Where to smell the very first original of the classics?

Not sure what you are trying to ask Irina, but I have been to the Osmotheque and have smelled their "original" version of Chanel 5. It was wonderful. The main difference I noticed was the original had a much stronger Orris note; and was much more animalic. Agree completely with your comments about Mitsouko by the way. I envy you getting some from 1923; that must be an experience.

This is why the ongoing EU / IFRA reformulation and outright banning of key ingredients to perfume is such a crime. You're fortunate - most young people will never know what real perfume smells like and therefore have no idea what has been lost.

I don't think the Osmotheque has exactly the first batches, or even the first year of most frags. It was created much later and thus it just got whatever it could. Not that it matters too much, I think, perfumes didn't change that much early on, and famous ones preserved their formula faithfully.

You know better than me, but I think the first significant change in No 5 was the elimination of nitromusks, which happened much later. I can only envy your experience with Mitsouko!

cacio

Osmotheque say that they have many original formulae, and that they try to create them as closely as possible with the ingredients they have. Some things are no longer available, but much is. So it is impossible to know if what they have is truly like the original. They rely on their library of formulations, and any other help they can get. What we smelled when I visited was pretty good. I don't know just how may fragrances Osmoteque has in its vault. They are stored in the dark and at very low temperature. When I was there we smelled about 20 different fragrances including Coty's Chypre, the original Fougere Royale, the original Chanel 5 and the original Vent Vert. All were magnificent.

I don't know if it was possible to recreate these original fragrances and I think we are losing something precious. Indeed I feel we have already lost it. The current version of many classics is a joke, and the manufacturers don't seem to care.

Perfumery is art. Unlike sculptures, paintings, or architecture, it has two failings that make it hard to experience the original artwork. It is dependent on mixtures of chemicals, and some chemicals decompose faster than others, resulting in some deterioration in any fragrance over time. The other problem is that to enjoy a fragrance, it has to be consumed. Beautiful perfumes are worn, breathed, enjoyed, and are gone. Thousands of people can look at the Mona Lisa daily, but if everyone sampled a vintage bottle of Mouchoir de Monsieur, it would be gone in a day. Osmotheque is a great concept. I suppose if you have unlimited resources, you can track down old bottles from estates and collectors...but it won't be easy or inexpensive.

And as far as I am aware Osmotheque is the only place in the world that does this. The only place in the world with such an archive.

How About decants from The Perfumed Court?

How about Decants from Mr. Guerlain's Website?

These both offer historical decants for their prices...

You can also write to me and see what I've bought for my own study and library...

Paul Kiler
PK Perfumes
www.PKPERFUMES.com

I was also going to recommend The Perfumed Court or Surrender To Chance. They may not be the very first versions but I've got some very interesting old perfume samples from them, especially the Guerlains. For example, the original Djedi, which I think was discontinued in the 40s or 50s – a tiny little dab of this and it stays with you all day, wafting up around you, quite powdery – Shalimar from the 60s, Dawamesk, "vintage" (don't know how old) Coty Chypre.

Actually, I also tracked down a tiny sample of the re-released 1996 Djedi and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two samples (on paper, side by side at least). So I guess that's one that ages well.

I agree that buying old perfumes can be very risky, especially seeing the prices some of them go for these days. I've bought a few old bottles of Guerlain Vetiver on eBay (luckily they were fairly cheap) and they had all spoiled somewhat.

I suppose the hardest thing about recreating original classics is finding the formulas. Then the materials. Octavian from the 1000 fragrances blog often writes about this.

[QUOTE=Irina;2818007


I thought so, thank you for the confirmation. Were you as a perfumer ever involved in such project of historical reconstruction?[/QUOTE]

In a very small way, and certainly not with Guerlain. Many years ago I (and other perfumers) had to try and modernise some old formulae from the Crown Perfumery. It was surprisingly difficult. At the time there were very few regulations so that wasn't the problem. It was so hard to reproduce some of the materials used that were no longer available. Doubly difficult now with the added complication of IFRA.

I have been passionate about vintage perfumes for years and have a fairly extensive collection. Even when I shed a perfume, I keep a reference vial as a tiny smell library of my own. The thing I find with some is the sheer difference between one and another of the same when it is vintage. it seems to totally depend how they have been looked after. I sought the real smell of My Sin for a long time before I found one that didn't smell of stale cat wee.

Sometimes even on one that has really lost the plot, if one can bear the first pissy notes for a while, the underneath beauty does eventually emerge, but you have to smell very carefully. I have an old Coty La Rose Jacqueminot like that. Plus others that are tantelisingly sealed in by jammed stoppers. You know it may have saved them so far, but in opening them you know you could be setting them off on a faster path to decay.

If one could create such a library, the problem would be how to allow it to be smelled successfully without loss or further degradation. Also there is a limit on how much can actually be smelled at once and/or in the same place. Testing is expensive unless you can learn how to yourself, and even with the results, the oils are split into fractionated components so a lavender may not present itself as such. I think a nose does a little of the same with enough practice but probably isn't enough without huge experience.

I have tried and tried to re-create one old fave, even with the aid of a test result, and even when the top notes are obtained quite well, it easily slides sideways off track as it dries down because the ingredients are too different even if they were exactly the same name. Always nearly there but not quite.... lol.

It's all good practice.

i think that modern perfumes can be as beautiful as vintage one , there are some really precious gems among contemporary that can be called an art ......Patricia Nicolai for example made piece of art with her L temps du un fette! but her perfumes are not so popular like Amouages

i also dont think that skills in making perfumes have been lost,....and everything that is old is necessary better....its just matter of perception, and sometimes obsession...becasue the beauty of that 1926 Mitsouko i am sure is amplified by it beeing so rare experience!, i am sure if you can buy it everywhere today you would not be so crazy about it and wont stock up 10 bottles .....its like Mona Lisa, somoene can paint Mona Lisa today to enjoy it in his /her room, thats not a problem, but why people dont do it? becasue that exact item is precious and not a copy

thats what i think why it did not happen that perfumes are amsssively beeing recreated becasue people would not buy them! thats not it....also saying artist fromthe past had better skills then modern artist.... .... hard do quanitfy its simply different time

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and one more problem is....artist were rarely recognized in their own times! so today we all know Mitsouko is special thing....its so much easier to look in the past and make statements...then to recognize things as they happen!! thats the essence i think.

hehe i know!......i just love to participate in those sort of discussions since i was thinking about it for some time now and felt i want to share what i think at the moment hehehe , chasing after your vintage theme threads hehehe, psl sorry if i come across like having something against recreating vintages , was just thinking why it did not happen before i am late to perfume world...and people knew about IFRA etc and its all so interesting why those things were not important

......perfumery is so amsuing, its special kind of art, like cooking, you cant enjoy it without using it, and you cant preserve it forever without some special conditions, and you have to be able to recreate it constantly.....do you know this guy in London who makes art from cooking? Bloo, something with B....he recreates ancient meals! which sometimes are awful taste to nowdays people

i thought Osmotheque is a place that trys to preserve perfumes and the heritage, so the idea to have more places like that not just Osmotheque would be great and even beeing able to buy it at some reasonable prices....why not.....

just thinking loud

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i am also so sure it is very much connected with money too.....

so Mona Lisa and that type of art is used as preservation of value....one can not use perfumes for that purpose....becasue they are like food, during the crisis so many of those pictures have been used that way as a ways of investing money....

there are so many things in the world that should be kept alive for future generations to see the beauty , complexity, to enjoy.....the nature versatility beeing as one very obvious! imagine how many old crops have been gone! they have to be recreated over and over again!
i think if you look from that perspective.....tja this is not the worst thing in life and definitely not the only one where we "loose"....much worse is that one day you wont be able to see polar bear, or bengal tiger (and not fougere Bengale , or Amazon woods.....

so i think thats the reason...if money found the opportunity there i am sure it would happen that way, in Mona Lisa every rich man would invest not just the one who understands the beauty

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Jean CLaude Ellena is not rich? i think many of them are rich thats good point about keeping secrets!

My point was only trying to discover why things did not happen, when there are so many enthusiasts...and so many lovers of old perfumes etc.... but they are not good way to store the value, they can go bad gold will never go bad , Mona Lisa as well, they can only get stolen. LOL
the simmilarity with food is in a way that both MUST be consumed no point at looking at perfume

Jean Claude Ellena? ----i think there are some rich guys there...

oh yes keeping secrets!!
forgot about that


perfumes are not good way to store value, they also must be consumed if you want to enjoy them they are not gold , doesnt wear out , nor are they pictures....they dont wear out from looking


btw that Mitsouko that you tried is it more caleidoscopic then some other vintage from 1980? or modern?....and how did you happen to smell it? what you think how much 10ml of it would cost cca ? am very curious ......

such a nice story )

hehe yeah i dont think that woman is even aware of possibility of decanting .....

to me its a miracle she still owns it becasue she cant be that old to have bought it herself!....she must have inherited it from someone, and how they stored it properly!...thats the most amazing thing.....

That's my feeling also.

Osmotheque does not claim to hold the original samples of old fragrances; it claims to construct, as closely as possible, the original formulations. It then stores these reconstructions in the best possible conditions.

Irena, you are always welcome to the UK. I have a mini Osmotheque upstairs...lol