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Using Pre Diluted materials And a Fractionated Coconut oil question

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Hi! Can anyone tell me if fractionated coconut oil will dissolve in ethanol, or perfumers alcohol? Will it dissolve in DPG? Can you use DgG as a perfume spray, same as alcohol?

I ask the above because I have considered buying some of the more expensive absolutes and oils, like rose, sandalwood, etc. in 10% dilutions and the seller uses fractionated coconut oil for diluting them.

My other concern in using pre-diluted materials is how they will work when it comes time to make my final fragrance concentrate before adding alcohol to get perfume, cologne, etc.

It is my understanding, and I could be wrong on this, that if I only use materials that are already diluted to 10%, and use that as my final concentrate,and then dilute it to get desired perfume strength, then the highest perfume strength I could possibly reach is EDT or Cologne. Now, if I make my test formulas from diluted materials, figure the actual percent of those materials on the formula and the mix my concentrate accordingly with undiluted materials, I should be able to dilute with alcohol to make any type of perfume concentration.

I set this all up for you just to ask, if I only have 10% Dilution of, say Rose Otto, how would I treat this in my final, not test, fragrance concentrations. Will I need to make adjustments somehow or will the oil have a strong enough scent to be ok? The same goes for pre-diluted 1% of things that are REALLY strong, like civet.

I really need this info mostly for rare florals, woods and super strong aroma chemicals. Are the florals and woods, like sandalwood, strong enough to hold up even when used diluted?


I hope this makes sense...thanks for any insight you have to give.
post #2 of 9
I may be wrong but I don't think fractionated coconut oil will dissolve in alcohol or DPG.

When I was a Perfumer the only time I used a solvent (any solvent) was when I was using materials that were very strong, and could not be used at 100.0% concentration, and so needed to be diluted; or when I used materials that were very viscous and needed to be diluted so they could be used more easily. I do not understand the tendency to dilute just about everything before compounding; it really isn't necessary.
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Hi David, thank you. They only reason I am diluting first is so I dont waste a bunch of my material experimenting. I am a hobbyist, And a beginner at that, so I can't afford to buy new stuff all the time. I wouldn't pre-dilute my entire stock, just a bit to play with. Any final formulations would be made from the pure stock I keep aside. But, some materials are so costly, that if I can work with them in dilutions, it would help financially and yet still enable me to use some beautiful naturals. I am saddened that so many perfumes have been reformulated due to high cost materials, as they seem to lose a bit of their richness in the process. For me, so far, I haven't smelled any synthetic sandalwood that comes close to the real thing, but then i havent sampled any aroma chemicals yet. I just ordered some sandaxol, so I will see soon if it is a nice replacement.
post #4 of 9
OK I understand. Of course, if you have limited supplies then it is better to dilute. It is a shame that you are buying oils already pre diluted in coconut oil, it is not the best solvent to use. You may have solubility problems.
post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
David, fortunately I haven't bought them yet. I wanted to check here first. I will probably buy the size I can afford in full strength and then dilute with alcohol as needed. A bit more expensive at first, but more options in the long run! Thanks again for your reply.
post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkincoach View Post

David, fortunately I haven't bought them yet. I wanted to check here first. I will probably buy the size I can afford in full strength and then dilute with alcohol as needed. A bit more expensive at first, but more options in the long run! Thanks again for your reply.

Glad to hear it. Much better to buy the concentrated oils and dilute yourself. Ethanol or Dipropylene Glycol (DPG) are both good.
post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post

I may be wrong but I don't think fractionated coconut oil will dissolve in alcohol or DPG.

I have tested this and can confirm that FCO is not miscible with ethanol, DPG or PG. It will mix with IPM (isopropyl myristate) though.
post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 
Chris,
Thank you! I just ordered a kit that came with IPM. Are there disadvantages to using IPM instead of ethanol? If not, that may be a better choice given the financials. I am weighing all my options at this point, before spending too much.
post #9 of 9
IPM and ethanol are very different - IPM is oily, fairly thin but definitely not sprayable and acts as a fixative. Ethanol is very volatile, can be sprayed even with a high concentration of oils in it and acts as a dispersal agent, helping to get the fragrance out into the air further and more quickly.

So I don't think you can substitute one for the other really. If you want to make a conventional spray perfume then ethanol is by far the best option. Cyclomethicone (a mixture of dimethicones now mostly sold as such) is capable of being sprayed and is sometimes used as a replacement for ethanol but it carries the risk that it will make an oily mark on clothes, does not have the cooling effect on the skin that ethanol has and is more expensive.
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