No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013! - Page 3

First of all, the cotton idea was very smart! And I'm the one who received her first compliant package.
The only downside when using this method is the hard work you have to go through to get the piece of cotton out of the vial. I struggled quite a bit with that part. The rest is pretty simple once you've got it out. Just squeeze the juice from the piece of cotton onto your skin and you're set!

Big thanks to @mumsy for sending me the samples, you're my hero!

That can be addressed by obtaining those wider necked vials but I'm not yet convinced of it's true conformity, nor the effect of cotton on perfumes yet. I shall have to soak some for a month alongside a normal sample and see what effect it has.

The issue definitely seems to have come from the CAA and not the Post office. I suspect the PO will be struggling with the sheer loss of business soon. Perhaps the CAA have transport plans for Britain. You can bet your bottom dollar this will be about profit margins and business somewhere along the line. It certainly be nothing to do with safety.

I shall ask again.

@mumsy
Quote:-
'There are no reviews due in July 2013. On January 14 2013, the new rules came into effect for all contract business customers sending larger volumes on account to UK addresses and for all consumers and businesses sending items abroad. On July 15 2013, the new rules will be introduced for consumers and smaller business customers who send smaller volumes to UK addresses.'

But in the previously quoted email to me re. private consumers:-

Perfumes are currently prohibited by dangerous goods regulations and should not be sent to UK addresses. From 15 July 2013, perfumes can be sent in the domestic post as long as certain packaging guidelines are met which includes the volume per item not exceeding 150ml; no more than four items to be sent in any one package and a 'dangerous goods in limited quantities' (ID8000) label being applied.

If you write again, please could you ?why private consumers are not mentioned iro U.K. shipping in sentence two.
In his reply to you Mr. Gee, from this wording, makes it look like the new rules from Jan. only apply to contract clients or both sorts shipping abroad!
Which is not what we were told - we were told that we can't now, but may in July, U.K. only.

Only interested, as it has been my belief that private consumers had not previously been banned from posting scent within the U.K., although they would like us to think that this is the case!

It sounds to me like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing.... tell me a new story there!!!

Hopefully, Mr.Gee's reply will clarify this point as it is an important one.

http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

Hurray! They arrived today - unmolested.

Must have just been the post-pixies being on a go slow

I think that we may safely assume (despite any. info from individual R.M staff) that consumers may not post scent at present.

Mr. Gee @ R.M. Chairman's Office stated in an email that the website is correct, so any updates should be there.

Please note that the potentially confusing aspect of the website is that non-contract customers should ensure that they are looking at 'Consumer' regs, not those for 'Contract/Business' clients, which are different.
Just because you consider yourself a business does not mean that the Contact/Business rules apply to you!

So, if consumers post scent they are currently breaking the law & may be prosecuted.

@Diegros - bet you're relieved!

Please see various other threads & note that @mumsy is currently doing a super job.

N.B. I politely asked via Twitter for clarification yesterday, but they 'lost' my tweet & blocked me!

Oh what an astonishing surprise!!

Well, point was made - for a short while!

Edit 12.35
O.K., seem to have been unblocked, having conversation but they again posted the link 4 contract clients when I asked re. personal ones, so awaiting clarification.

- - - Updated - - -
Edit 13.47
O.K. so their Twitter staff must be the same ones david was talking to on the 'phone the other day! No clue.

My post @0934 appears correct.

Oh yes!

It was worth the wait though!

Further updates here (Male Frag.):-
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/324...ipping-Perfume

and (Industry & General):_
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/325...ipping-Perfume

Suggest updates on regulations/ application of same are posted on those threads in order to save confusion.

The first link (the first posted thread with this name) is hoping for actual service/regs updates, etc.

What if people used surface mail for international items? Whilst I appreciate the ban is unilateral and you'd have to be willing to break it but I'd suspect that surface mail is getting far less scrutiny than the airmail items. Okay it may take longer to get there but at least its more likely to arrive.

Please see other threads quoted above for updates.
As there are so many now, it's difficult to keep all of them up to date without needless duplication & confusion.

Possum pie started a blog & any updates will hopefully be posted there also.

R.M. do not appear to have reached agreement with the the maritime guys either, so any overseas shipping from UK by R.M. is currently banned.

They were x-raying & destroying any suspicious parcels last I heard.

- - - Updated - - -

Please see new thread March 5 edit.

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/327...49#post2866549

This is a big question for many of us at the moment. Personally I've used FedEx successfully for a range of parcels, including HazMat but it certainly isn't easy and it's much too expensive for sending finished perfume and out of the question for samples or decants.

In the last couple of weeks I've had to stop accepting orders for international delivery unless they are large / high value, though as I said in my earlier post, using the labels that have been authorised for contract customers seems to be working for domestic mail, even though in theory those rules don't yet apply to people without contracts (like me).

I'm currently in negotiation with a UK based, family owned company with a worldwide delivery capability to see if we can agree a set of tariffs that will make it possible for me to switch to using them for posting simple bottles of perfume (that are now routinely being destroyed by Royal Mail and USPS). If we come to a good position I've agreed to publicise their service to other perfumers and perfumistas both in the UK and worldwide and I will do that both here and on the Yahoo Group.

It won't ever again be as simple as popping a jiffy bag in the post, but I am hopeful that we will again be able to send each other perfume worldwide.

Thanks for your efforts Chris, fingers firmly crossed

Great to hear there may be a possible solution :-)

Does anyone know where you can buy the ID8000 labels from? I had a delivery from Escentual today with one on the back as an adhesive label but I can only find the sample design as the pdf from RM.

Your local P.O. should have them (free), or you can print them off from the pdf.

Yes, I've seen the PDF but was interested in the adhesive pre-printed ones. Is that what Royal Mail provide at the PO?

Sorry, don't know as I don't need to - could 'phone a P.O.?

If Royal Mail is anything like the USPS, they won't have them. I am sure they can be bought from many places over there. Doing a google search on this side, over 100 suppliers turned up.

Do you have a company named ULine over there? They sell all sorts of packaging and will have it. If not, try Amazon.

Just wondering if anyone knows if it is safe to order samples from "First In Fragrance" in Germany or would any incoming fragrances be destroyed by Royal Mail.

A vexed question still, I think - there are many stories....

I bought a bottle of Anima Dulcis from FiF back in mid February and it arrived okay. Not tried any sample packages from them since but have one on the way from Luckyscent. Will report on outcome.

I believe they use DHL if you are ordering full bottles so that side of things seems fine. It's just their samples that are received by the Royal Mail on our end where their is a big question mark whether they will be destroyed or not. Hope your luckyscent samples get through ok.

i always send as registered airmail and everything arrived in the uk

You're lucky then!

My last parcel from them was sent via DHL in Germany but was dealt with by Parcel Force here. I understand they are also part of the joint statement on dangerous goods in the international mail guide you pick up at the post office so I though they would destroy perfume parcels too. Anyway I will see if my Luckyscent package gets through as you say that will be dealt with by RM so I will keep my fingers crossed and report back.

I though the checks were more on outgoing items than incoming? Royal Mail has a duty to comply with the regulations on all outgoing items as it places other carriers at risk. For items coming in to the country that risk has already been accepted by the foreign national postal service who agreed to allow the post in to the system. From what I understand, RM do not screen in coming parcels in the same way they do outgoing.

I just received a perfume sent from the UK to Australia so it looks like some perfumes are getting through

@FlashingBlade - I really don't know the exact legal (or practically applied) position, but there have genuinely been severe problems reported with outgoing stuff to various destinations overseas coming from members here & overseas and various people at both ends have lost serious amounts of goods.

UPS, Fed-Ex seem to be a good choice in both directions, but expensive.

Chris B. will let us know if a truly reliable & legal solution is found, but I agree with his earlier post #134, which is probably the definitive statement at present.

Sorry not to be more help.

My Luckyscent samples package arrived today all in order and was delivered by RM. So I'm happy to order from outside UK but steering clear of sending any perfume internationally.

Has anyone tried to mail samples within the UK recently?

l've got some l want to give away on the "free to a good home" thread, but l'm concerned as to whether they would arrive safely.

Apologies if this question has already been asked, but l'd really like to hear of any recent experiences with this, positive or negative, & any tips people can give. Thanks in advance!

I have had quite a few samples and a few bottles arrive fine from ebay and Les Senteurs through the normal mail . Checking the Royal Mail website today it seems to be saying that business customers can send items as long as each item is not over 150ml and no more than four items in one package. They do not mention any restrictions for personal customers within the UK if you click on "restricted goods for personal customers' page" only if you are sending international.

http://www.royalmail.com/business/he...stricted-goods

Thanks Jack, l couldn't find that page before, that site is so darned difficult to navigate!

The website is still saying perfumes are prohibited goods within the UK. Perfumes are not mentioned on the restricted page because they are prohibited, not restricted.

http://m.royalmail.com/mt/www.royalm...ohibited-Goods

The above is for personal mail users only. Businesses are still allowed to send up to 4 bottles per package.

I would be delighted to be corrected about personal use. This is so depressing.

I have received samples from eBay sellers last week but I imagine once word gets around people will become reluctant to conduct private sales for postage. Shrug

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk 2

I think that part of the confusion is maybe because Ebay (when they finally found out) seem to have negotiated special terms with RM so that Ebay Business sellers qualify for a special R.M. business a/c applying to lower volume users than usual.

This may be adding to the confusion.

I agree that 'consumers' (non a/c RM users) should consult the 'Prohibited' section, but believe that we'll all be treated the same from some time in July, maybe.

And suggest registering for a Google News Alert for 'Royal Mail Industrial Action' in the mean-time.

What industrial action is this?

I'm not aware of anything in the offing.......

http://catalog-biz.com/news/Union-re...ycott_4158.asp

Might cause a bit of chaos to 'normal' deliveries?

Thanks, lpp.

Reading the article, it seems a pretty feeble excuse for industrial action to me, though.

I don't think that Privatisation is a very popular move....

I agree, but that's another debate...... and some of the flack that Royal Mail has been getting in this and other similar threads might indicate that others think differently.

In any case, privatisation and de-regulation aren't the same thing.

And finally, I think we are drifting off topic here....

Yeah, sorry, meant for their staff

RM document title:
Prohibitions and restrictions in the domestic and international post
A guide for Royal Mail contract and account customers
Valid from 14th January 2013

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/defau...ooklet_TAG.pdf

Page 31

Perfume and aftershave
(including eau de parfum and eau de toilette but excluding
non-flammable perfumed creams, gels, oils or lotions)
UK destinations: Yes
International destinations: No
Follow these packaging guidelines:
Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four
perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package. The
perfume or aftershave must be within its original retail packaging
and then placed in strong outer packaging. The inner packagings
must be packed, secured or cushioned to prevent breakage or
leakage of their contents into the outer packaging. An ID8000
label must be applied (see page 40). The sender’s name and
return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
These items may only be sent using our 1st Class or 2nd Class
products paid for via franking or on account (VAT exempt 1st and
2nd Class Account Mail), Special Delivery™ paid for via franking or
on account, Royal Mail Tracked® and Royal Mail Sameday®. Please
note Royal Mail Tracked Returns®, Business Response, Freepost™
and all variants of Packetpost™ and Packetsort™ are excluded.

I was considering doing an Aventus split on ebay as a business seller but seems a little too risky now...

This will put a dent in so many businesses! It's almost becoming so extreme, I do not understand what the reasons are, if they were that severe then they would have put a stop to this a while ago, I had sent perfumes abroad, some couriers would refuse to take the parcel as they would check inside the boxes everything it contained once it arrived at the depot, but other companies, including Royal Mail would send the goods, often I'm guessing, unknowing what was inside. I think if they do not know what is inside, they send the goods anyway, as they aren't really checked! EBay/Amazon sales will be hit, shame!

I thought I'd give a quick update on the position as far as I've been able to ascertain:

This is the definitive description from this Royal Mail leaflet, though there are all sorts of confusing things on their website:

Notice that if you buy your postage online you can send perfume within the UK, but not if you just put stamps on it or pay over the counter at the Post Office. How that improves the safety of anything or anyone is a mystery known only to Royal Mail but it means, in effect, that anyone can be treated as a business customer for this purpose. I can tell you from experience that doing so and using the correct label (see below) does work and items are delivered no problem.
Attachment 20785
For international deliveries it is pointless to attempt to send anything via Royal Mail or Parcelforce as they are all scanned before leaving the UK and will just be destroyed.

My negotiations with The Courier Company resulted in a prices of the order of £35 for European destinations and £50 for further afield. In addition it is necessary to restrict quantities to 30ml or less per container (though you can have up to 10 containers in the package) and to use a (different) hazard label on the package as well. This makes sending a 100ml bottle of perfume pretty impractical and expensive, though not impossible (you send it with 10ml in the bottle plus three 30ml plastic containers with the rest).

In practice it remains possible to use services such as DHL, FedEx and others for international deliveries and these can sometimes prove more economic.

On Les Senteurs Facebook page the other day someone asked about international shipping?

The reply was Les Senteurs had found a courier BUT it would cost £45 on top of the perfumeprice to ship. Therefore they where still looking into international shipping.

I cannot imagine anyone willing to pay £45 for shipping!!!!!

We seem to only be left with the ancient idea of a 'mule' system. Maybe anyone moving around can take perfumes with them. How much perfume is one person allowed to actually carry abroad? I will look it up later.

 

Perhaps an announcement on a thread if anyone plans to shift and carry others stuff.... How one gets around wierdos for that idea or the inconvenience for a stranger and for nothing - I don't know. Perhaps we all have to negotiate in a clandestine way amongst friends and family for carriers......

 

Modern internet.... ancient system of export. Shall we buy some real mules with laden saddles?

So it looks like sending fragrances abroad from the UK is pretty much dead in the water at the moment...

 

One thing that wasn't clear to me: is the situation the same if ordering a fragrance from abroad to be delivered to a UK address? That is, is it likely that Royal Mail will destroy the package once it reaches the UK, or given that (presumably) Royal Mail aren't responsible for the package until it reaches the UK, is there a good chance the package will arrive safely?

Simple answer

 

No.

 

Your package is not safe in the slightest. Some may get through but it is at your own risk and more than likely prohibited. You need to comb the rules of each country with a fleacomb. Sad but true.

http://www.royalmail.com/business/help-and-support/tell-me-about-restricted-goods

 

seems like it could actually be okay as long as you comply with these rules

Thanks. Guess I'll just be buying in the UK from now on...

Its always good to follow the trace of money yes, majority of people away from this site buys perfumes in shops!!!
Only minority has interest to trade online.....
But why are you so especially upset?

I dont see you swap nor buy much, according to your feedbacks.

Read forum rules, this is not place for economy discussions, nor politics...there are other places where you can spread your anger!

That's the conclusion I have drawn too. Unfortunately!

Incoming to G.B. by Fed-Ex is fine, in my recent experience with oils from EEC, no idea about alcohol-based, but they are Hazmat licensed afaik.

UPS same.

 

Some EEC online retailers have contracts so are able to ship here.

 

Anything that is sent  'EMS' is delivered by the relevant country's Government postal service and may or may not arrive.

 

It appears that DHL may be delivered in the same way as EMS, depending on their distribution network, not sure about U.K. as I don't buy from anyone who uses it.

 

There is a U.S. retailer who can ship from a U.K. warehouse, but VAT is added to U.K. orders.

Edited by lpp - 5/18/13 at 12:09pm