of the ones I tried had a character like a candle scent, nice enough but not what I would wear as a perfume. And even if you do get a bottle of something you like, dilute it in alcohol to EDP strength you'll find its just as expensive per ml as any commercial perfume and not quite as satisfying. That was my experience anyway.

After BPAL i decided I could go one of two ways. Buy fragrance bases from places like Brambleberry etc and get nice scents with a simple character for a lot less than BPAL per ml. Or I could invest in learning to make scents myself. I chose the latter and haven't regretted it. Like you though my early efforts were frustratingly poor and expensive as EOs arent cheap at all here. I turned the corner when I did this...

Invested in the classic perfume materials even though they were expensive. Rose and jasmin absolute, oakmoss, labdanum and galbanum. I could never acheive a proper perfume vibe until I had these materials. They are ubiquitous in the classic perfumes.

Invested in a little education. I bought some old perfumery books from the Victorian era and they contained some basics that have helped me along. As well as reading every thread in this forum when I have time. Every thread has a little hint here and there dropped by others over the years that have been the solution for many small irritations I've encountered.

While I'm a long way from making anything that could be called a perfume, I am making scents which I enjoy wearing and loving my new hobby. My wastage now is very low and its fun to let a failure sit a whiile then come back to it, add something new and watch it transform for good or ill.

Where did you find perfumery books from the Victorian era?
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post #10 of 17
1/3/13 at 6:50pm
Local specialists in out of print books. They were quite common titles for the time so the price was reasonable. I believe you could find them in most major libraries too. If not the original then probably a reprint or scan on disk. I have an historical interest in perfumery and was more interested in the common practices of the day rather than learning modern perfumery. These books include recipes for toilet waters, salves and other common household items of the day as well. I have many hobbies that centre around learning the lost arts of the past. History is my passion you could say, as are handicrafts.
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post #11 of 17
1/4/13 at 6:32am
Are you buying your foundation materials (oakmoss, labdanum,etc) in their least processed forms? Or, are you buying them all ready diluted? Just curious as I have been working with similar materials and am learning as I go. I have some benzoin resin and haven't attempted to dilute it yet. Do you have experience with benzoin resin?
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post #12 of 17
1/4/13 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly11 View Post

Are you buying your foundation materials (oakmoss, labdanum,etc) in their least processed forms? Or, are you buying them all ready diluted? Just curious as I have been working with similar materials and am learning as I go. I have some benzoin resin and haven't attempted to dilute it yet. Do you have experience with benzoin resin?

We're getting a bit off topic here, but maybe someone else wants to know too.

I've bought all my resins as crude resin and diluted them myself including benzoin. I'm diluting in oil and find most resins will dilute given a little encouragement with some gentle heat. Benzoin sumatra is the one I've had no success with though in that medium. Benzoin tonkinensis readily dissolved with some crystals left over but the sumatran just stayed in chunks and imparted nothing. Since neither smelt of anything special I just decided to omit them from my creations.
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post #13 of 17
1/4/13 at 1:50pm
Thanks for the info.
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post #14 of 17
1/9/13 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=ClaraAus;2802253]

Invested in the classic perfume materials even though they were expensive. Rose and jasmin absolute, oakmoss, labdanum and galbanum. I could never acheive a proper perfume vibe until I had these materials. They are ubiquitous in the classic perfumes.

I am curious, how much of the absolutes did you buy to begin with, and what percentage dilutions did you use?
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post #15 of 17
1/9/13 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=ClaraAus;2802253]

Invested in the classic perfume materials even though they were expensive. Rose and jasmin absolute, oakmoss, labdanum and galbanum. I could never acheive a proper perfume vibe until I had these materials. They are ubiquitous in the classic perfumes.

I am curious, how much of the absolutes did you buy to begin with, and what percentage dilutions did you use?

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I am curious, what amounts of absolutes did you begin with, and what dilutions did you use? I have bravely ordered a whole 17mls of the 2 cheapest absolutes I could find on NewDirections.com.au, but wonder how far 6mls of the expensive ones, will go.
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post #16 of 17
1/9/13 at 11:20pm
They are different strengths depending on the material. Some are more overpowering than others. I find Jasmin to be very overpowering and I only bought 5mls. I use it diluted at 10% but even then its extremely strong and I use very little. Labdanum is also very strong but also quite cheap if you buy the crude resin, dilute and filter it. This is what I've got in te absolute stakes....

Oakmoss 5ml, this will probably last years since its so strong.
Bulgarian Rose 10mls,
Jasmin sambac 5mls, really powerful, in the same category as oakmoss
Tobacco 5mls havent used it yet. Bought it in the hermitage sale for a song.

Labdanum and galbanum I have are crude resins rather than absolutes. They are inexpensive and easy enough to work with. I dilute most things to 20% and go from there.

I didnt buy my absolutes from ND's. They charge an extremely high price and you will get much better value from Hermitage oils which is where I got my expensive stuff from. I was very happy with the product and service from Hermitage and saved a good amount even paying shipping on a small order. I have used ND for years for other items and have mixed feelings about them. Their pricing can be very high for certain items, you need to shop around and be careful not to pay too much. As an example I paid roughly $15 AUD for my tobacco absolute about $100 less than ND charge. Although their labdanum and oakmoss are reasonably priced.
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post #17 of 17
1/11/13 at 12:12am
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the lead on Hermitage. It has a number of things I've not seen elsewhere
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