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The good, the bad and the ugly - Oriental rose scents

post #1 of 35
1/11/13 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 
Spicy/Oriental Rose is my favourite genre amongst all rose based scents. I find rose to be a tricky note when it's all on it's own, but juxtaposed with a dash of saffron or oud, the rose simply develops into something mesmeric.

There are a plethora of rose-saffron and rose-oud scents both in the designer as well as in the niche market. Oftentimes, I find most of these scents to be generic, overpriced tripe, but there are a few ones which absolutely justify their astronomical price tags. Pretty much every brand worth it's salt has a spicy/oriental rose scent in the market, and those which don't are catching up (can't wait to test Serge's La Fille de Berlin).

Which are some of your favourite spicy/oriental rose scents? Which are the ones which are just darned awful or grossly overpriced? And which ones have proved to be the rank scrubbers?
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post #2 of 35
1/11/13 at 6:46pm
I couldn't agree with you more, whimsicaldiva! I was just discussing rose scents with another BN friend, & how I had dismissed them a while back as being too dated for consideration. They've come a long way baby! The spicier scents are right up my alley too. So far the one I found to be FB worthy is Lyric Woman. Sadly Portrait of a Lady was a total scrub for me. I was just too overwhelmed by it, but perhaps I should give it another go...very very lightly. I've not yet ventured into the ouds...they do intimidate me a bit. But I will be very interested to hear what others have to say here!
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post #3 of 35
1/11/13 at 7:07pm
Thread Starter 
+1 on Amouage Lyric Woman. It's sublime and achingly beautiful. Another extraordinary spicy rose scent os Ormonde Jayne's Ta'if. The availability is extremely limited and not a single online or bricks and mortal retailer in the US carries Ormonde Jayne. The only way we can order is scents is directly via the website. It's a shame though, because ALL of Ormonde Jayne's scents are likely to sell extremely well in the US if it were only carried by stores like Sephora, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, Macy's, Saks etc. All the scents are right up the American consumers' street. Another spicy-rose scent which isn't available Stateside is Rosine's Rose Kashmerie. Not terribly groundbreaking, but very very beautiful nonetheless. Yet another stunning rose scent which is hard to come by is Guerlain's recently released Rose Nacree du Desert. Very, very expensive and equally hard to come by, and it's stunning, even if a tad unoriginal.

Another fantastic spicy rose scent is Tom Ford's Noir de Noir. There's a soupçon of oud in this, but it's ever so subtle that an unsuspecting wearer wouldn't even notice it. This isn't especially widely available, but one shouldn't have a problem finding these in big cities. Another scent which I own in FB is Francis Kurkdjian's Lumeire Noire Pour Femme. It's a rose-patch stunner, very, very elegant and sophisticated. It was putatively created exclusively for Catherine Deneuve, who then allowed it to be released more widely. Kilian's Rose Oud is another scent I own in FB, but I don't wear it much. I only ever got it because I stumbled upon a terrific deal on ebay and couldn't pass it up. It's a lovely, lovely scent, though. Certainly one of the best from in Kilian line. I also own Montale's Black Aoud, but I have a love hate relationship with it. I wear it sporadically since I get tired of it if I wear it more than 3 days on the trot. Neela Vermeire's Mohur is another newly released Oriental rose scent which is unbelievably beautiful. A tad powdery though, so if one doesn't mind the powder, it's an impeccable rose scent currently in production.

I own a small 4ml decant of Portrait of a Lady. I like it very much - I wore it quite a few times last autumn - but I don't think I love it enough to get a FB. There's a certain berry note which doesn't sit well with me. Also, I happen to think PoaL smells better on a man. It's just a tad too intense and baroque on me and ends up smothering me.

By the way, has anyone tried Armani Privé's Rose d’Arabie? I've been meaning to test it for aeons. Amouage's Homage attar is supposed to be another oriental rose scent, but I haven't tested that either. Juliette has a Gun is a line exclusively devoted to rose scents, and have a couple of Oriental roses in their line-up - Midnight Oud for a start, but I haven't tested them either.
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post #4 of 35
1/11/13 at 8:18pm
I'm a big fan of Amouage Lyric. I'm currently saving up for a full bottle.

I also love spicy rose scents. I'll be watching this thread with interest.
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post #5 of 35
1/11/13 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertie View Post

I'm a big fan of Amouage Lyric. I'm currently saving up for a full bottle.

I also love spicy rose scents. I'll be watching this thread with interest.

Isn't it wonderful, Gertie? Lyric just gave me that "ah moment" & I had to splurge. I can tell that this thread is going to do some major damage to my sample budget!!
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post #6 of 35
1/11/13 at 11:14pm
Yep, Lyric Woman it is. Own it. Love it. Backed it up.
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post #7 of 35
1/11/13 at 11:37pm
If you people love Lyric Woman, get the extract. It's on another level.

One of favorite oriental roses that hasn't been mentioned here is Rose Paestum. There's just something attracting about the rose and oily bile-like feature of it.
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post #8 of 35
1/12/13 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post

If you people love Lyric Woman, get the extract. It's on another level.

One of favorite oriental roses that hasn't been mentioned here is Rose Paestum. There's just something attracting about the rose and oily bile-like feature of it.

I know. It is the Extrait I have.
I happened to revisit Paestum Rose two days ago and I have to say that it feels, in particular the base, rather too synthetic for my taste.
I do look forward to the Fille de Berlin.
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post #9 of 35
1/12/13 at 1:37am
I don't remember the dry down right now. It's been a while since RP got into my rotation but its surprising to hear how synthetic you find it because the opening is so natural smelling.

For these types of situations I reserve such perfumes for occasions when I will smell the perfume for a few hours only.
For example if I found RP's DD to be synthetic, I'll reserve it for Friday mornings when I wear a perfume from around 9 to noon then change into lunch attire and spray something else.

I've provisioned a few from my collection for these short outings. Like Idole de Lubin, Iris Pallida! Eau des Iles, Lavender Palm and others that are stellar for only the first few hours.
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post #10 of 35
1/12/13 at 2:22am
hedonist, what are your recs for spicy oriental roses? I've been a bit on the lookout recently, but can't find anything I like the way I like Lyric Woman and Jardin du Nil, which, however, is a 'dirty' rose geranium.
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post #11 of 35
1/12/13 at 7:10am
whimsicaldiva, you have listed some of my favorite roses! I love By Kilian Rose Oud and Ormonde Jayne Ta'if. I agree that Guerlain Rose Nacree du Desert is stunning. The balance between the rose and the oud is very good in it. The rose somehow manages to stay bright.

I also appreciate Amouage Lyric, but I have problems with incense, it seems, so I can't really wear it. Amouage Epic Woman is brighter. I don't know if it's classified as as oriental rose, though, and what I feel in it is more geranium than rose itself.

Keiko Mecheri's Attar de Roses is very nice, too, and easy to wear. It has a touch of amber in it--it's warm and cozy.

Have you tried Trish Mcevoy Black Rose Oud? It is very well developed and somewhat similar to Rose Oud.

I've tried Armani Privé's Rose d’Arabie, and it is okay, but I remember thinking it was a bit one-dimensional and thin. It doesn't have the depth of Rose Oud. It is definitely not as good as Guerlain Rose Nacree du Desert.

I was somewhat disappointed by Tom Ford Cafe Rose: the saffron and the rose actually become more obvious for me in the later stages of development, but the beginning was messy and vaguely chemical.

I am afraid I didn't like Juliette Has a Gun's frags. They seemed a bit crude, especially Midnight Oud. Same for Paestum Rose--no love there.

I'd like to "hear" hedonist's recommendations, too.
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post #12 of 35
1/12/13 at 1:26pm
I'm sorry to bore but yep I second, third and possibly fourth Lyric Woman and OJ Ta'if. Rose d'Arabie is a different beasty. The rose includes some sappiness which makes it fresher.

Jo Malone Rose and Oud is in the same vein but feels like its got an extra spoon of sugar which sets my teeth on edge sadly as its by far the best priced
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post #13 of 35
1/12/13 at 5:34pm
One of the most haunting for me is Opone by Diptyque. I've been crying a sad song about it's demise, and still haven't got over it

It's not beautiful, lyrical, floral, or even feminine. In some ways it's brutal. But it sends shivers up my back, and transports me to another land.

Its big notes are rose and saffron, with dry spices.
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post #14 of 35
1/13/13 at 6:07am
Larimar, I'm also exploring this particular medley.

How about lumierre noir pour homme. The patchouli isn't as intense as in Voleur de Roses.

Rose Poivre by The Different Company also.
Apparently it used to be animalic but not anymore.
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post #15 of 35
1/13/13 at 6:57am
hmmm, I guess Lumiere Noire is not oriental enough? I don't know what age my Rose Poivree sample is, but it is utterly disgusting.
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post #16 of 35
1/13/13 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larimar View Post

hmmm, I guess Lumiere Noire is not oriental enough? I don't know what age my Rose Poivree sample is, but it is utterly disgusting.

Agree with you. Like I said I'm exploring that venue myself.

Utterly disgusting??? You lucky thing!

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larimar View Post

hmmm, I guess Lumiere Noire is not oriental enough? I don't know what age my Rose Poivree sample is, but it is utterly disgusting.

Agree with you. Like I said I'm exploring that venue myself.

Utterly disgusting??? You lucky thing!
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post #17 of 35
1/13/13 at 8:40am
As hedonist was saying, the current Rose poivree is sadly just a nice, clean, straightforward spicy rose (and in the genre not as good as Rose d'homme by Rosine, which is more spicy and more interesting).

cacio
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post #18 of 35
1/13/13 at 11:29am
I don't know if it could be technically classified as oriental, but I liked Cartier Declaration d'un Soir. It is spicy (and remains spicy). It is also pleasantly woody although there is no oud in it (I am not looking for oud at this point.) I am surprised it didn't get more attention.

The problem with genuine oriental roses for me is that while I like the genre, they are not easy to wear. I have Ormonde Jayne Ta'if, for example, and love it, but rarely find the mood or occasion to wear it.

Atelier Rose Anonyme may not fit exactly the definition of oriental rose, but it is very nicely done and worth a sniff if anyone is still looking for a rose-oud combination. It has a soft depth without being heavy in any way. The rose is almost fresh, with velvety rose petals. I think I liked this one better than Keiko Mecheri's Bal de Roses.
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post #19 of 35
1/14/13 at 4:30am
Caron Parfum Sacre, a well-bodied spicy oriental rose, very elegant.
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post #20 of 35
1/14/13 at 7:12am
I also own and adore Noir de Noir. I have a small 10ml bottle of Montale Black Aoud, which, like Whimsicaldiva, I have a difficult relationship with (it sometimes gives me headaches).

I like Yves Rocher Rose Absolut (sweet, spicy, lemony rose) a great deal - Yves Rocher practically give this stuff away.

Agent Provocateur edp is another enjoyably dirty rose - like Rose Poivree, AP also has a slight 'dirty knickers' whiff to it. Not as interesting as Rose Poivree but more wearable (and cheaper).

Concur with all who rate Lyric. Dithered between Epic and Lyric - Epic eventually won out but Lyric is sublime stuff.
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post #21 of 35
1/14/13 at 8:03am
Well, we clearly have this category in common! I own and love most of the ones you've already mentioned - Rose Kashmirie, Noir de Noir, Lumière Noire pour Femme, Rose Oud, Portrait of a Lady, and Midnight Oud are all favorites of mine!

Although they vary in levels of spiciness, and they're not all oriental, but if you don't mind that technicality (or chypres) I do have a few others to suggest. First, there's the discontinued but not-so-hard-to-find L'Arte di Gucci by Gucci ...it'd be worth a bit of a search anyway for its luscious honeyed rose. This is a sultry and dramatic rose chypre, not unlike Ungaro's glamorous Diva, which is still pretty easy to find, but as with everything else that contained oakmoss, the vintage bottles will be better (as long as they've been well kept, obviously.) JHAG's Lady Vengeance is a beautiful, softly spicy rose with vanilla, which has always reminded me of Agent Provocateur that Leontion mentions ...which is in-turn very reminiscent of vintage Coriandre in its fresh herbal spiciness. L'Artisan Safran Troublant is rather soft on the rose, but it's the best saffron (with rose) perfume I know of - I actually pair it with Rose Kashmirie for more of a rosy punch, but it's also absolutely gorgeous on its own. Oh, Estee Lauder's Knowing is another bold and spicy rose chypre I always recommend, but it's very earthy and mossy, even a bit bitter, and isn't everyone's cup of tea ...as always, you should definitely sample these first.
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post #22 of 35
1/14/13 at 3:50pm
I have a question about saffron note in a rose perfume ( or in any perfume for that matter however, it seems to get paired with rose quite often). Anyway, I have never been a huge fan of saffron in the culinary arts. Since I have minimal experience with a variety of perfumes, I would like to know how saffron enhances the rose note. Am looking forward to your replies. Oh, by the way, I am awaiting samples of Mohur and Wild Roses so I imagine I'll get some first hand experience pretty soon. That is, if saffron is included in either of those fragrances.
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post #23 of 35
1/17/13 at 6:57am
I am not an expert, but it seems that the saffron-rose combination is particularly favored in Arabic-style fragrances.

My suggestion would be (although I am sure you've done this) to smell the actual spice. There is variation there, too. The Spanish red saffron, for example, may feel quite pungent, even sharp. When I smelled it, it reminded me very much of Montale White Oud.

The interpretation of saffron in perfumes can be different, too. It could be soft and mellow, reminiscent of pudding, as it is Safran Troublant, so it can give the rose an almost creamy quality. It can be sharper or turn the rose slightly salty, or brighter and "lift" the fragrance, as it is Amouage Epic or Tom Ford Cafe Rose. In Mohur, it is fairly mellow. It can have a "golden" color as it is in Cuir de Lancome. I guess it depends on the other notes that accompany it.
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post #24 of 35
1/18/13 at 9:14am
My favorites are Homage Amouage, Nahema and Rose Barbare.
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post #25 of 35
1/19/13 at 12:07pm
One that has not been mentioned is Rouge by Hermes. It is a very spicy rose oriental, somewhat old fashion. I like it, and a couple of times I almost bought a full bottle, but I don't think I would wear it enough, instead I got a mini. I love Rose Nacre du Desert by Guerlain and Rose Oud by Kilian. I liked Portrait of a Lady, but it was too much on me. I was surprised of how much I loved one version of Idylle with rose and patchouli.
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post #26 of 35
1/19/13 at 12:44pm
I loved Idylle Duet Rose Patchouli too Arwen but don't find it oriental or baroque. Strangely I find it to be the Mama to SJPs Lovely
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post #27 of 35
1/19/13 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
Cheers for all the responses. I'm yet to sample many of the scents mentioned here. I haven't sampled Idylle Duet or Rose Poivree. I went round to Barneys twice in the last three months, but on both occasions they didn't have Rose Poivree. Hell, the SA's were so bloody out of their depth they didn't even know that scent existed in TDC's line up. They seem more interested in flogging Lutens and Byredo and Malle (especially Malle) and Le Labo, compared to brands like Nasomotto or TDC. Oh well. I got the entire sample set of Juliette Has a Gun from their website sometime last year, and with the caveat that I'm yet to test them properly, from the few I did get to test, I found the brand to be a tad ersatz. In that, while the scents were lovely, there was this lingering feeling that it wasn't quite the real deal. I can't quite put a finger on it, but I found the scents to be a tad too perfumy, if you know what I mean. Then again, like I said, I haven't tested the scents properly and will certainly be returning to them in the coming days.
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post #28 of 35
1/19/13 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alityke View Post

I loved Idylle Duet Rose Patchouli too Arwen but don't find it oriental or baroque. Strangely I find it to be the Mama to SJPs Lovely

Thanks for the comment. I may have to get a sample of Lovely. I guess I dismissed it because it was a celebrity scent.
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post #29 of 35
1/19/13 at 11:34pm
Magie Noire, at least the version I have, seems oriental and rose to me, at least today it does. It's a real shape-shifter,
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post #30 of 35
1/20/13 at 3:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwen_elf View Post

Thanks for the comment. I may have to get a sample of Lovely. I guess I dismissed it because it was a celebrity scent.

Apparently SJP is a perfumista and I read she art directed Lovely herself. It's a beautifully blended rose/patch/musk and I admit to having used a couple of 100ml bottles since its release. It may be pink but definitely not a fruity floral. Try Covet and Covet Bloom. Covet is a fougere and green as they come. Not my style but I still recognise its quality
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post #31 of 35
3/2/13 at 5:28pm
A beautiful rose oriental is Histoires de Parfums Rosam, with notes of Rose petals, Citruse, Saffron flowers, Incense, Rose Absolute, Amber, Sandalwood, Patchouli and Oud. I love the rose and saffron combination.
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post #32 of 35
3/2/13 at 8:22pm
I'm sending some more love for OJ's Ta'if. It's fantastic in cold weather, and positively blooms in warm temperatures. I don't know if Madness by Chopard falls under the oriental rose category. It's a bit screechy initially, but settles down into a suedey cashmere-like rose. I'm dying to try Agent Provocateur, it sounds wonderful.
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post #33 of 35
3/2/13 at 9:58pm
My Valentine's day gift was a bottle of Lyric Woman (and Memoir woman, but who's counting eh?)

It's very lovely.
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post #34 of 35
3/3/13 at 5:14am
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@whimsicaldiva - Homage has been altered & no longer contains much rose, some of the old 'white box' batches may do.
Surrati do a nice, everyday, Taif Rose (Wardh Taif) oil, which also has a lovely bottle.
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post #35 of 35
3/13/13 at 5:44am
My first choice in this category is also Ormonde Jayne's Ta'if. So sparkling and just soooo beautiful.

Yesterday I smelt for the first time Rosier Ardente from Nez a Nez. Talking about a spicy oriental rose... It is a sweet(ish) rose with plenty of cinnamon - delicious.

Just like many before me, I also enjoy Rose Poivree a lot, but I have to be in the mood for cumin to wear it.
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