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Unique Astringency question

post #1 of 19
2/12/13 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Among the almost 200 frags. I have sampled...there are a rare few that have the same unique astringency. I LOVE astringent frags. In my collection there is Gerhard Steidl PAPER PASSION, Ramon Monegal DRY WOOD, Montale DARK AOUD, ...It isn't a particular smell like floral or citrus...it is PURE MEDICINAL!! Anyone smell each of the above and can help me pick out the one ingredient...
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post #2 of 19
2/12/13 at 7:28pm
I don't smell anything medicinal in Dark Aoud.
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post #3 of 19
2/12/13 at 7:32pm
Likely to be sandalwood.
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post #4 of 19
2/12/13 at 10:36pm
It has to be a resin or an accord of resins.

Try the following:

Sarassins
La Myrrhe
Tubereuse Criminelle
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post #5 of 19
2/12/13 at 10:47pm
I think of castoreum as astringent, in vintage Salvador Dali Pour Homme.
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post #6 of 19
2/13/13 at 3:51am
Thread Starter 
I withdraw my mention of Dark Aoud, the sharp tangy note is there, lurking, BUT in Paper Passion and Ramon Monegal Dry Wood, it is the forefront note. I can't understand why no one in any of their reviews even mentions it. It is the elephant in the room. The notes of Paper Passion are: osmanthus, copaiba balsam, amber accord, air accord, paper accord, musk accord
THe notes of Dry Wood are: Cedar Bark, Bay, Pepper, Green Moss, Savory, Cedar, Cashmere, Norlimbanol. I am not seeing a commonality, but that Dr. Office kind-of-rubbing alcohol, sharp very pleasant dry scent is there in both...
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post #7 of 19
2/13/13 at 6:37am
I haven't smelled them, so I wouldn't know, but it sounds like it is some kind of modern synthetic woody-amber, because these materials are often described as "rubbing alcohol", usually in a negative way. This one could be a particularly good and pleasant woody amber, but who knows which one.

cacio
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post #8 of 19
2/13/13 at 7:04pm
I have only smelled Dark Aoud (and I noticed that you took it off of the list). Isn't the real astringent scent in that one the Oud? I love that smell! I actually have it on my scarf right now from a few days ago and it is mesmerizing!
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post #9 of 19
2/20/13 at 5:53pm
Eau De Baux has this vibe on the initial spray. Very good Vanilla.
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post #10 of 19
2/21/13 at 7:52am
You should send a message to Basenotes legend odysseusm. That's a man who loves his astringent medicinal!
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post #11 of 19
2/21/13 at 8:03am
Does it smell like sticking plaster? Or extremely dry timbery parchmenty?
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post #12 of 19
2/21/13 at 8:22am
I don't equate 'astringent' to 'medicinal', imo the former sharper and much more transient than the latter. Could you tell a little more about this astringent aspect? How long does it last?

Note lists are simple approximations, they tell nothing of the actual chemicals used in the formulation. Having tried the Monegal I suspect synthetic woods (cedar, woody ambers, norlimbanol) to be the collective culprit with the dry scratchy/ spiky undertones. But I wouldn't exactly call it astringent.
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post #13 of 19
2/21/13 at 8:33am
Gerhard Steidl PAPER PASSION:-
Back in his lab, Schoen worked on nailing the scent, and sourcing the necessary ingredients. “It was hard,” he admits. “The smell of printed paper is dry and fatty; they are not notes you often work with.” But the art of perfumery is to hold a catalogue of aromas in your head, and he eventually managed to locate the most relevant, and managed to round out the scent with just four or five ingredients, including ethyl linoleate and a selection of woody ingredients to add dryness. Most perfumes are more likely to contain between 20 and 100, but Schoen stuck to his vision of simplicity.
So four/five ingredients including Ethyl linoleate (mild fatty fruity)
and selection of dry woodys...

some papery sorts and I'm completely guessing here. Don't quote me for the real ingredients.
amber formate (dry woody amber dusty powdery)
cedarwood or type of
guaiacwood (sweet dry woody spicy powerful)
timber propanol (dry sawdust woody powdery amber sandalwood)
ambroxan perhaps (ambergris sub)

Ramon Monegal DRY WOOD
FG perfume notes
citron, bay leaf, pepper, moss, sandalwood, cedar, cashmeran, amber, woody notes and satureja.
Others mention
Norlimbanol - dry like patchouli uber longevity

Montale DARK AOUD
Frag notes off here
Sandalwood, Oud, Black Pepper, Saffron, Vetiver, Teak, Leather, Grey Amber
FG notes
sandalwood and agarwood (oud).

If paper-ish astringent, I'm guessing cedarwood or types of synthetic woods.
They have a resinous quality and a medicinal citrus nuance without citrus.

If plaster-ish, then a good oudh would have that about it and a synth would emulate that with something similar to sweet birch.

It could be an accord of woods/ambergris in a good balance perhaps.
This is utter guesswork and could be way off.
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post #14 of 19
2/22/13 at 7:50am
Gerhard Steidl PAPER PASSION, Ramon Monegal DRY WOOD, Montale DARK AOUD.

The only thing similar in these fragrances is that they're all extremely heavy on woodyamber (a mix of IsoESuper, Norlimbanol and only god knows which other)....
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post #15 of 19
2/22/13 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

Gerhard Steidl PAPER PASSION:-
[I][COLOR="#0000CD"]
Ramon Monegal DRY WOOD
FG perfume notes
citron, bay leaf, pepper, moss, sandalwood, cedar, cashmeran, amber, woody notes and satureja.
Others mention
Norlimbanol - dry like patchouli uber longevity

Montale DARK AOUD
Frag notes off here
Sandalwood, Oud, Black Pepper, Saffron, Vetiver, Teak, Leather, Grey Amber
FG notes
sandalwood and agarwood (oud).

If paper-ish astringent, I'm guessing cedarwood or types of synthetic woods.
They have a resinous quality and a medicinal citrus nuance without citrus.

If plaster-ish, then a good oudh would have that about it and a synth would emulate that with something similar to sweet birch.

It could be an accord of woods/ambergris in a good balance perhaps.
This is utter guesswork and could be way off.

I agree Mumsy, some oud smells like "Band-Aids" or what you Brits call a "plaster" What I smell in Dry Wood and Paper Passion is a "sterile" top note that lasts throughout. When I was a child in 1970, I went to get an injection at the Dr. office. I vividly remember the office smelling of exactly the same thing. It isn't Isopropyl Alcohol, but sort of a mix between tongue depressor wood, and some kind of alcohol disinfectant that has a additively nice clean, sharp smell. There is a hint of it in Molocule 01, but it isn't woody in that case... in other words Iso E Super may play a role, but isn't it entirely..
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post #16 of 19
2/23/13 at 11:14am
I have some Norlimbanol. I have just smelled it for you and I strongly suspect it may be that alone. It is dry papery woody with a sharper acidic quality. I shall send you some to smell on it's own if you like.
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post #17 of 19
2/23/13 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

I have some Norlimbanol. I have just smelled it for you and I strongly suspect it may be that alone. It is dry papery woody with a sharper acidic quality. I shall send you some to smell on it's own if you like.

That would be great...Norlimbanol does show up in the notes/ingredients of Dry Wood by Ramon Monegal
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post #18 of 19
2/23/13 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsy View Post

I have some Norlimbanol. I have just smelled it for you and I strongly suspect it may be that alone. It is dry papery woody with a sharper acidic quality.

One of the most aggressive, tenacious (and possibly the driest) aromachemical around. Once you smell it, it's unmistakeable. I'm positive it must be it that he smells in those fragrances.
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post #19 of 19
2/23/13 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Chris Bartlett had a great thread awhile back on Norlimbanol, I went back and re-read it.
http://www.basenotes.net/threads/295...banol-Timberol
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