The eBay sellers do what they want

Originally Posted by PerfumeCollector

In your case you should take advantage of "ebay buyer protection". They will refund your money and shipping costs it you are unhappy with your purchase. Plus, they will punish the seller that falsely advertized.

Originally Posted by bgoc

Can you just not buy a leather jacket for your bottle? I agree it's cold but then if you switch the heating on, the bottle may not need it in the end.

I guess leather jacket has been removed considering the summer seasons.

Originally Posted by PerfumeCollector

In your case you should take advantage of "ebay buyer protection". They will refund your money and shipping costs it you are unhappy with your purchase. Plus, they will punish the seller that falsely advertized.

Originally Posted by Georgio

Second time this year that I am receiving a different product than the one that was advertised.
First I bought Zine Davidoff; advertised in the old packaging and I received a brand new product.
Today I received Habit Rouge parfum. Ordered was the Limited Edition bottle covered with the red leather, I received a regular glass bottle. The price was US$ 129.- + shipping to europe + 35 euro import duty and tax.
What a waste, I stop with these eBay sellers. I am sure some of you must have had the same experience.

Originally Posted by JiveHippo

What is in the picture doesn't really matter, what matters is the description. I've seen listings on ebay for a 2.5oz bottle of Green Irish Tweed but the picture shows a 4oz bottle. If i order this, should I expect to receive a 4oz bottle even though the listing clearly states the auction is for a 2.5oz? Sellers should be more responsible and use photos of the exact item, but this is not always the case. Often times stock photos are used. Now if the description did state that it came in a leather casing, well that's another story.

Originally Posted by smellgood4u

What is in the picture is what the buyer should expect to get.

Imagine an auction for a Ford Mustang with a picture of a Mustang, but in the details in small print it says Ford Focus. Is that legal?

Fraud is no different with fragrances. Sellers can not show a picture of a vintage fragrance and sell a modern fragrance, but sellers do this. It is fraud. If the headline says Kouros and the picture is a bottle with a metal base, then that is older Kouros and not the new all white bottle Kouros. Sellers have to use accurate pictures. They can't send an all white bottle when the picture is a metal base with different juice inside. That is fraud. Sellers know it is fraud. The problem is nobody sues sellers. Everyone uses ebay for disputes.

There are many solutions to this problem. You don't need to rely on ebay to fix what is fraud. A good lawyer in the USA will get back costs plus $1000 for each instance of fraud. If more buyers sued sellers there wouldn't be fraud.

I emailed one seller back and forth several times trying to determine if they were selling modern or vintage. Every answer was deceptive and questions were never directly anwsered. If I asked "Does the bottle have a metal base like in the sellers photo?", the reply would be"It is 100% authentic and sealed in the box.". That doesn't anwser the question. The only fact to go on is the picture, and if the seller sends a different item, hire a lawyer and sue for damages, plus an additional $1000 for fraud, plus legal fees. Lawyers will also get the buisness and home address of the seller, and the lawyers can contact appropriate law enforcement that can send forensic accountants to determine where the seller obtained their products (to determine if it is vintage or not) and whom the seller sold to. If it's over a certain dollar amount, it becomes a felony.

Originally Posted by barclaydetolly

I think the simplest way is to use the paypal dispute resolution function, which seems to work really well.

If you can find an attorney to handle the fraud aspect, that's great, but as information remember that (1) fraud laws vary widely from state to state, (2) filing a suit against a person in another state based on an Ebay sale is fraught with potential legal issues (from personal jurisdiction to venue to the measure of damages to the recovery potential), and (3) in my (very, very limited) experience, local authorities are often hesitant to get involved without very compelling facts. But sure, any potential means of recovery should be investigated, especially if for some reason Ebay/paypal doesn't give relief. I just would be pessimistic about devoting a lot of time and energy into a potential fraud suit. Unless I was REALLY pissed.

On the other hand, I was once contacted by an Assistant United States Attorney halfway across the country who notified me that a piece of computer software I had purchased on Ebay was actually a stolen item, and the seller had been indicted as part of a huge interstate theft case. The AUSA offered to include me in the case as a potential victim entitled to restitution. I declined, because the software had worked and I didn't need to return it as evidence. But it was nice to see the feds policing that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by smellgood4u

All 50 states have adopted the Uniform Commercial Code which governs sales and frauds. The law is the same from state to state.

I would sue in my state, the buyers state, and force the seller to represent himself in my state. The seller can pay the cost of traveling to my state and staying in a hotel in my state. If the seller doesn't come to my state, there is a good chance that without a defense the courts would rule against the seller. The next step would be to take that judgement and enforce it in the sellers state.

Criminal prosecution is a different matter. Having a conviction in state civil court often will give the police reason enough to investigate the fraud as a crime. Locals may not have the means to investigate, so complaining to the attorney general of the state often helps. The AG will have the resources to send an accountant along with search warrents to determine how much fraud has occured.

The mistake buyers make is thinking nobody in law enforcement will care over a $80 sale. What buyers fail to realize is these sellers may have sold 1000 times over the same fraud. To the state, it will not be an $80 fraud, it will be a $80,000 fraud that was comitted 1000 times.

Originally Posted by smellgood4u

The mistake buyers make is thinking nobody in law enforcement will care over a $80 sale. What buyers fail to realize is these sellers may have sold 1000 times over the same fraud. To the state, it will not be an $80 fraud, it will be a $80,000 fraud that was comitted 1000 times.

Originally Posted by barclaydetolly

I think the simplest way is to use the paypal dispute resolution function, which seems to work really well.

Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel

ebay is absolutely horrible when it comes to protecting customers or even their own sellers. They have a fleet of lawyers, but their lawyers are only there to protect ebay, not to protect ebay customers or sellers.

I was sold what turned out to be an OBVIOUS fake. I documented it and sent that to ebay. They decided I could have my money back if I returned the fake to the seller, meaning the seller could sell it again. In fact, there was physical evidence on the fake that showed it had probably already been sold and returned multiple times. I sent ebay the evidence. They didn't care. There was NO WAY I was going to return the fake to the seller. That would be me taking part in screwing over someone else (because the seller would sell it again). No way.

The seller admitted the item was a fake in ebay correspondence. I forwarded those messages to ebay. ebay didn't care.

The seller offered me free merchandise in exchange for a 5 star review. That's against ebay rules. I forwarded those messages to ebay. ebay didn't care.

When sending me the fake, the seller included a business card with an ebay ID that didn't match the ID I bought from. I looked into it and, of course, it was a banned ID. ebay was able to find the seller had at LEAST 4 banned IDs, but they didn't do anything about it and they let the seller keep on selling.

ebay does not care.

I was so fed up with the idea of returning the fake to the seller to get my money back that I took it to the police instead. I live in a city that has an internet crimes department (which may just be 1 or 2 officers, but it's awesome to have it!). The officer confiscated the fake and gave me documentation, which I then gave to ebay to finally get my frigging refund. But did ebay do anything about the seller? NOPE. They let the seller keep on selling.

ebay does not care.

There are so many wonderful sellers on ebay. It's such a shame ebay treats them so poorly by allowing fraudulent sellers to sell there too. If there were a better, safer, alternative to ebay, ebay would make safety a priority. But there isn't, so they don't. They don't because, as far as they're concerned, profits from fraudulent sellers are just as good as profits from honest sellers. It's all about dollars to them. The bottle I was sold didn't even have watered down perfume in it. It had what smelled like chlorine.

Even with police documentation, plus documentation from Dior showing the item was a fake, and even though the seller admitted she sold me a fake and already had multiple banned ebay IDs (!!!), ebay let the seller keep on selling. ebay doesn't care.

In my opinion, the only thing that works is finding a police department with an internet crimes department and let them handle it. They'll actually be glad you did. I was sold fake Fahrenheit. The officer I spoke with already had a contact with Dior. He told me a few stories about some of the fakes he'd already seen. Go to the police. Have the item "confiscated" (which basically means swapping it for a police receipt). Fax ebay the police receipt form and they'll issue the refund. Beyond that, I doubt there's anything that can be done. ebay simply does not care.

I'd love it if honest sellers ganged up on ebay with some sort of lawsuit in order to force ebay to permanently ban fraudulent sellers. Like I said, when I gave ebay the police receipt showing the item was a fake and had been confiscated, I also asked that they look up the seller's multiple IDs and write that down on the case I had open. They did. The seller had multiple banned IDs. ebay issued me the refund (after months of hassle!) but they let the seller keep on selling. That's Effing Crazy.

ebay does not care.

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THIS!!!!

The other mistake buyers make is believing they have to send the fake back to the seller to get a refund. THEY DON'T. If you send the item back, you become part of the cycle that ends up screwing over the next person to receive the fake. Take it to the police. Have it confiscated. Send the police receipt to ebay. Even that won't get the seller banned (because ebay really IS that corrupt), but it'll get you your money back without giving the seller the chance to sell it again, and it'll at least put a black mark in the seller's file with ebay that may someday force ebay to eventually someday maybe ban them (but seriously, ebay doesn't care).

I should also add: I've lad some very good purchases on ebay. I still use ebay, though I'm more careful now. I'm just shocked by how little protection there is for customers there. They talk about customer protection, but that's just marketing. ebay doesn't protect customers by having them return fake goods to the seller so the seller can sell them again. Could you imagine if brick and mortar stores did a recall only to then put the recalled goods back on the shelves? ebay's business practices are really horrible.

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That's what I did and it didn't work for me at all. ebay and paypal are co-owned, but the lawyers do a good job of keeping them separate entities to protect each from the fraud committed on and by the other. It was only after going through round after round with ebay and then with paypal that I finally gave up and went to the police. In an instant, months of fighting with ebay and paypal suddenly ended and I got a refund so fast your head would spin. Not because ebay and papal gave a damn. They just wanted to protect themselves and wash their hands of it. I fought with ebay and paypal for months. After going to the police, documentation of my 100% refund was almost immediate.

Originally Posted by Georgio

I am accepting a 35% discount on the order, but to get that, I first have to give positive feedback.
These sellers are always on the winning side.
It's the only way to go since I paid already the import duty and transport. No way to get that back.
I find this such a unpleasant experience that I do give up on buying vintage from eBay sellers,
I am sure that if I was located in the same country as the seller, instead of the other side of the world,
I would have gotten the right product.

Originally Posted by smellgood4u

Is it against the rules to ask for positive feedback in exchange for a discounted price?

Originally Posted by smellgood4u

I would have saved that request for positive feedback by using a screen capture.

Originally Posted by TLS

Buy retail.

Originally Posted by JiveHippo

"Retail is for suckers"

-Cosmo Kramer

Originally Posted by Georgio

Super member??

Originally Posted by Renaissance_Man

Always verify if the picture is of actual item, whether box is sealed vs no/tester/plain box etc. before making purchase.
Otherwise as stared above you can always dispute or return if returns are accepted.

Originally Posted by david

Sorry to hear about your problems Georgio.
I buy a lot of stuff on ebay. Until now most of the problems I have had were concerning the miniature bottles. I'm not into collecting mini's, but sometimes it's a good way.(sometimes also the only way) to sample the really rare old stuff. I would say that approximately 80% of the minis I bought were empty flacons filled with either pure alcohol, a different "cheap" perfume or vodka. It was very disheartening and some, such as Patou Pour Homme Sikkim etc, were over €30 each. In the case of Patou Pour Homme I bought 4 from different sellers. All were filled with fake juice. I have learned my lesson now and steer clear of minis, but over the years I probably spent about €200 on fake juice.

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.....and while we're on the subject of ebay, please can somebody answer this question.....
I am baffled at the fact there is no close, "big" rival/competitor to ebay. Why is this ???.......ebay is ovbiously extremely successful ~ so why hasn't anyone copied the ebay model ? I mean it happens with cheap airlines.....
and for that matter why isn't there a rival for paypal, (GANGSTERS)! ?